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Angels, 9 Choirs, and Fallen Angels Genesis 6, and the Rapes?

GoldenKingGaze

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Greetings GoldenKingGaze. Hope and peace to you and yours.


It doesn't explicitly speak to what Peter is talking about in the Book of Enoch. It is simply deductive reasoning from 1Enoch 15:8-12 and 16:1 and others.

Angel Advocates believe, because of the Book of Enoch, that fallen angels procreated with human women and bore Nephilim. Nephilim, according to the Book of Enoch are a cross breed, neither angel nor human, creature that are born both "evil spirit" and flesh. When they are said to have died, their evil spirits remained on earth and became what they, the Angel Advocate, would call spirits/demons (those that posses humans found in the NT). In other words, when the flood killed their fleshly bodies their evil spirits now just roam the earth (see reference verses above).

So if Nephilim don't go where humans go after death and it explicitly states in the Book of Enoch that the Nephilim spirits stay on earth after death to roam and cause problems...then it follows they did not go to tartaroō. Therefore, they are not the "spirits in prison" in which Peter speaks.

Some people think, even some that don't believe in angels procreating with humans, that the "spirits in prison" (1Pet 3:19) are the fall angels that were chained. Those angels are clearly "in prison". Although this could be a possibility, where the Nephilim theory is clearly wrong, I don't hold that they are even the fallen angels that are chained. But thats another discussion.


It didn't bother me. I'm just a "let's get to the truth of the matter" kind of guy. ;)


This appears to be a lot of trivia with little applicable evidence.

First you say, "So...". Im taking that your "So" means, given the evidence I just presented. If that is the case, then what I previously wrote applies, that is, what you gave wasn't evidence that was of any value toward drawing your conclusion (imo).

In regard to the question you appear to be answering, "would a human woman be a willing participant in any sexual experience outside the human race?". The answer to that question appears to be a clear, yes. Isn't there a thing called bestiality? There would seem to be all sorts of things, animate and inanimate, that human beings engage with.

But that truth aside, that doesn't then mean fallen angels procreated with human women.


Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure (Prov 2:1-6)
Personally I don't take to the non canon books and I think hypothetically if there were cross breeds that they would have a super sinful nature but still have a chance. Especially after Jesus sacrifice. My interpretation is that they were the worst sinners and Jesus preached to them between death and resurrection.
 
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Paleouss

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Greetings GoldenKingGaze. Peace to you brother

I think hypothetically if there were cross breeds that they would have a super sinful nature but still have a chance.
I agree that there seems to be a logical argument that can be had here. According to the Book of Enoch the Nephilim were a crossbreed creature that was created evil to be evil. Beside the fact that the Holy Scripture says that God created all things, and created all things good, first. It seems rational to think that if one moral agent procreates with another moral agent then the product would be another moral agent. But that is not the account in the Book of Enoch. Yet another reason to question the Book of Enoch.

My interpretation is that they were the worst sinners and Jesus preached to them between death and resurrection.
1 Peter 3:19 is a difficult text, imo. It seems clear what it is not, i.e., the Nephilim theory. But various views have some good points. Are the spirits in 1Pet 3:19; (1) those flood generation humans through which Christ preached through Noah (1Pet 2:5) setting them free, or (2) those imprisoned flood generation humans to whom Christ "preached" after descending into hell, or (3) all those who died before Christ's victory, or (4) are they those fallen angels imprisoned (2Pet 2:4) to which Christ is proclaiming victory.

I lean toward Isaiah 61:1 having some influence on the reading of Peter.

(Isa 61:1 NKJV) 1 "The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon Me, Because the LORD has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives, And the opening of the prison to [those who are] bound;”.

The Savior is prophesied to (a) proclaim victory and freedom to the "captives" ... and ... (b) setting those captives free that are bound by the power of death and Hades. This seems to be exactly what Peter is referring to, imo. If Peter is in fact referring to Isiah 61:1, or Isaiah 61:1 should be used as understanding, then the "spirits in prison" are not the chained angels because the Savior didn't descend into Hades to set them free.

Other verses that I think relate are Acts 2:27, "For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption." The thought here would be that Christ will not "leave my soul in Hades" because it is known that Christ will/did descend into Hades to set the captives free and lead them out.

Eph 4:9, "Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." Here the idea would be that the descending into Hades was part of Christ's victory and He then ascended, after descending and claiming victory, taking into captivity that which was keeping mankind captive, i.e., the power of sin, death, and Hades.


Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure (Prov 2)
 
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Erik Nelson

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Goliath was most certainly not a Nephilim.

Point #1 - The oldest Hebrew manuscript of 1 Samuel 17:4 is the fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls (50-25BC) that states Goliath’s height was “four cubits and a span” (approx. 6’9”). This older scroll, which is a Dead Sea caves find, contradicts the newer (not as old) Massoretic Text which says that Goliath’s height was “six cubits and a span” (approx 9’9”). So Goliath was most likely not as tall as we were led to believe.
Goliath was a Philistine champion, who -- like his (distant) Japhethite kinsman Heracles -- marched to the fore, like the dictionary definition of a "hero", and fought so that others might not have to

David was (ultimately) a stay-at-home who sent Uriah the Japhethite to the front to die in order to steal his wife from the safety of far behind the frontlines

just trying to provide a modern balanced perspective, including even the side of the vanquished "disposable doughboy heroes" so to speak
 
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