Are you a Christian Nationalist?

SavedByGrace3 said:

Exactly my point. Of course, Christians are not NAZI in any context. However, many on the left have both the ability and the political will to do so. They see Christianity as the greatest opposition to their political goals, and as we have seen in the last few years, they are not above doing "whatever it takes" to further those political goals, including vilifying, marginalizing, and demonizing everyone, including Christians.

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This is not true. Many on the left are pointing out to the anger and retribution displayed through this corrupt administration. You may " think" the left is against Christianity but alas, they are the ones preaching the Gospel of love. I know several news outlets are painting this differently and I am certain you have been dangerously influenced by it but know this;
while this president enriches himself, imperializes himself and deceives the American people, it will be the Christians who align themselves with him who risk losing sight of their " first love", Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

The warning is in Matthew 16:26:

'For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?'"

SavedByGrace3 said:

The frightening part is the "whatever it takes" drum they beat. They feel their cause overshadows every other consideration and view. The super importance of their cause justifies anything they need to do to defeat their opposition, including lying, cheating, stealing (elections), and vilifying millions of innocent people

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Don't forget political violence. I don't know how many people I've heard say Charlie Kirk deserved to be shot, because of the message he preached (he preached both a conservative and a Christian message - not the two as one, but he preached both messages). I've also heard leftists say political violence can be justified, and I've heard many, many people say that they wished the assassin had not missed Trump (aside from hitting him in the ear).

Maria Billingsley said:

This is not true. Many on the left are pointing out to the anger and retribution displayed through this corrupt administration. You may " think" the left is against Christianity but alas, they are the ones preaching the Gospel of love.

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Trump has his flaws, I don't know anyone who denies that. I don't personally care for the way he insults people and provokes our allies (whether intentionally or not). But the Bible is full of flawed people that God used for His own intentions, and I won't exclude the possibility that he has or will use Trump.

Is the left preaching the gospel of love when they promote abortion, even up to the minute of birth? Are they consistent with the Bible when they say LGBTQ behavior is not sinful, and that we should teach it as a legitimate choice for children? Are they preaching the gospel of love when they call half the country Nazis, racists, fascists, "basket of deplorables", and "garbage"? I certainly will not say that there are no Christian Democrats, or that all Republicans are Christians, but the natural home for atheists is the Democratic party. If someone complains about someone praying in public or God being mentioned in the classroom, you can be sure it is a leftist. The Marxists, who are on the left, attack Christians and the family, because they want to erase traditional values as part of the system they are revolting against, and promote alternative lifestyles.

SavedByGrace3 said:

Please re-read the OP.
I (personally) do not believe you to be a NAZI or even a "Christian Nationalist" if you believe any of these things. But many people in our nation do. I put the question to Google AI, and in every instance (of the examples I presented), it stated that if you agree, you were considered a Christian Nationalist. Especially by the liberal establishment.
I am studying trends that suggest the probability and causes of Christian persecution in the USA. Labeling Christians as Christian Nationalists would certainly justify persecution in the minds of many. I interpret this as signs of the anti-Christ spirit raising its ugly head.
You may deny that you are a Christian Nationalist, but if people want to present you in a negative light (and Jesus said they will), they will include you in their narrative as a "danger to democracy" and therefore deserving of opposition and inevitably persecution.


"Approximately two-thirds (roughly 65-66%) of white evangelical Protestants in the U.S. qualify as either Christian nationalism adherents or sympathizers, according to data from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI)."
Christian nationalism is a political ideology that seeks to merge American civic identity with a specific, often fundamentalist, expression of Christianity. While not a formal denomination with a single set of doctrines, its core beliefs are generally as follows:

Foundational Worldview

• A "Christian Nation": Adherents believe the United States was founded as a Christian nation and that this identity is divinely ordained.
• Divine Favor: Many believe that if the U.S. follows biblical laws, God will favor and protect the country above others.
• Privileged Citizenship: The ideology often implies that only Christians are "true" Americans, and as such, they should have preferential access to political power and civil rights.

Government and Law

• Integration of Church and State: Adherents often seek to weaken or erase the separation of church and state. They believe the federal government should officially declare America a Christian nation and advocate for Christian values.
• Theocratic Governance: Some proponents advocate for a "Christian Democracy" or theocracy where the government enforces Christian rules and behaviors.
• Dominionism: A segment of the movement believes Christians are called by God to exercise "dominion" over all areas of American society, including government, education, and media.

Social and Cultural Issues

• Traditional Hierarchies: The movement often promotes traditional patriarchal social structures where men are the preferred leaders and women are recognized primarily as wives and mothers.
• Opposition to Liberal Values: Most adherents strongly oppose LGBTQ+ rights and reproductive freedom, viewing them as threats to "God's order".
• Education Reform: Many advocate for reinstating prayer in public schools, including biblical education in curricula, and removing books deemed "immoral".

Demographics and Identity

• Ethnoracial Boundaries: Scholars often note a significant overlap between Christian nationalism and white supremacy or ethnonationalism. Many adherents view growing racial and religious diversity as a threat to national unity.
• Anti-Immigrant Sentiment: There is a high correlation between Christian nationalist beliefs and support for strict anti-immigrant policies, often fueled by "Great Replacement" conspiracy theories.

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It bothers me when some people complain about some type of Christian persecution, which doesn't actually exist. It seems there is a snow storm amongst right wingers.

SavedByGrace3 said:

So what Jesus said bothers you?

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No, it's when people claim what he said involves them.

SavedByGrace3 said:

Did he imagine it?

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No, Christians will face persecution but right wingers crying wolf, over and over, reveals they have issues. Not persecution. Maybe you should read up on the history of the Church and you will see what persecution is.

