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seeking.IAM

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I wonder if during the Episcopal Vigil is when they do confirmations, baptisms and receive converts? In my tradition, they do.

That has not been true in my experience. Confirmations are done at the annual visit of the Bishop to the parish. I have not identified a pattern as to when baptisms are done. Baptisms seem more random.
 
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Paidiske

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How many have the Chrism Mass during Holy Week? I find most Continuing bishops will wait until their national assembly, which is usually May or June, to bless the oils. Many don't do it every year since most of the clergy use little or none in a year's time. Of course, many of the Lutherans in the US don't have more than 1 oil. And the Presbyterian church I preach for actually has "oil of gladness" though I know not what the former pastor used it for.
The three dioceses I've served in all do it during Holy Week. The oil for the sick, and chrism, gets used well enough, but I do sometimes wonder why they bother with the oil for catechumens; I'm sure almost no one uses it.
 
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Deegie

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Yes, we do it during Holy Week as well. Your mention of the oils reminded me of a Reddit thread I saw yesterday in which the same thing was being discussed. Some bishops do one oil, some two, and some still all three...although I agree with you that OC must hardly ever get used. I also don't understand why bishops do the healing oil (or OI) at this. Priests can and should bless their own, right?
 
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Join us in prayer for the Archbishop of Canterbury on the day of her installation. | The Church of England



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Paidiske

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Yes, we do it during Holy Week as well. Your mention of the oils reminded me of a Reddit thread I saw yesterday in which the same thing was being discussed. Some bishops do one oil, some two, and some still all three...although I agree with you that OC must hardly ever get used. I also don't understand why bishops do the healing oil (or OI) at this. Priests can and should bless their own, right?
I guess in theory we could, but it's always done by the bishop, and I've only ever used that oil rather than bless my own. Why do you say that we should?
 
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Deegie

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I guess in theory we could, but it's always done by the bishop, and I've only ever used that oil rather than bless my own. Why do you say that we should?
Yeah, I apologize. I took a myopic American view of the question. In our 1979 BCP and the approved supplements since, the only place the blessing of healing oil is mentioned, it's blessed by the priest in the action of the ministration to the sick (whether that be a public service of healing or a private ministration in a home or medical facility). According to the definitive commentary on our BCP, that's because the drafters envisioned it being done at time of use. In other words, it's visibly blessed in the midst of the people who will receive it -- a connection I quite like since part of the power of the ritual action is that the priest is bringing the person's local community with them, at least symbolically. In fact, for me, it's almost the opposite of the connection that chrism at baptism is trying to make, where it's the bishop being symbolically present.

Not to mention that my experience has been the opposite of yours. I've literally never seen a bishop bless it. That's one of my favorite things about this forum: learning how others do and think.
 
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Shane R

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I have so much blessed oil in a cabinet I could commit sacrilege and have a fish fry. I was told once by a spiky Anglo-Catholic that old oil is supposed to be used in the presence lamp. I've never even seen an oil burning presence lamp! I was also told, by a different cleric, it could be poured out on consecrated ground.
 
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Paidiske

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Yeah, I apologize. I took a myopic American view of the question. In our 1979 BCP and the approved supplements since, the only place the blessing of healing oil is mentioned, it's blessed by the priest in the action of the ministration to the sick (whether that be a public service of healing or a private ministration in a home or medical facility). According to the definitive commentary on our BCP, that's because the drafters envisioned it being done at time of use. In other words, it's visibly blessed in the midst of the people who will receive it -- a connection I quite like since part of the power of the ritual action is that the priest is bringing the person's local community with them, at least symbolically. In fact, for me, it's almost the opposite of the connection that chrism at baptism is trying to make, where it's the bishop being symbolically present.

Not to mention that my experience has been the opposite of yours. I've literally never seen a bishop bless it. That's one of my favorite things about this forum: learning how others do and think.
Ah, that's interesting.

One of the odd quirks about Australian Anglicanism is that there are a number of very common practices - like blessing of oils, or use of holy water - which are basically not acknowledged in our prayer books at all. Our rite of ministry with the sick includes anointing with oil, but provides no instructions or notes about the blessing of that oil, or even a requirement that it be blessed at all. And some of our colleagues would feel perfectly comfortable using ordinary olive oil, or the like.

