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The Fifth Seal has been opened...

BibleDaniel7

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Hi Bible Eschatology fans

I have been fascinated with the seven seals of Revelation for a long time. I believe it is possible now to understand them, and see their fulfillment in progress, by linking them to Zechariah 6.

In summary: the four horseman of the first four seals have the same colours as the horses in Zechariah 6, which came out between two mountains of bronze. Many have already noted the similarity between these "mountains of bronze" in Zechariah 6 and the two towers attack of 9/11, so I believe Zechariah 6 is telling us when the 7 seals start to be opened. If so, I have noticed a 6 years sequence of an initial event, and then a fulfillment, corresponding to the first 5 seals. These are:

I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
Rev 6:1-2

First seal: 9/11 attacks, leading to the "War on Terror" where the US rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest, including conquering Afghanistan and Iraq.

When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, "Come!" Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.
Rev 6:3-4

Second seal: 13 September 2007 assassination of Abdul Sattar Abu Risha, followed by violence across the Middle East associated with Islamic State and the Arab Spring.

When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "Two pounds of wheat for a day's wages, and six pounds of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
Revelation 6:5-6

Third seal: 28 October 2013 terrorist attack against Tiananmen Square, followed by a crackdown by China on its state of Xinjiang, where it is accused of the largest mass internment of an ethnic-religious minority group since World War II. and forced labour as described by the third seal verses above.

When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Revelation 6:7-8

Fourth seal: late 2019 emergence of covid-19 virus, followed by a pandemic, and then war and starvation in Gaza (a fourth of the "earth", which refers to the land of Israel).

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those slain because of the word of God, and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
Revelation 6:9-11

Fifth seal: 10 September 2025 assassination of prominent US evangelist Charlie Kirk, slain because of the word of God and testimony he had maintained. Fulfillment still ongoing...

If correct, this means we can expect the sixth seal to be opened in 2031 and the seventh seal in 2037, with the seven trumpets to follow after that.

For more details on this, including further links to Daniel 7, you can check out my website: 7 Seals | Bible Daniel 7 Website
 

Douggg

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The seven seals span the events of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27, as presented in Revelation as the 1260 days,(first half), the 42 months and time/times/half time (of the second half).

The seven seal events have not begun yet. The first event will be the rider on the white horse, representing a messiah figure, who will be given a crown.

The rider will be the Antichrist, and the crown he will be given is that of being anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews initially. And a false messianic age of the world saying peace and safety (1Thessalonains5:3) for around 3 years into the 7 years will begin.

The Antichrist person will then commit the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13, described in 2Thessalonians2:4. It will reveal him to be the man of sin and not the messiah after all, as the Jews will have initially thought.

That act will shatter the peace and safety delusion, and war will break out as the rider on the red horse rides.

In Ezekiel 28:1-10, God has strangers come against the revealed man of sin to assassinate him (the mortally wound head in Revelation 13).

Finding his soul in hell, in Isaiah 14:18-20, the slain man of sin's soul does not remain there, as God in disdain for the person brings him back to life - returning his soul to his body. At which time, the person becomes the beast of Revelation.

And as a delusion to his first claiming to have achieved God-hood, his coming back to life will appear to an unbelieving world in the One True God that his claim was valid. And they will errantly worship the beast and the statue image that the false prophet in Revelation 13 will have made and placed on the temple mount as the abomination of desolation.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The bottom line is that none of the seal events have begun yet, and will not begin until after the Gog/Magog attack on Israel in Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39.
 
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keras

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Plainly; the first Five Seals were actioned at Christ’s Ascension, as per Revelation 5 and 6:1-11 and Zechariah 6:1-7

Proved by the terrible wars, famines and plagues we have experienced since then.
The Fifth Seal is obviously open and all the souls of the martyrs since Stephen are kept under the Altar in heaven.

Then the Sixth Seal: the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, is the next prophesied event we can expect, with its dramatic cosmic and world shaking things prophesied, triggered by an attack upon Israel. Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12
 
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BibleDaniel7

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The seven seals span the events of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27, as presented in Revelation as the 1260 days,(first half), the 42 months and time/times/half time (of the second half).

The seven seal events have not begun yet. The first event will be the rider on the white horse, representing a messiah figure, who will be given a crown.

The rider will be the Antichrist, and the crown he will be given is that of being anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews initially. And a false messianic age of the world saying peace and safety (1Thessalonains5:3) for around 3 years into the 7 years will begin.

The Antichrist person will then commit the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13, described in 2Thessalonians2:4. It will reveal him to be the man of sin and not the messiah after all, as the Jews will have initially thought.

That act will shatter the peace and safety delusion, and war will break out as the rider on the red horse rides.

