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The importance of Christians to have personal dignity and honor

BibleBeliever1611

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"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:" - Romans 2:7

In today's society, it seems like many people are losing their desire to have personal glory, honor and dignity. People, such as the leftists, often act in ways that makes them lose all sense of personal honor and dignity. And on top of that, they don't even care. Dressing weird, having a weird haircut, doing shameful things, etc, means that you don't care about your self-image. Normally, every normal person has their own sense of dignity and importance if you will.

This should especially apply to Christians and that is proven by a verse like Romans 2:7. Christians are by character people who in patience and in continuance seek glory and honor. And the more you accomplish those things (and gain personal glory and honor), the better it is. Sometimes, people would even to go the very extreme with this and fantazise about extreme persecution, being beaten up, going to jail or being killed for Christ's sake. And then they would go to heaven with glory, as a martyr. That is a great thing. Seek as much glory as you possibly can.

Sometimes, people would talk in ways that sound like this: "oh, I'm just this humble nobody" almost like they enjoy the fact that they don't have much glory or honor. That should be wrong. Society should be built in a way that bolsters people's sense of their own dignity. But in today's world, it looks like the world is falling off the tracks with this idea. It feels like people are losing their desire for honor. Like they don't care. And that allows them to do things which would normally be embarrassing without feeling embarrassed, to do something shameful and having no feeling of shame. And to put things back on track, we desperately need to go in the other direction. We need people to feel their self-importance again. If people no longer feel embarrassement, they need to be mocked and exposed and humiliated to the point that they start feeling it again - so they can repent. It is a hard, uphill battle, but it has to be fought with patience.

It brought to mind how someone here would say that he is "by reputation" a Calvinist. This is a person who doesn't care about honor. Who doesn't care about his own dignity. If you actually cared, you would know exactly what you are, what you identify as, defend it, and not let anyone say anything against it. That would actually go together with Romans 2:7. Don't let anyone else tell you what your theological position is - know it by yourself, be proud of it, and defend it. It should be embarrassing to let your reputation define you - to any normal person anyways.

The verse should also apply in other areas of life. If you have a job, try to be proud that you have the job. Try to have pride that you know how things are done. Try to have pride in your skills, in your talents, etc. If you have a hobby, take pride in that too. Try to have a sense of being an important person and not just a humble nobody. If you are a saved Christian, you literally are quite important whether you like that or not. No matter how deep into sin you fall, you are still called a saint, simultaneously.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:" - Romans 2:7

In today's society, it seems like many people are losing their desire to have personal glory, honor and dignity. People, such as the leftists, often act in ways that makes them lose all sense of personal honor and dignity. And on top of that, they don't even care. Dressing weird, having a weird haircut, doing shameful things, etc, means that you don't care about your self-image. Normally, every normal person has their own sense of dignity and importance if you will.

This should especially apply to Christians and that is proven by a verse like Romans 2:7. Christians are by character people who in patience and in continuance seek glory and honor. And the more you accomplish those things (and gain personal glory and honor), the better it is. Sometimes, people would even to go the very extreme with this and fantazise about extreme persecution, being beaten up, going to jail or being killed for Christ's sake. And then they would go to heaven with glory, as a martyr. That is a great thing. Seek as much glory as you possibly can.

Sometimes, people would talk in ways that sound like this: "oh, I'm just this humble nobody" almost like they enjoy the fact that they don't have much glory or honor. That should be wrong. Society should be built in a way that bolsters people's sense of their own dignity. But in today's world, it looks like the world is falling off the tracks with this idea. It feels like people are losing their desire for honor. Like they don't care. And that allows them to do things which would normally be embarrassing without feeling embarrassed, to do something shameful and having no feeling of shame. And to put things back on track, we desperately need to go in the other direction. We need people to feel their self-importance again. If people no longer feel embarrassement, they need to be mocked and exposed and humiliated to the point that they start feeling it again - so they can repent. It is a hard, uphill battle, but it has to be fought with patience.

It brought to mind how someone here would say that he is "by reputation" a Calvinist. This is a person who doesn't care about honor. Who doesn't care about his own dignity. If you actually cared, you would know exactly what you are, what you identify as, defend it, and not let anyone say anything against it. That would actually go together with Romans 2:7. Don't let anyone else tell you what your theological position is - know it by yourself, be proud of it, and defend it. It should be embarrassing to let your reputation define you - to any normal person anyways.

The verse should also apply in other areas of life. If you have a job, try to be proud that you have the job. Try to have pride that you know how things are done. Try to have pride in your skills, in your talents, etc. If you have a hobby, take pride in that too. Try to have a sense of being an important person and not just a humble nobody. If you are a saved Christian, you literally are quite important whether you like that or not. No matter how deep into sin you fall, you are still called a saint, simultaneously.