I can see your point, but I think I like that the oils become something shared, in a ministry context where there is a great deal of division and mutual suspicion. And also, purely from a practical perspective at the bedside, I prefer a relatively uncluttered rite where the central things are able to shine clearly, and I wonder if having to bless the oils would end up being kind of distracting at that point?
I was told once by a spiky Anglo-Catholic that old oil is supposed to be used in the presence lamp. I've never even seen an oil burning presence lamp! I was also told, by a different cleric, it could be poured out on consecrated ground.
I've been told to return it to earth, also. (I've never seen an oil burning presence lamp, either).
 
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Deegie

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Ah, that's interesting.

One of the odd quirks about Australian Anglicanism is that there are a number of very common practices - like blessing of oils, or use of holy water - which are basically not acknowledged in our prayer books at all. Our rite of ministry with the sick includes anointing with oil, but provides no instructions or notes about the blessing of that oil, or even a requirement that it be blessed at all. And some of our colleagues would feel perfectly comfortable using ordinary olive oil, or the like.
So can I ask...do you turn to unofficial resources for those things that aren't in the prayer book? That is fairly common here when that happens, although it seems it probably happens less for us than for you. The blessing of holy water (outside of baptism) is probably the most common one for us. There's a mix of (a) just say whatever prayer comes to mind, (b) whatever prayer your mentor taught you, and (c) a prayer from some outside book that mostly copies Rome.

I can see your point, but I think I like that the oils become something shared, in a ministry context where there is a great deal of division and mutual suspicion. And also, purely from a practical perspective at the bedside, I prefer a relatively uncluttered rite where the central things are able to shine clearly, and I wonder if having to bless the oils would end up being kind of distracting at that point?
Yes, it would be, which is why I usually bless fresh oil about once a year in a public healing Eucharist and then use that for a while. Ministry with the sick is one of those rites where figuring out what part is the central thing is tough. There's praying, hand-laying, anointing, Eucharist, occasionally confession. Certainly not uncluttered!

I've been told to return it to earth, also. (I've never seen an oil burning presence lamp, either).
Those cotton balls burn wonderfully in my fireplace. Just like dried palm brances.
 
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Paidiske

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So can I ask...do you turn to unofficial resources for those things that aren't in the prayer book? That is fairly common here when that happens, although it seems it probably happens less for us than for you. The blessing of holy water (outside of baptism) is probably the most common one for us. There's a mix of (a) just say whatever prayer comes to mind, (b) whatever prayer your mentor taught you, and (c) a prayer from some outside book that mostly copies Rome.
Yes, that sounds about right. Your book of Occasional Services, Michno's Handbook, and various bits and pieces from Common Worship would be common go-tos, at least on the more catholic side of things. The evangelicals probably do most things extempore, if they do them at all, from what I've seen.
 
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Shane R

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For the Continuum, that list of texts would be A Manual for Priests (original copyright 1944) and whatever version of the Missal your jurisdiction uses. The Roman Rite, pre-Vatican II is also generally tolerated. Percy Dearmer also gets a little traction among the more evangelical folks.
 
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Deegie

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I'm not surprised that Michno is popular in other parts of the world. It really is well done...at least if you're looking to emulate Rome. When I'm feeling really super fancy (as I likely will at the Vigil), I sometimes cense the altar the way he recommends.

Dearmer is indeed interesting since he tries to base his work on his understanding of Sarum Use and he also provides a rationale for his suggestions.

How about Ritual Notes? Does anyone else ever see that in circulation?
 
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Paidiske

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I've heard of Ritual Notes but never laid eyes on an actual copy. My copy of Michno was given to me when I was a student; I don't have cause to use it very often, but I think I've consulted it for things like dedication of church furnishings. The way he recommends is how I was taught to cense an altar, though I've never had cause to do so after my first curacy!
 