In Ezekiel 28:1-10, God has strangers come against the revealed man of sin to assassinate him (the mortally wound head in Revelation 13).

Finding his soul in hell, in Isaiah 14:18-20, the slain man of sin's soul does not remain there, as God in disdain for the person brings him back to life - returning his soul to his body. At which time, the person becomes the beast of Revelation.

And as a delusion to his first claiming to have achieved God-hood, his coming back to life will appear to an unbelieving world in the One True God that his claim was valid. And they will errantly worship the beast and the statue image that the false prophet in Revelation 13 will have made and placed on the temple mount as the abomination of desolation.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The bottom line is that none of the seal events have begun yet, and will not begin until after the Gog/Magog attack on Israel in Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39.
Hi Douggg

I don't understand your position. There is a clear link between the seals and Zechariah 6 - the 4 horses with the same colours. I don't see any link between Daniel 9 and the seals. You seem to think the seals won't occur until Gog/Magog, which is described in Revelation 20:7, I know Revelation isn't perfectly chronological but I don't think the seals of Revelation 6 happen after the events of Revelation 20.
 
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BibleDaniel7

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Plainly; the first Five Seals were actioned at Christ’s Ascension, as per Revelation 5 and 6:1-11 and Zechariah 6:1-7

Proved by the terrible wars, famines and plagues we have experienced since then.
The Fifth Seal is obviously open and all the souls of the martyrs since Stephen are kept under the Altar in heaven.

Then the Sixth Seal: the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, is the next prophesied event we can expect, with its dramatic cosmic and world shaking things prophesied, triggered by an attack upon Israel. Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12
Hi Keras

Well we are in agreement that the sixth seal happens next! You also link the seals to Zechariah 6, which is good. If you generally apply the first five seals to all wars, martyrdom etc. then I can see how you conclude they happened a long time ago. However those things happen throughout history with or without seals. If the seals don't align to specific events, the prophecy is a bit meaningless, and I think God's Word most certainly isn't meaningless. In addition your timeline has an odd 2000 year gap between the first 5 seals and the next one.
 
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Douggg

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I know Revelation isn't perfectly chronological but I don't think the seals of Revelation 6 happen after the events of Revelation 20.
Oh, I agree with you on that point. Revelation 20 covers the millennium following Jesus' return.

Regarding the seals, here is a chart I made. When discussing the seals, I try to say the seal "events". The seven seal events will be complete the day that Jesus returns.


the seven seals g.jpg
 
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Douggg

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Hi Douggg

I don't understand your position. There is a clear link between the seals and Zechariah 6 - the 4 horses with the same colours. I don't see any link between Daniel 9 and the seals. You seem to think the seals won't occur until Gog/Magog, which is described in Revelation 20:7, I know Revelation isn't perfectly chronological but I don't think the seals of Revelation 6 happen after the events of Revelation 20.
The horses in Zechariah 6 were pulling chariots. The horses in Revelation 6 carried horsemen.

Regarding Daniel 9, the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27, contains the seven seal events.

The first seal event of the rider on the white horse (a messianic figure), will be the prince that shall come in Daniel 9:26, who the Jews will temporarily think is their long awaited King of Israel messiah. That person will be the Antichrist.

The Antichrist person will go through 5 stages on his way to the lake of fire. Being the Antichrist (stage 3) is one of the 5 fives stages.

We should be able to determine who that person is not long from now. He starts out as the little horn, a person who will be over a group of ten EU leaders. He must also be a Jew.


5 stages.jpg
 
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BibleDaniel7

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Oh, I agree with you on that point. Revelation 20 covers the millennium following Jesus' return.

Regarding the seals, here is a chart I made. When discussing the seals, I try to say the seal "events". The seven seal events will be complete the day that Jesus returns.


View attachment 377781
Hi Douggg

It is a pretty chart, but it is quite a muddle. You have the seventh seal happening half way through seal 2 and continuing to the end of the fifth seal? You have the trumpets all happening before the sixth seal (and also out of order)?

My understanding from reading Revelation is that the trumpets follow the seals, and they are very much in sequential order. While the sixth seal certainly seems dramatic, I don't think it can be when Jesus returns, which happens after the seventh bowl/vial and seventh trumpet.
 
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Douggg

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Hi Douggg

It is a pretty chart, but it is quite a muddle. You have the seventh seal happening half way through seal 2 and continuing to the end of the fifth seal? You have the trumpets all happening before the sixth seal (and also out of order)?

My understanding from reading Revelation is that the trumpets follow the seals, and they are very much in sequential order. While the sixth seal certainly seems dramatic, I don't think it can be when Jesus returns, which happens after the seventh bowl/vial and seventh trumpet.
Yes, I can understand why you might consider the chart muddled.

