Saint Peter says: Second Advent = Second Resurrection - All Other Theories Debunked

Spiritual Jew · Apr 28, 2026

Ed Parenteau said:
Let's start a little earlier

So, just ignore the verses I showed then?

Ed Parenteau said:
because Paul tells us the body that goes into the ground is not the body that will be raised and makes clear there is no resurrection of the living.

No, he does not tell us that. The natural body that the dead in Christ had will be raised, but it will be changed into a spiritual body. And those who are alive at the last trumpet will have their bodies changed as well.

Ed Parenteau said:
1 Corinthians 15:35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. 38But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body.
In verse 50 it says the perishable body we're in does not inherit the imperishable body we will be given.

The perishable body will be changed into an imperishable body. You are making something simple into something complicated for no reason.

Ed Parenteau said:
1 Corinthians 15:50Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

And Peter tells us what that "imperishable seed" is and what happens to the flesh.
1 Peter 1:23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24For,
“All flesh is like grass,
and all its glory like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25but the word of the Lord stands forever.”

That passage from 1 Peter is referring to the spirit, not the body, so it's not related to what Paul was writing about. Why do you not differentiate between the spirit and the body?

Ed Parenteau said:
And again Peter tells us: 1Peter: 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

A mortal body is a living body that is subject to death. How does the mortal become immortal in the following? You can see that the immortal believer still dies a mortal death.
John 11:2525Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

You are not differentiating between the soul/spirit and the body. Why? Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, so when a believer physically dies, their soul and spirit does not die but continues living with Jesus in heaven. In the future, the natural, mortal bodies of the dead in Christ will be resurrected and changed into immortal spiritual bodies.

Ed Parenteau · Apr 29, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
So, just ignore the verses I showed then?

No, I didn't ignore those verses, I was just bringing in the questions Paul was answering. 35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” If were not answering the questions, what are we answering? For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

Spiritual Jew said:
No, he does not tell us that. The natural body that the dead in Christ had will be raised, but it will be changed into a spiritual body. And those who are alive at the last trumpet will have their bodies changed as well.

37And what you sow is not the body that will be...-It certainly is clear to me that the body going into the ground is not the body that is raised.

Spiritual Jew said:
The perishable body will be changed into an imperishable body. You are making something simple into something complicated for no reason.

I think you're assuming something not stated.

Spiritual Jew said:
That passage from 1 Peter is referring to the spirit, not the body, so it's not related to what Paul was writing about. Why do you not differentiate between the spirit and the body?

Because that is the immortal seed that is the germ of the "spiritual body".

Spiritual Jew said:
You are not differentiating between the soul/spirit and the body. Why? Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, so when a believer physically dies, their soul and spirit does not die but continues living with Jesus in heaven. In the future, the natural, mortal bodies of the dead in Christ will be resurrected and changed into immortal spiritual bodies.

OK, show me where the change takes place. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. -- Sounds a lot like verse 37And what you sow is not the body that will be...

Spiritual Jew · Apr 29, 2026

Ed Parenteau said:
No, I didn't ignore those verses, I was just bringing in the questions Paul was answering. 35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” If were not answering the questions, what are we answering? For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

37And what you sow is not the body that will be...-It certainly is clear to me that the body going into the ground is not the body that is raised.

It will not remain a natural body, but will be changed into a spiritual body. Maybe the change occurs while the body is being resurrected. That's beside the point. The point is that the natural body will be changed into a spiritual body. What exactly do you think will be changed at the last trumpet, if not the body?

Ed Parenteau said:
I think you're assuming something not stated.

Because that is the immortal seed that is the germ of the "spiritual body".

OK, show me where the change takes place. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. -- Sounds a lot like verse 37And what you sow is not the body that will be...

The change will take place when the last trumpet sounds. The change is from a corruptible, dishonorable, weak and mortal natural body to an incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal spiritual body. As I've already shown.

Ed Parenteau · Apr 30, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
It will not remain a natural body, but will be changed into a spiritual body. Maybe the change occurs while the body is being resurrected. That's beside the point. The point is that the natural body will be changed into a spiritual body. What exactly do you think will be changed at the last trumpet, if not the body?

1 Th 4:14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
Then we have the question that is asked in 1 Cor 15:35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” Then Paul answers the first question: 36You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. ---So, how do you get a resurrected body without dying?--- Then he answers the second question: 38But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body. ---He says our body is merely a seed that gets sown. And it seems to me that unless one is born again of the incorruptible seed of the Holy Spirit you won't be raised to eternal life?