Y'know, maybe you have a good point, BB1611! I typically see myself as a nobody. But when you mention the word 'glory,' I'm unfortunately not clear on what that would look like in life today. What sort of manifestations should I expect to accompany any experience of glory that I might have as a Christian in this life?
 
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BibleBeliever1611

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Y'know, maybe you have a good point, BB1611! I typically see myself as a nobody. But when you mention the word 'glory,' I'm unfortunately not clear on what that would look like in life today. What sort of manifestations should I expect to accompany any experience of glory that I might have as a Christian in this life?
If there is a reason to be rightfully admired and/or praised by other people, that would be glory. That is how I would define that word. To do something great.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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If there is a reason to be rightfully admired and/or praised by other people, that would be glory. That is how I would define that word. To do something great.

So, if I do something great, then I should expect to receive glory from other people? Should I demand it from them if I know I'm doing something great?
 
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Delvianna

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If there is a reason to be rightfully admired and/or praised by other people, that would be glory. That is how I would define that word. To do something great.
Define "do something great"? Because that's pretty subjective. I believe you are correct in your first sentence but specifically, it means that its just to have a good opinion of someone. If you add "do something great", I don't agree because that can be subjective. I can receive glory from someone because I fed a homeless person. Does that count as "great"?

In general, I have an issue with your point of your post because we are supposed to do everything for the "glory" of God. If you start striving to do glory for yourself (like the example you gave of being a martyr for the point of getting glory in heaven), then that's a self-centered viewpoint that I don't agree with. Based on that, I think your understanding of Romans 2:7 is a little off because the context is doing it for God. Because literally the next verse says, " But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger."

Then there's this:
Sometimes, people would talk in ways that sound like this: "oh, I'm just this humble nobody" almost like they enjoy the fact that they don't have much glory or honor. That should be wrong.
But this goes against having humility. God exalts the humble but resists the proud. It is God who elevates. Remember, scripture says Moses was the most humble man and what did God do with Moses? Not only did he personally lead the 12 tribes, but he is the only person in recorded history that talked to God face to face. So no, it's not wrong. Scripture teaches you to continually be humble.

Then you change context and say:
The verse should also apply in other areas of life. If you have a job, try to be proud that you have the job. Try to have pride that you know how things are done. Try to have pride in your skills, in your talents, etc. If you have a hobby, take pride in that too. Try to have a sense of being an important person and not just a humble nobody. If you are a saved Christian, you literally are quite important whether you like that or not. No matter how deep into sin you fall, you are still called a saint, simultaneously.
I agree. But this is different than the context of Romans 2:7. Theres a difference between being humble, and self-deprecation. Yes, take pride in your work, your abilities, your strengths, skills, talents and the like, but don't turn it into a glory seeking adventure where you're doing it for others recognition and not for the glory of God but for the glory of yourself.
 
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BibleBeliever1611

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If you start striving to do glory for yourself (like the example you gave of being a martyr for the point of getting glory in heaven), then that's a self-centered viewpoint that I don't agree with.
What if the fruit is going to be great things accomplished for God and a lot of souls saved? If someone out there just wants to seek glory for themselves by doing things for God, then why not just go for it. That's all I have to say. I'm like the apostle Paul in the book of Philippians where he said that he's rejoicing even if people accomplish something for God for the wrong reasons. Even if the gospel is preached in a wrong and obnoxious manner, if that nevertheless accomplishes someone to be saved, then that is a reason to rejoice for me, and for Paul. But I still disagree with you that seeking glory for yourself would be wrong. After all Romans 2:7 seems to say otherwise. So all in all, I don't think your argument holds water here.

But this goes against having humility. God exalts the humble but resists the proud. It is God who elevates. Remember, scripture says Moses was the most humble man and what did God do with Moses? Not only did he personally lead the 12 tribes, but he is the only person in recorded history that talked to God face to face. So no, it's not wrong. Scripture teaches you to continually be humble.
What I'm saying does not go against humility. In fact being humble would be part of seeking glory/honor. It's always humble people who get elevated. If you lift yourself up with pride, then obviously that is not glorious in any way. That would be the opposite: having shame instead of honor. But nevertheless, it is still possible to actually seek glory, and seek honor, and seek for those things, and even seeking them more and more. Do you see what I mean?
 
