How does the idea that most of Gods creation he will have to burn forever bring glory to God?

Jesus spoke more about going to hell. Nothing though about burning up forever. Misery being tormented but not burning up. Imagery in Revelation at the end of the Bible is that, symbolism among a lot of symbolism yet portraying the truth. All creation will not be burning forever, but there is a change for all creation with its creatures groaning for the hope, which will be answered, that they will be in the new creation with a new earth with new heavens.

Jeff Saunders said:

If creation is to bring about Gods glory, how does it bring God glory, if he knows that most of his creation he will have to burn forever, but he goes ahead and creates anyway knowing what the outcome will be. All the pain and suffering that people go through, wars, famine, slavery, human trafficking, and all the rest of this fallen world, and in the end, a small fraction of creation comes out good in the end, and people say that this if for Gods glory?
Now what if Jesus was really the savior of the cosmos as John 4:42 says and what if God was really reconciling the world to himself not counting mens trespasses against them, 2 Cor 5:19 but the scripture that says where sin abounds mercy abounds even more.Rom 5:20. Now if Gods plan was to have a creation that would love him out of free will and the last 6000 years and till the end, were Gods way of bringing about the result that all his creation would worship him out of free will and in the end God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28. Sin and death are no more, not just stuck in a place that God has to keep going forever and listen to the screams of his people for all eternity, what if God in the end would make a new heaven and new earth and the old is done and all is new, his whole creation living in him out of free will love, no more sin and death its gone forever.
I ask you how does God losing most of his creation and then having to burn it forever bring glory to God?
Does not the idea that God knew what he was doing, and had a plan, and had all that it would take to accomplish the plan, to bring all his creation into a love with him, forever and sin and death are no more, and God will be all in all. Does this not bring more glory to God?

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I don't like assumptions so I have a question for you that will help me clarify your stance.

Why did GOD create man?

Jeff Saunders said:

To share in the Trinity’s love and to be part of the love the Trinity has with each other and with us. That is why Jesus had to become human so he came into our delusion and redeemed all humanity back to himself.

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Junotheservant said:

I don't like assumptions so I have a question for you that will help me clarify your stance.

Why did GOD create man?

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Good question and you might add put man in a Garden to begin with and then a messed-up world.

God makes man first because He can make humans and His Love would compel Hi to make beings, to shower them with the greatest gifts possible to become like He is in that they would have this most powerful Love.

With man, God’s objective would be to allow and do everything to help willing humans to fulfill their objective.

So what is man’s objective?

You can take any command in scripture and have Biblical support for calling that command “Man’s Objective” since Bible said do it, but there are two overriding commands all other commands are bases on and subordinated to.

Everything is driven by the objective and the objective is not to just live forever in heaven nor just not to sin, yet eternal life is one of the results of our fulfilling our earthly objective.

Has God given man a mission statement? (this is always good to have)

So, Would “Loving God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy” be our Mission statement given as two commands?

This Godly type Love is defined by Jesus’ words and deeds (you can also use 1 Cor 13 and 1 John 4), so what is that?

Is God this ultimate Lover? Would that “Love” compel even God to make beings that could Love like He Loves (this “Love of God” is totally unselfish [a measurement for pure Love] and thus is not for God’s sake at all, but is totally for the sake of others [which would also be God’s sake])?

So, if God is not doing anything for His own sake and everything for the sake of others, would He be expecting or needing anything from man or would God just be trying to give the greatest gifts He could give to man?

Are there something God just cannot do: like make another Christ, since Christ was never made but always existed?

Could God place this Godly type Love in a person at his/her creation (an instinctive love) or would an instinctive love be like a robotic love and not like God’s Love?

Could God just force His Love on man against the “will” of man or would that be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun?

What does man need that he does not have instinctively for man to fulfill His Mission?

Man must have a very limited amount of autonomous free will to make at least the one choice to humbly accept or reject God’s Love (forgiveness/mercy/grace/charity).

Man’s objective seems to be to obtain and grow this Godly type Love to fulfill the mission (statement) of Love God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

Our “objective” while here on earth is to just accept God’s gift as it was given as pure charity, this will enable us to fulfill our mission.

God is not trying to get you to do something, but is trying to give you something.

The problem is not sin (unforgiven sin is a huge problem), because God will forgive our sins which helps us to Love (…he that is forgiven much will Love much….Luke 7) God hates sin, but does allow it, so we can more easily accept His Love (in the form of forgiveness the easiest way for us to accept His charity). The problem is always our fulfilling our objective.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By a free willing acceptance of God’s forgiveness, we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much (a Godly type Love, automatically given) since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Luke 7: 36-50.

This world is “very good”, but not “perfect” like heaven is perfect and does not have the same purpose as earth. This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective.

Death is not “bad” in and of itself for now, but the way good people go home and the way bad people quit doing bad stuff.

It is truly tragic and unfortunate that Christ had to be tortured, humiliated and murdered in order to help willing humans in their fulfilling of their objective, but God is willing to make huge sacrifices to help willing individuals. It is also very sad other humans who had the opportunity to fulfill their primary earthly objective continued to refuse God’s charity to the point they would never of their own free will accepted God’s charity. These refusers of God Loved are still Loved but will go to their death and destruction as a help to some other humans who have not refused God’s help to the point of never accepting His help.

The problem being humans (due in part to the needed survival instinct) do not like accepting Charity from a Giver that paid a huge price for the gift.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By accepting God’s forgiveness we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Luke 7: 36-50.