Seals 1-6 are grouped together in Revelation 6. That's why they appear together in sequence on the chart.

Those six seal events together cover the entire 7 years, from day 1 to day 2520. The Seal 6 event involves the heavens shaken, which corresponds to Matthew 24:29. And the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven, of Matthew 24:30a.

Regarding Seal 7, it is in Revelation 8:1 - which introduces the trumpet plagues. Note on the chart "seal 7, events, the trumpets". And the angel icons, in red, holding their trumpets.

the seven seals g.jpg
 
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keras

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Hi Keras

Well we are in agreement that the sixth seal happens next! You also link the seals to Zechariah 6, which is good. If you generally apply the first five seals to all wars, martyrdom etc. then I can see how you conclude they happened a long time ago. However those things happen throughout history with or without seals. If the seals don't align to specific events, the prophecy is a bit meaningless, and I think God's Word most certainly isn't meaningless. In addition your timeline has an odd 2000 year gap between the first 5 seals and the next one.
As Revelation 5:9 & 6:1 tell us, Jesus did commence to open the Scrolls when He Ascended to heaven.
The wars, famines, plagues and economic crashes, are a normal part of humanity ever since Adam ate the apple. As the 2 references to those 4 types of disasters in Zechariah tell us.

NOW; we wait for the Day..... Zephaniah 3:8
 
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BibleDaniel7

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Yes, I can understand why you might consider the chart muddled.

Seals 1-6 are grouped together in Revelation 6. That's why they appear together in sequence on the chart.

Those six seal events together cover the entire 7 years, from day 1 to day 2520. The Seal 6 event involves the heavens shaken, which corresponds to Matthew 24:29. And the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven, of Matthew 24:30a.

Regarding Seal 7, it is in Revelation 8:1 - which introduces the trumpet plagues. Note on the chart "seal 7, events, the trumpets". And the angel icons, in red, holding their trumpets.

View attachment 377785

Hi Douggg

I have tried to understand your point of view and chart. I think the reason your chart is all so muddled is that you interpret the earthquake after the opening of the sixth seal to be the same as the earthquake in Revelation 16:18-20 when Jesus returns. There are actually 5 earthquakes described in Revelation:

Revelation 6:12 after the sixth seal
Revelation 8:5 after the seventh seal, just before the seven trumpets
Revelation 11:13 after the sixth trumpet, part of the second woe
Revelation 11:19 after the seventh trumpet
Revelation 16:18-20 after the seventh bowl

The last two I believe are probably the same - both part of the events of Jesus Return. But the previous three are different events I believe. Even in the Olivet prophecy Jesus warns of earthquakes in various places (Matthew 24:7), so we know there will be lots of earthquakes and some big ones. Trying to shoehorn them all into the same one gets you into the muddle you have, with the order of the seven seals and seven trumpets all muddled. I believe they are sequential: seven seals, followed by seven trumpets in order.

Revelation is clear on this, I believe, for example: Revelation 7 starts "After this..." (after the sixth seal). Rev 7:9 starts "after this...". Then we get the seventh seal in Revelation 8:1, then in Revelation 8:6 it says "Then the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to sound them". So I think these are sequential events, not muddled up.

Anyway, respect to you for trying so hard to get them to align, I can understand where you are coming from, I just don't agree.
 
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Douggg

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I think the reason your chart is all so muddled is that you interpret the earthquake after the opening of the sixth seal to be the same as the earthquake in Revelation 16:18-20 when Jesus returns.
No, I don't think the earthquake in the sixth seal, Revelation 6:12, is the earthquake of Revelation 16:18-21. They are two separate events.

The earth quake in the sixth seal, Revelation 6:12, will be 45 days before the earthquake and hail in Revelation 16:18-21.

I believe they are sequential: seven seals, followed by seven trumpets in order.
I may be misunderstanding you, but you think the seven seals act a group, then the seven trumpets act as a group, then the seven vials of God's wrath act as a group?

[seven seals] > [seven trumpets] > [seven vials] > Jesus's return day

If that is what you believe, it is incorrect.

The seven trumpets and the seven vials take place during the great tribulation period of 1335 days.


1774623129136.jpeg
 
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BibleDaniel7

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Hi Douggg

I think the seven seals and then the seven trumpets are sequential, so first seal, then second seal etc. up to the seventh seal, followed by the seven trumpets, one through seven sequentially. That seems to be how John explains it, as per my previous posting showing the use of "after this..." and "then..." by John to make the sequential nature clear.

I think the seven vials probably represent the "third woe" of the seventh trumpet, again sequential. Your summary of "[seven seals] > [seven trumpets] > [seven vials] > Jesus's return day" is a fair reflection of my view.