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Delvianna

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What if the fruit is going to be great things accomplished for God and a lot of souls saved? If someone out there just wants to seek glory for themselves by doing things for God, then why not just go for it. That's all I have to say. I'm like the apostle Paul in the book of Philippians where he said that he's rejoicing even if people accomplish something for God for the wrong reasons. Even if the gospel is preached in a wrong and obnoxious manner, if that nevertheless accomplishes someone to be saved, then that is a reason to rejoice for me, and for Paul. But I still disagree with you that seeking glory for yourself would be wrong. After all Romans 2:7 seems to say otherwise. So all in all, I don't think your argument holds water here.
There is a vast difference between rejoicing that the Gospel is being preached regardless and actually telling people to go out and do stuff for the wrong motives. We should be teaching people to do the correct thing, and not the wrong thing. The correct thing, is doing something for God for the correct reasons, not telling people that it's completely fine if they disregard a ton of teachings in scripture and just go and do stuff for yourself. That's teaching contrary to what scripture states. As I said, verse 8 contradicts your understanding of verse 7.

What I'm saying does not go against humility. In fact being humble would be part of seeking glory/honor. It's always humble people who get elevated. If you lift yourself up with pride, then obviously that is not glorious in any way. That would be the opposite: having shame instead of honor. But nevertheless, it is still possible to actually seek glory, and seek honor, and seek for those things, and even seeking them more and more. Do you see what I mean?
Yes, but like I said, motives matter and what you're doing it for.
 
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BibleBeliever1611

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There is a vast difference between rejoicing that the Gospel is being preached regardless and actually telling people to go out and do stuff for the wrong motives. We should be teaching people to do the correct thing, and not the wrong thing. The correct thing, is doing something for God for the correct reasons, not telling people that it's completely fine if they disregard a ton of teachings in scripture and just go and do stuff for yourself. That's teaching contrary to what scripture states. As I said, verse 8 contradicts your understanding of verse 7.


Yes, but like I said, motives matter and what you're doing it for.
Well, imagine that someone just wants a blessing and that's why he preaches the gospel. Do you really think that's wrong? And why do you think the Bible talks about heavenly REWARDS? Because that probably motivates a lot of people to do works for God. Why would it otherwise mention rewards at all? Personally I just love the lost and would want them to be saved just for the sake of them being saved, but I don't think it's wrong at all to preach the gospel just to get a heavenly reward.
 
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Delvianna

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Well, imagine that someone just wants a blessing and that's why he preaches the gospel. Do you really think that's wrong? And why do you think the Bible talks about heavenly REWARDS? Because that probably motivates a lot of people to do works for God. Why would it otherwise mention rewards at all? Personally I just love the lost and would want them to be saved just for the sake of them being saved, but I don't think it's wrong at all to preach the gospel just to get a heavenly reward.

1 Corinthians 10:31

“So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”

1 Timothy 6:5

“…imagining that godliness is a means of gain.”

1 Peter 5:2

“Shepherd the flock of God… not for shameful gain, but eagerly.”

Philippians 2:3–4

“Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.”

God rewards us for what we do for Him, but that doesn't mean he wants us to go around doing it FOR the rewards. Because otherwise ministry is being treated like a transaction, business deal, status ladder, or reward machine.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Well, imagine that someone just wants a blessing and that's why he preaches the gospel. Do you really think that's wrong? And why do you think the Bible talks about heavenly REWARDS? Because that probably motivates a lot of people to do works for God. Why would it otherwise mention rewards at all? Personally I just love the lost and would want them to be saved just for the sake of them being saved, but I don't think it's wrong at all to preach the gospel just to get a heavenly reward.

I think I'd be tempted to agree with your general proposition in your OP. The only problem at the moment is I'm trying to understand how I'd fit the following passage from Matthew 6:1-4 into a 'glory project' for my own benefit. I must be missing something here that I'm not fully understanding yet. Somehow, verse 1 just doesn't sit well with me.

1 “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
 
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BibleBeliever1611

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1 Corinthians 10:31


1 Timothy 6:5


1 Peter 5:2


Philippians 2:3–4



God rewards us for what we do for Him, but that doesn't mean he wants us to go around doing it FOR the rewards. Because otherwise ministry is being treated like a transaction, business deal, status ladder, or reward machine.
Again, what is the reason the rewards are mentioned in the Bible then? It would have been possible that the Bible never mentioned rewards, and they just came as a surprise in heaven then. But they in fact are mentioned. Why, if not to motivate people to do works for God in order to earn those rewards?
 
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Delvianna

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Again, what is the reason the rewards are mentioned in the Bible then? It would have been possible that the Bible never mentioned rewards, and they just came as a surprise in heaven then. But they in fact are mentioned. Why, if not to motivate people to do works for God in order to earn those rewards?
I answered you.
God rewards us for what we do for Him, but that doesn't mean he wants us to go around doing it FOR the rewards.
Think of it this way, if you go and do something nice for your spouse, do you do it because you love them? Or because you expect your spouse to do something or get you something in return? The first reason is what scripture teaches, the latter is what scripture teaches against. You are actively arguing for the latter.
 