Spiritual Jew said:
The change will take place when the last trumpet sounds. The change is from a corruptible, dishonorable, weak and mortal natural body to an incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal spiritual body. As I've already shown.

What do you think "change" means? Change cars, change clothes, change body. Christ is the resurrection and the life and Christ in you is the hope of glory. The dead receive their heavenly spiritual body and Christ reveals Himself to the living.
John 14:17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19In a little while the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.”

Spiritual Jew · Apr 30, 2026

Ed Parenteau said:
1 Th 4:14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
Then we have the question that is asked in 1 Cor 15:35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” Then Paul answers the first question: 36You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. ---So, how do you get a resurrected body without dying?--- Then he answers the second question: 38But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body. ---He says our body is merely a seed that gets sown. And it seems to me that unless one is born again of the incorruptible seed of the Holy Spirit you won't be raised to eternal life?

1 Thessalonians 4:14 is talking about the souls and spirits of the dead in Christ being brought with Jesus from heaven to unite with their resurrected, changed bodies.

This was your response to me asking you "What exactly do you think will be changed at the last trumpet, if not the body?". I don't see where you answered that question anywhere.

Ed Parenteau said:
What do you think "change" means?

To be changed from one thing to another. As I've said multiple times already, Paul indicated that the natural bodies we have now, which he said are corruptible, dishonorable, weak and mortal, will be changed into spiritual bodies that are incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal. Please tell me what you don't understand about what I'm saying here.

Ed Parenteau said:
Change cars, change clothes, change body. Christ is the resurrection and the life and Christ in you is the hope of glory. The dead receive their heavenly spiritual body and Christ reveals Himself to the living.
John 14:17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19In a little while the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.”

That passage has nothing to do with the dead receiving their heavenly spiritual body. That passage has to do with the Holy Spirit, who is also called the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ, coming to dwell inside of people while they are alive. Do you not think that the Holy Spirit dwells in you right now?

Ed Parenteau · May 1, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
1 Thessalonians 4:14 is talking about the souls and spirits of the dead in Christ being brought with Jesus from heaven to unite with their resurrected, changed bodies.

This was your response to me asking you "What exactly do you think will be changed at the last trumpet, if not the body?". I don't see where you answered that question anywhere.

Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets. When Jesus said not one stone shall be left upon another. It reminds me of Jericho when at the "last trump" the walls fell and they could then enter the promise land. Jesus also refers the the feast of trumpets when He repeats a Jewish idiom: "no man knows the day or hour" idiom for feast of trumpets at DuckDuckGo And considering that Jesus "came only to the lost sheep of Israel", they would have understood that idiom.

Spiritual Jew said:
To be changed from one thing to another. As I've said multiple times already, Paul indicated that the natural bodies we have now, which he said are corruptible, dishonorable, weak and mortal, will be changed into spiritual bodies that are incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal. Please tell me what you don't understand about what I'm saying here.

It doesn't say they "will be changed into". Your perishable body disintegrates into nothing. There is nothing left to be raised. The body is sown as a "seed" it is raised to eternal life a spiritual body.

Spiritual Jew said:
That passage has nothing to do with the dead receiving their heavenly spiritual body. That passage has to do with the Holy Spirit, who is also called the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ, coming to dwell inside of people while they are alive. Do you not think that the Holy Spirit dwells in you right now?

I was referring to the living who would "remain" after the resurrection when Christ who is the resurrection indwells the believer. Christ in you is that change.

Spiritual Jew · May 1, 2026

Ed Parenteau said:
Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets. When Jesus said not one stone shall be left upon another. It reminds me of Jericho when at the "last trump" the walls fell and they could then enter the promise land. Jesus also refers the the feast of trumpets when He repeats a Jewish idiom: "no man knows the day or hour" idiom for feast of trumpets at DuckDuckGo And considering that Jesus "came only to the lost sheep of Israel", they would have understood that idiom.

I have no idea of what you're intending to say here or how it relates to what I said. Try to learn how to communicate more clearly.

Ed Parenteau said:
It doesn't say they "will be changed into". Your perishable body disintegrates into nothing. There is nothing left to be raised. The body is sown as a "seed" it is raised to eternal life a spiritual body.

What is your understanding of the word "changed" then? The perishable body does not disintegrate into literally nothing. We're talking about God here. He can resurrect ashes or a pile of bones and change them into an incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal spiritual body.