Once we accept Godly type Love, we can truly Love, grow that Love and have the privilege and honor of Loving God (the forgiver) and others (God’s children) with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

Jeff Saunders said:

To share in the Trinity’s love and to be part of the love the Trinity has with each other and with us. That is why Jesus had to become human so he came into our delusion and redeemed all humanity back to himself.

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You said in your opening post that God created man to burn and that our purpose is just to bring Him glory. Now you are telling me about sharing Trinity's love. Honestly, I don’t see that anywhere in the Bible, and it feels like you’re just saying something that sounds good without really understanding why God created man in the first place. Because of that, there’s not much more I can add here. Have a good day, sir.

Jeff Saunders said:

I think you misunderstood what I wrote in #262, I did not say God created man to burn.

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You said and I quote

Jeff Saunders said:

if he knows that most of his creation he will have to burn forever, but he goes ahead and creates anyway knowing what the outcome will be

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That it clearly seems you are saying God created man to burn because he knew that would happen. So I asked you a simple question why did God create man?

Jeff Saunders said:

To share in the Trinity’s love and to be part of the love the Trinity has with each other and with us.

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This was your answer. So now your question and what you are now saying makes no sense. Because God created us even though he knew we would burn then you are literally saying God created us to burn and now you are saying he created to share some love.

Adam made a choice and we all have a choice. Our choices matter, God did create Satan and his evil angels to burn, God did not create anyone knowing they will burn. They made a decision with their free will that God gave them.

I doubt anyone here truly understands why God created man. He created man to become just like him that's why we look like God because he created man to become God and the scriptures tell us this. Anyway have a good day man.

Jeff Saunders said:

I think you misunderstood what I wrote in #262, I did not say God created man to burn.

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That’s what you wrote in your own OP.

Jeff Saunders said:

I think it would help if you would go back and read the OP, it is not what you think.

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Then please explain what you meant when you wrote the following at the start of your OP.

“If creation is to bring about Gods glory, how does it bring God glory, if he knows that most of his creation he will have to burn forever, but he goes ahead and creates anyway knowing what the outcome will be.”

If what you state here is true then God is indeed creating man to burn them.

Hentenza said:

If what you state here is true then God is indeed creating man to burn them.

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The belief that God is going to burn the majority of mankind in hell is nothing more than a religious push to keep people in check.

Jeff Saunders said:

I wrote that to show how absurd the idea is that God would torture his creation.

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But you did say that God created man to be burned which is an even more absurd concept. The fact of the matter is that you don’t know how many people will not be saved. I call your argument theological drama.

Clare73 said:

Is "the Lord be with you" not "Dominus vobiscum"?

"The Lord is with you is "Dominus tecum."

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Hoo boy, my reply is about nine months late, but I finally found your response to my comment.
"Dominus vobiscum" is plural. It is what the priest says to the entire congregation during Mass.
"Dominus tecum" is singular. It is what the Archangel Gabriel said to the Blessed Virgin Mary at the Annunciation.
One of the last times I was able to assist at (ie, "attend") the Traditional Latin Mass I asked the priest whether or not "vobiscum" vs. "tecum" was only plural vs. singular or if it also depended on addressing a female. I was told that, in regards to which sex is being addressed, it all depends on context.
Now back to the discussion at hand ...

Jeff Saunders said:

Jesus never mentioned hell once, it’s not even in scripture. He spoke of the Valley of Hinnom, the place of earlier times where the Jews sacrificed their children to demons and were later killed and not buried Properly and in a shame based society was a bid insult.

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Hades and Gehenna were mentioned, and outer darkness and gnashing of teeth. Misery apart from God and the bliss with God for the redeemed are after this life for those never coming to repentance in faith to come to Christ, with God's fair justice. If that does not fit what hell can be, so be it.

bling said:

This world is “very good”, but not “perfect” like heaven is perfect and does not have the same purpose as earth. This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective.

Death is not “bad” in and of itself

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The world, along with all the creation, was called very good, by God. Never was that said of anything again in the Bible. It was made perfectly, that is why God called it very good. It was, until the rebellion that we recognize as the fall. Death, and suffering, came into the world and it was no longer very good, and death and suffering is not good. They are part of the curse that spreads from that rebellion and the sins there are, which are contrary to God, being against God. Jesus wept because of death. We hope for the deliverance from death, and suffering, that all of creation groans for.

FredVB said:

The world, along with all the creation, was called very good, by God. Never was that said of anything again in the Bible. It was made perfectly, that is why God called it very good. It was, until the rebellion that we recognize as the fall. Death, and suffering, came into the world and it was no longer very good, and death and suffering is not good. They are part of the curse that spreads from that rebellion and the sins there are, which are contrary to God, being against God. Jesus wept because of death. We hope for the deliverance from death, and suffering, that all of creation groans for.

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Very Good is not perfect.
Jesus is perfect, but He is not a "made" being. God cannot make beings that have always existed, clones of Christ, "perfect".
This world is as best as it can be to help willing individuals in the fulfillment of their earthly objective.
Heaven will not have a tempting tree of knowledge nor satan running around, so it is better than the Garden, but the Garden was what a willing man needed at the time to fulfill his objective.

Jeff Saunders said:

No one can be apart from God or separated from God, Rom 8:35 tells us nothing can separate us from the love of God.
Nothing exists outside of God.

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Romans 8:35 doesn't mean that nobody can be apart from God or separated from God. Romans, like all of the epistles, was addressed to Christians:

(Rom 1:5) Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name,
(Rom 1:6) among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
(Rom 1:7) To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.