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Curious, what do Anglican priests do with the leftover Sacrament if there is too much? Take it to the sick? Consume it? I assume burying it/burning it would be sacrileges. I remember reading here several years ago, some Lutheran (I know, not Anglican) ministers actually returned the Blessed Sacrament to the ground in a flowerbed!
 
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For the Continuum, that list of texts would be A Manual for Priests (original copyright 1944) and whatever version of the Missal your jurisdiction uses. The Roman Rite, pre-Vatican II is also generally tolerated. Percy Dearmer also gets a little traction among the more evangelical folks.
I'm not Anglican, but I own that book and enjoyed it immensely! It's the liturgical nerd in me! Even though I'm a layman ;)
 
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Ah, that's interesting.

One of the odd quirks about Australian Anglicanism is that there are a number of very common practices - like blessing of oils, or use of holy water - which are basically not acknowledged in our prayer books at all. Our rite of ministry with the sick includes anointing with oil, but provides no instructions or notes about the blessing of that oil, or even a requirement that it be blessed at all. And some of our colleagues would feel perfectly comfortable using ordinary olive oil, or the like.

I can see your point, but I think I like that the oils become something shared, in a ministry context where there is a great deal of division and mutual suspicion. And also, purely from a practical perspective at the bedside, I prefer a relatively uncluttered rite where the central things are able to shine clearly, and I wonder if having to bless the oils would end up being kind of distracting at that point?

I've been told to return it to earth, also. (I've never seen an oil burning presence lamp, either).
Rev, would most Australian Anglicans be low-Church or broad Church and not necessarily Anglo-Catholic? Or are Anglo-Catholics not very common in your neck of the woods? Just curious

:)
 
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Paidiske

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Curious, what do Anglican priests do with the leftover Sacrament if there is too much? Take it to the sick? Consume it? I assume burying it/burning it would be sacrileges. I remember reading here several years ago, some Lutheran (I know, not Anglican) ministers actually returned the Blessed Sacrament to the ground in a flowerbed!
Generally it's to be reverently consumed; that might include taking it to the sick, or those not able to attend church.

Returning it to consecrated ground is something that can happen. I remember, for example, one occasion where some consecrated wine was accidentally contaminated with brass cleaner, and none of us were going to drink that!
Rev, would most Australian Anglicans be low-Church or broad Church and not necessarily Anglo-Catholic? Or are Anglo-Catholics not very common in your neck of the woods? Just curious

:)
It depends where you are. Different parts of the Australian Anglican church were originally pioneered by different mission agencies or the like; where those mission agencies were more evangelical (like Sydney) the resulting church has retained that flavour; in other parts of Australia, like the rural dioceses of Ballarat and Wangaratta, there was more catholic influence.

On the whole I would say the low-church side of things is probably numerically bigger (and better funded) for historical reasons, and most Australian Anglicans would be able to comfortably co-exist in a broad middle range. But the catholic side is not insubstantial and does have a real - and in some places quite vibrant - part in our common life.

What I do observe is that it's much easier for a parish or community to become more low church, and much harder for it to become more high church. So over time there does seem to be a tendency to drift down the candlestick unless very concerted efforts are made to avoid that.
 
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Generally it's to be reverently consumed; that might include taking it to the sick, or those not able to attend church.

Returning it to consecrated ground is something that can happen. I remember, for example, one occasion where some consecrated wine was accidentally contaminated with brass cleaner, and none of us were going to drink that!

It depends where you are. Different parts of the Australian Anglican church were originally pioneered by different mission agencies or the like; where those mission agencies were more evangelical (like Sydney) the resulting church has retained that flavour; in other parts of Australia, like the rural dioceses of Ballarat and Wangaratta, there was more catholic influence.

On the whole I would say the low-church side of things is probably numerically bigger (and better funded) for historical reasons, and most Australian Anglicans would be able to comfortably co-exist in a broad middle range. But the catholic side is not insubstantial and does have a real - and in some places quite vibrant - part in our common life.

What I do observe is that it's much easier for a parish or community to become more low church, and much harder for it to become more high church. So over time there does seem to be a tendency to drift down the candlestick unless very concerted efforts are made to avoid that.
Ahh, thank you for the response!

Happy Holy Week!
 
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