Ed Parenteau said:
I was referring to the living who would "remain" after the resurrection when Christ who is the resurrection indwells the believer. Christ in you is that change.

Nonsense. We do not yet have spiritual bodies that are incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal. We have natural bodies that are corruptible, dishonorable, weak and mortal. That change into spiritual bodies does not happen until Jesus returns at the last trumpet. Are you a full preterist who does not believe in a future resurrection of the dead and does not believe that Jesus will return bodily in the future?

Ed Parenteau · May 2, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
I have no idea of what you're intending to say here or how it relates to what I said. Try to learn how to communicate more clearly.

I agree, it was poorly stated. The point I was trying to make, are that all of the trumpet calls are part of the law. There are no established trumpet calls specifically for the church. So how can there still be a trumpet call unless the whole law is still valid? Matthew 5:17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Spiritual Jew said:
What is your understanding of the word "changed" then? The perishable body does not disintegrate into literally nothing. We're talking about God here. He can resurrect ashes or a pile of bones and change them into an incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal spiritual body.

Thayer's equates these as "to transform": 1 Corinthians 15:51; Hebrews 1:12.
10And:
“In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11They will perish, but You remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed;
but You remain the same,
and Your years will never end.”

God doesn't say anything about recreating your body and then raising it and then changing it into a spiritual body. Paul likens the body to a seed that gets sown.:37And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. 38But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body. --So, what kind of seed is your body. A perishable seed or the imperishable seed?

Spiritual Jew said:
Nonsense. We do not yet have spiritual bodies that are incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal. We have natural bodies that are corruptible, dishonorable, weak and mortal. That change into spiritual bodies does not happen until Jesus returns at the last trumpet. Are you a full preterist who does not believe in a future resurrection of the dead and does not believe that Jesus will return bodily in the future?

--Paul uses the first person plural pronoun "we" while addressing the Thessalonians, so how are they going to remain until the coming of the Lord? Remain means survive
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4035: περιλείπω
περιλείπω: present passive participle περιλειπόμενος (cf. περί, III. 2); to leave over; passive, to remain over, to survive: 1 Thessalonians 4:15, 17.

1 Th 4:15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. --As in Corinthians, the resurrection and the change to the living happen simultaneously in "a moment and a twinkling of an eye" which takes place on the last day on the day of the Lord and that happens first as stated. The next verse happens after the resurrection on the last day. Then "epeita" means after that, those who remain "will be" future tense "caught up"
17Then, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
There are survivors who remain after the day of the Lord
Isaiah 4:
1In that day seven women
will take hold of one man and say,
“We will eat our own bread
and provide our own clothes.
Just let us be called by your name.
Take away our disgrace!”
2On that day the Branch of the LORD
will be beautiful and glorious,
and the fruit of the land
will be the pride and glory of Israel’s survivors.
3Whoever remains in Zion
and whoever is left in Jerusalem
will be called holy—
all in Jerusalem who are recorded among the living—
4when the Lord has washed away
the filth of the daughters of Zion
and cleansed the bloodstains from the heart of Jerusalem
by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Zechariah 14:16Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

FredVB · May 9, 2026

Ed Parenteau said:
Where does it say that the "bodies" of believers will be changed. Paul tells the Corinthians "we will be changed". I think you're assuming "bodies".
Since Jesus prayed not to take believers out of the world, why did anyone think that He would?
John 17:
15I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. 18As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.
20I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
--This prayer is in perfect harmony with the "Lord's Prayer".
When Jesus entered your life, were you changed?

"Where does it say"

This happens at the resurrection, for believers, who would be changed, it certainly includes bodies that do need to be changed, along with life restored to bodies of those who died resurrected and changed enough that there will be no more death to them. Think that much out, to be sensible.

Believers will not just be taken out for troubles that come, to them, or to this world, or anything else. There will be the time believers are caught up, not to deliver them from troubles they had any to do with, but that they are not among the unrepentant left when the judgment of God's wrath comes to them all throughout all the world. The repentant believers are all delivered from that because of Christ who they have come to.

Ed Parenteau · May 9, 2026

FredVB said:
"Where does it say"

This happens at the resurrection, for believers, who would be changed, it certainly includes bodies that do need to be changed, along with life restored to bodies of those who died resurrected and changed enough that there will be no more death to them. Think that much out, to be sensible.