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BibleBeliever1611

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I answered you.

Think of it this way, if you go and do something nice for your spouse, do you do it because you love them? Or because you expect your spouse to do something or get you something in return? The first reason is what scripture teaches, the latter is what scripture teaches against. You are actively arguing for the latter.
No, you didn't answer me at all. You said that God rewards us, yes, but why is this fact revealed to us in scriptures? Why does it not come as a surprise in heaven? You had two chances to answer this already, and you failed both attempts because you have no answer. I think it's great to think that you can earn a reward like that and have that as your motivation. People could have different reasons and motivations for soul-winning but the heavenly reward can definitely be one of them.
 
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Delvianna

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No, you didn't answer me at all. You said that God rewards us, yes, but why is this fact revealed to us in scriptures? Why does it not come as a surprise in heaven? You had two chances to answer this already, and you failed both attempts because you have no answer. I think it's great to think that you can earn a reward like that and have that as your motivation. People could have different reasons and motivations for soul-winning but the heavenly reward can definitely be one of them.
You may not have liked my answer, but I still answered you and I even tried to explain it with an analogy. If you want to know why God rewards us at all, essentially because he wants to. Thats it. But again, motives matter. He does not want us to do for him for the wrong motives and depending on the motive we might not be rewarded at all.
 
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FireDragon76

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Paul isn't speaking of honor or glory in the earthly or carnal sense. He's using those terms somewhat analogically: to be "in Christ" is having honor, glory, and immortality, but honor and glory in themselves aren't necessarily the same as being in Christ.
 
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fhansen

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"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:" - Romans 2:7

In today's society, it seems like many people are losing their desire to have personal glory, honor and dignity. People, such as the leftists, often act in ways that makes them lose all sense of personal honor and dignity. And on top of that, they don't even care. Dressing weird, having a weird haircut, doing shameful things, etc, means that you don't care about your self-image. Normally, every normal person has their own sense of dignity and importance if you will.

This should especially apply to Christians and that is proven by a verse like Romans 2:7. Christians are by character people who in patience and in continuance seek glory and honor. And the more you accomplish those things (and gain personal glory and honor), the better it is. Sometimes, people would even to go the very extreme with this and fantazise about extreme persecution, being beaten up, going to jail or being killed for Christ's sake. And then they would go to heaven with glory, as a martyr. That is a great thing. Seek as much glory as you possibly can.

Sometimes, people would talk in ways that sound like this: "oh, I'm just this humble nobody" almost like they enjoy the fact that they don't have much glory or honor. That should be wrong. Society should be built in a way that bolsters people's sense of their own dignity. But in today's world, it looks like the world is falling off the tracks with this idea. It feels like people are losing their desire for honor. Like they don't care. And that allows them to do things which would normally be embarrassing without feeling embarrassed, to do something shameful and having no feeling of shame. And to put things back on track, we desperately need to go in the other direction. We need people to feel their self-importance again. If people no longer feel embarrassement, they need to be mocked and exposed and humiliated to the point that they start feeling it again - so they can repent. It is a hard, uphill battle, but it has to be fought with patience.

It brought to mind how someone here would say that he is "by reputation" a Calvinist. This is a person who doesn't care about honor. Who doesn't care about his own dignity. If you actually cared, you would know exactly what you are, what you identify as, defend it, and not let anyone say anything against it. That would actually go together with Romans 2:7. Don't let anyone else tell you what your theological position is - know it by yourself, be proud of it, and defend it. It should be embarrassing to let your reputation define you - to any normal person anyways.

The verse should also apply in other areas of life. If you have a job, try to be proud that you have the job. Try to have pride that you know how things are done. Try to have pride in your skills, in your talents, etc. If you have a hobby, take pride in that too. Try to have a sense of being an important person and not just a humble nobody. If you are a saved Christian, you literally are quite important whether you like that or not. No matter how deep into sin you fall, you are still called a saint, simultaneously.
I agree. All humans, in fact, are inherently worthy of great dignity and respect based on the fact that they’re made in the image and likeness of God, alone. The problem is that we often don’t live up to that image. At the same time, humility is not in the least bit undignified. God, Himself, demonstrated gobs of it on the cross. We can never have too much of that virtue.

Pride becomes a problem when it becomes the “idolization of the self”, self-love out of control so to speak, placing ourselves on a level of exaltation beyond the truth of who we actually are, essentially on par with God.
 
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NBB

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What irritates me a lot, is the world system, of valuing money and titles and appearance etc,
what money and titles had the disciples or even Jesus,
even Christians, despise or have disdain for poor people, the bible says "be careful not despising one of these little ones that believes in me"
 
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