It seems a very logical interpretation from a straightforward reading of Revelation. Can you justify, using the Bible, your statement that it is incorrect?
 
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Douggg

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It seems a very logical interpretation from a straightforward reading of Revelation. Can you justify, using the Bible, your statement that it is incorrect?
Sure. Let's look at the sixth seal event described in Revelation 6:12-17. Those verses describe the powers of heavens 1 and 2 shaken. And the kings of the earth, reacting to seeing Jesus (in a threatening stance toward them) before the throne of God in heaven 3.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Next, let's look at Matthew 24:29-30, to realize that those verses are about the same event as the sixth seal event above...

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So that event of the sixth seal, right before Jesus's descending down to earth in Matthew 24:30b are the same.... near the very end of the seven years. Now look on my chart, on the right side, the sixth seal, and the illustration of the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven.

1774637487243.jpeg
 
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keras

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Next, let's look at Matthew 24:29-30, to realize that those verses are about the same event as the sixth seal event above...

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Shown to be wrong by the moon shining bright red on the terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath. Rev 6:12b
On the glorious Day Jesus Returns, the moon does not give any light.

That the Fifth Seal was opened by Jesus at His Ascension, is quite obvious. All the Christian martyrs from Stephen and still ongoing today; have their souls kept under the Altar in heaven.
The Sixth Seal is the next Prophesied event to happen. An attack by Iran with nuke missiles will trigger the Lords action.
 
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BibleDaniel7

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Sure. Let's look at the sixth seal event described in Revelation 6:12-17. Those verses describe the powers of heavens 1 and 2 shaken. And the kings of the earth, reacting to seeing Jesus (in a threatening stance toward them) before the throne of God in heaven 3.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Next, let's look at Matthew 24:29-30, to realize that those verses are about the same event as the sixth seal event above...

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So that event of the sixth seal, right before Jesus's descending down to earth in Matthew 24:30b are the same.... near the very end of the seven years. Now look on my chart, on the right side, the sixth seal, and the illustration of the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven.

View attachment 377910

Hi Douggg

Jesus is giving a helicopter view of events leading up to his return, I don't think you should reshuffle the whole of Revelation based on this passage. From the perspective of the disciples back in c. 30AD the events of the sixth seal are right before the return anyway. Even you don't apply the sixth seal earthquake exactly to the Revelation 16:18 earthquake when Jesus returns. Also I don't agree that the sign of the son of man in heaven is visible in the sixth seal events, it is not mentioned at all. What it does describe is a lot of terrified people rushing to hide in the mountains. An actual, or threatened, nuclear war could well lead to those events (I am not saying that is what will happen, but it is one viable possibility).

I think John has been given a much more detailed view of events leading up to the Return, including their order, in his vision recorded in Revelation. It is better to use that as the source for the order of events rather than reshuffling them up in my opinion.

Having said that, I do acknowledge that the vision of Revelation is not totally sequential. In my interpretation there are two interludes: Revelation 12-14, and Revelation 17-18 which are not part of the seals -> trumpets -> vials order, as the vision to John explores particular topics going on in parallel with these events.
 
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Douggg

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Having said that, I do acknowledge that the vision of Revelation is not totally sequential.

...................................7 year (dotted) time line............................................Matthew 24:29-30a.......Jesus's return (Matthew 24:30b)

...................................7 year (dotted) time line............................................sixth seal event...............Jesus's return (Revelation 19)

Matthew 24:29-30a = the sixth seal event of Revelation 6:12-17.
 
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Hi Doug

Where do you get the seven year timeline from? And why do put the gap between Matt:24:30a and the second half of the verse (when Jesus returns?) Surely the sign is in Heaven when Jesus actually returns?

Surely if there is a small gap it is between verse 29 and verse 30, then there is no problem reconciling the order of Revelation witb it?
 
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Douggg

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Where do you get the seven year timeline from?
Where I get that from is Daniel 9:27, the 70th week. And Ezekiel 39:9, the 7 years that follow the Gog/Magog event. Those are the same 7 years.

And why do put the gap between Matt:24:30a and the second half of the verse (when Jesus returns?) Surely the sign is in Heaven when Jesus actually returns?
The sign appears and then 45 days later Jesus descends to earth.

Matthew 24:30a is the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven, as seen by the inhabiters of the earth.

In reaction, to seeing Jesus, sickle in hand (the sign of of the Son of man), the wicked men of the earth will be terrified (as described in the sixth seal event in Revelation 6:12-17). And in reaction, the kings of the earth will gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and his army of heaven. The preparation time period will be 45 days.

The 45 days is the time difference between Daniel 12:11 (1290 days) and Daniel 12:12 (1335 days).
 
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