Believers will not just be taken out for troubles that come, to them, or to this world, or anything else. There will be the time believers are caught up, not to deliver them from troubles they had any to do with, but that they are not among the unrepentant left when the judgment of God's wrath comes to them all throughout all the world. The repentant believers are all delivered from that because of Christ who they have come to.

If you are a believer, you already have eternal life, and when you die, you are raised to heaven with a new heavenly spiritual body.

John 11:25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Jesus literally prayed against anyone ever being raptured out of the world before death.

John 17:15I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. 18As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.
20I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message,

Then in Rev 14:13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”

Jan001 · May 9, 2026

Ed Parenteau said:
If you are a believer, you already have eternal life, and when you die, you are raised to heaven with a new heavenly spiritual body.

What do you think a believer is?

Ed Parenteau · May 10, 2026

Jan001 said:
What do you think a believer is?

One to whom God has revealed Himself to who has been set free from sin and death. In my case, it was Jan 2, 1980. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol. God showed me what I had in front of me. It saw the blackness of darkness as I looked into the mirror. I became terrified and cried out to God: "Help me". In a moment and twinkling of an eye, I was changed. Peace poured over me like a river and I never again had the desire to drink and get high again. I was a new creation in Christ.

Jan001 · May 10, 2026

Ed Parenteau said:
One to whom God has revealed Himself to who has been set free from sin and death. In my case, it was Jan 2, 1980. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol. God showed me what I had in front of me. It saw the blackness of darkness as I looked into the mirror. I became terrified and cried out to God: "Help me". In a moment and twinkling of an eye, I was changed. Peace poured over me like a river and I never again had the desire to drink and get high again. I was a new creation in Christ.

Congratulations on your deliverance! Praise be to God!

Do you think that a "new creation in Christ" can return to his (or her) former manner of living and remain "in Christ," or do you think that he has insulted the Spirit of Grace and will be subjected to God's vengeance if he doesn't repent before he dies?

Hebrews 10:29-31
How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know the one who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Ed Parenteau · May 11, 2026

Jan001 said:
Congratulations on your deliverance! Praise be to God!

Do you think that a "new creation in Christ" can return to his (or her) former manner of living and remain "in Christ," or do you think that he has insulted the Spirit of Grace and will be subjected to God's vengeance if he doesn't repent before he dies?

Hebrews 10:29-31
How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know the one who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Thank you!
The above verses are specific to the Jews as that is a quotation of Deuteronomy 32's prediction of the Jews last days where Moses gathers all Israel together refers to them as "heaven and earth". It is a song they were required to sing every year until their last generation when they would literally be witnesses against themselves as they sang that song.

No I do not believe that a born again believer who has been given the gift of faith can fall away to perdition. The last verse of Hebrews 10 summarizes those who have been given the gift of faith.

Hebrews 10:39But we are not of those shrinking back to destruction, but of faith to the preserving of the soul.

Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

James 1:16Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. 17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow. 18He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

Hebrews 12:2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:23Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24The One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it.

Jan001 · May 11, 2026

Ed Parenteau said:
The above verses are specific to the Jews as that is a quotation of Deuteronomy 32's prediction of the Jews last days where Moses gathers all Israel together refers to them as "heaven and earth". It is a song they were required to sing every year until their last generation when they would literally be witnesses against themselves as they sang that song.

I think they sang that song every year up until the Roman armies breached the gates of Jerusalem in about 70 AD. These unbelieving Jews in the first-century AD were part of the last generation of Jews under he first covenant.

Luke 11:45-51
One of the lawyers answered him, “Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us too.” 46 And he said, “Woe also to you lawyers! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not lift a finger to ease them. 47 Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your ancestors killed. 48 So you are witnesses and approve of the deeds of your ancestors; for they killed them, and you build their tombs. 49 Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ 50 so that this generation may be charged with the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be charged against this generation.

Ed Parenteau said:
No I do not believe that a born again believer who has been given the gift of faith can fall away to perdition. The last verse of Hebrews 10 summarizes those who have been given the gift of faith.

Hebrews 10:39But we are not of those shrinking back to destruction, but of faith to the preserving of the soul.

The author of Hebrews assumes that the people he is writing to are faithful Christians. Only God knows whether they will remain faithful to him until they die. 1 Corinthians 4:2-5

When a faithful Christian later commits adultery or fornication, he rejects his gift of salvation, deeming it to be worthless. He has fallen from the grace of God, and if he dies unrepentant, he will spend eternity in hell. 2 Peter 2:15-22

Paul warns the Colossians to remain faithful:

Colossians 3:1-6
So if you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth, 3 for you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is your life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with him in glory. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient.

Palmfever · May 11, 2026

SeventyOne said:
Are you planning of pointing out any specific details, or is this just an announcement?

Why is there an approval here by someone who blatently goes by 'satanist?'
The rules are clear.
"

Promoting* or proselytizing religious beliefs or religions other than Christianity is not allowed. Members who are Satanists (followers of any form of Satanism) are not allowed at CF. For the purpose of these rules, Christianity is defined by Christian Forums' Statement of Faith which is found in the Sitewide Rules.

Jan001 · May 11, 2026

dqhall said:
What is the first resurrection?

Jesus Christ's bodily resurrection from the dead was the first ever.

After his resurrection, he immediately released the righteous spirits from Abraham's side in Hades, and he escorted them to heaven. Matthew 27:51-53, Luke 16:22-25

They are presently reigning with him there. Revelation 20:4-6
They will accompany him to earth when it is time for the resurrection of all people's bodies from the dead. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

They will all then accompany him to the Kidron Valley/Valley of Jehoshaphat for the final judgment of all the people who ever lived. Joel 3:11-12

Ed Parenteau · May 12, 2026

Jan001 said:
I think they sang that song every year up until the Roman armies breached the gates of Jerusalem in about 70 AD. These unbelieving Jews in the first-century AD were part of the last generation of Jews under he first covenant.

Luke 11:45-51
One of the lawyers answered him, “Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us too.” 46 And he said, “Woe also to you lawyers! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not lift a finger to ease them. 47 Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your ancestors killed. 48 So you are witnesses and approve of the deeds of your ancestors; for they killed them, and you build their tombs. 49 Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ 50 so that this generation may be charged with the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be charged against this generation.

Jan001 said:
The author of Hebrews assumes that the people he is writing to are faithful Christians. Only God knows whether they will remain faithful to him until they die. 1 Corinthians 4:2-5

When a faithful Christian later commits adultery or fornication, he rejects his gift of salvation, deeming it to be worthless. He has fallen from the grace of God, and if he dies unrepentant, he will spend eternity in hell. 2 Peter 2:15-22

Paul warns the Colossians to remain faithful:

Colossians 3:1-6
So if you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth, 3 for you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is your life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with him in glory. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient.

You're the one who is assuming. That's why you can't find a single verse that actually says "you've lost your salvation" or "you've spiritually died again". Paul is always telling the believer not to do what the unbeliever does. He never says they'll lose their salvation.

Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient. --- Paul is telling the Colossians who have been shown mercy not to do the same things as those who haven't been shown mercy. --Romans 11:28As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

It's as simple as the following:
John 3:36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

John 6:37Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.
39And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jan001 · May 12, 2026

Ed Parenteau said:
You're the one who is assuming. That's why you can't find a single verse that actually says "you've lost your salvation" or "you've spiritually died again". Paul is always telling the believer not to do what the unbeliever does. He never says they'll lose their salvation.

You can't literally "lose your salvation" unless you die unrepentant.

However, you can literally "lose God's grace," which you must have at the time of your death to be approved for eternal life.

Galatians 5:4
You who want to be justified by the law have cut yourselves off from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Luke 8:13
The ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe only for a while and in a time of testing fall away.

Jan001 · May 12, 2026

Ed Parenteau said:
It's as simple as the following:
John 3:36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

God does not consider Christians "believers" unless they are "obedient" to his commandments. If a Christian commits a mortal sin, he is not a believer. If he repents of his mortal sin, God will forgive him, and he will be a believer again.

1 John 5:16-18
If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal. 18 We know that those who are born of God do not sin, but the one who was born of God protects them, and the evil one does not touch them.

Faithful Christians freely choose to stop committing mortal sins. They listen to the Holy Spirit and thereby do good instead of evil. Obedience to the Holy Spirit protects them from succumbing to the devil's temptations to sin.

Saint Peter says: Second Advent = Second Resurrection - All Other Theories Debunked

Amillennialist

Well-Known Member

Amillennialist

Well-Known Member

Amillennialist

Well-Known Member

Amillennialist

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

Striving to win the prize...

Well-Known Member

Striving to win the prize...

Well-Known Member

Striving to win the prize...

Well-Known Member

Striving to win the prize...

Well-Known Member

Striving to win the prize...

Striving to win the prize...

Similar threads