SavedByGrace3 said:

Is Jesus experiencing a "snow storm?"

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No, Jesus isn't a snowflake.

SavedByGrace3 said:

Mat_10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Luk_21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Joh 15:20
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

Luk 6:22
Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Joh 15:
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

I have noticed over the 55 years as a believer that if you are doing the things Jesus said to do, people in the world will hate you and seek to demonize you as evil. If you are not being persecuted, you might want to check up on your life.

Mat 5:
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Three things will get you persecuted in this world.

His Name.
His Word
His righteousness.

He did not imagine this. We are not imagining this.

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I am a born again Christian, filled with God's Spirit. I'm my 72 years, I have never been persecuted for believing and following scripture. If Christian Nationalists think persecution is pointing out their hypocrisy, as Jesus did the religious right in Israel, they are going to need bigger snow shovels.

iarwain said:

Is the left preaching the gospel of love when they promote abortion, even up to the minute of birth

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Another Trump lie. There is no such thing as abortion up to the minute of birth! This is a right wing scare tactic. Just think about it. An abortion up to the moment of birth is the actual birth of a baby!
Let us reason please. This abortion issue has gone way too far. Now women are dying.So I guess maternal death is acceptable now. No one likes abortion. It is just a matter of a woman choosing for herself. If the Republicans did this the right way , they would make it murder , but no Republican has guts enough to put up this kind of legislation. Let's put this to rest shall we?

Maria Billingsley said:

Another Trump lie. There is no such thing as abortion up to the minute of birth! This is a right wing scare tactic. Just think about it. An abortion up to the moment of birth is the actual birth of a baby!

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I don't think that is true. During the Biden administration, I recall the Democrats talking about abortion without any restrictions. Their position was they wanted the abortion to be completely between the patient and the doctor, period. So that could include up to the birth, as long as you found the right doctor. But there were no restrictions, I wouldn't call that a Trump lie.

SavedByGrace3 said:

Exactly my point. Of course, Christians are not NAZI in any context. However, many on the left have both the ability and the political will to do so. They see Christianity as the greatest opposition to their political goals, and as we have seen in the last few years, they are not above doing "whatever it takes" to further those political goals, including vilifying, marginalizing, and demonizing everyone, including Christians.

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That and also what they want is very liberal Christianity. Christianity is no longer seen as a threat when it supports their ideology and goals.

iarwain said:

I don't think that is true. During the Biden administration, I recall the Democrats talking about abortion without any restrictions. Their position was they wanted the abortion to be completely between the patient and the doctor, period. So that could include up to the birth, as long as you found the right doctor. But there were no restrictions, I wouldn't call that a Trump lie.

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Can comon sense be a guild just once in a while? Listen to me, 9 months is full term! Abortion is impossible.
Im done here.

JustaPewFiller said:

I'm a Christian.

But -

I'd rather live in a Democracy than a Theocracy.

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Unfortunately, there is the argument that Christians who vote according to how the see biblical principles are voting for a theocracy. In all seriousness, this is usually applied to conservatives. Without insult, this would not be applied to Christians who believed immigration laws should be changed based on an interpretation of stranger.

Tuur said:

Unfortunately, there is the argument that Christians who vote according to how the see biblical principles are voting for a theocracy. In all seriousness, this is usually applied to conservatives. Without insult, this would not be applied to Christians who believed immigration laws should be changed based on an interpretation of stranger.

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Well - that is a hair that is worth splitting.

Voting in alignment with Biblical principals - I'm in favor of that.

A Theocracy where some small group of religious figures have 100% authority over everything - I'm not in favor of that.
Historically, those seemed to have turned out to be most unpleasant places in the past and the existing ones seem to also be unpleasant places.

To further dissect the poor hair. Unfortunately, "Christian Nationalism" seems to cover a broad spectrum. From those that simply want to vote in alignment with their beliefs to those who do want some type of theocracy.

Richard T said:

our citizenship is in heaven. Jesus is not coming back for a Christian state, Christians will be raptured, then will return in the second coming. Christian nationalism is based on a different eschatology, a false one in my opinion.

As to number 3 what and whose Christian laws are you talking about? Shall we require the Sabbath to be honored? Shall we require more giving to the poor? Shall we require more taxes from the rich? Shall we provide health care for all? Shall we teach only a Christian education? If so what denomination? Shall we ban alcohol and pot? Shall we prosecute Christians who are in error? Who refuse to worship the way the Christian nationalists want? Are Christian nationalists even capable of good discernment and running the country? Because selecting Trump seems to be a step backward.

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In what part of the Bible does Jesus advocate for taxing the rich, Which we already do?

KevinT said:

I think this is the fine line that many overlook. There is a reason why the founders of the constitution created a separation of church and state. But many forget about that. They don’t recall all of the problems that were caused when prior governments forced matters of conscience into legislation.

The logic is simple, if flawed:If something is wrong, then why shouldn’t we make a law about it and force everyone to comply? Attending church is a good idea. So let’s make a law and require everyone to be in the pews weekly. And some Muslim countries, they believe it is proper for a woman’s head to be covered and thus they have laws about the Burka, etc..

God is interested in obedience from love and from the heart. Making laws will never achieve that. I see nothing but problems going down that pathway.

KT

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While I am not a Muslim, I can see the benefit in going out and not having my identity revealed. A full burka, with my face covered and all would help conceal my identity. This is still a religious practice that women particularly have the right to exercise, in a surveillance state.

I might be using manipulation, to skirt my way around not being recognized in my own country, but it is still an option as a female in America, because we have freedom of religion in this country.
There are several reasons as to why concealing your identity via a Burka, or a head covering and face covering would be beneficial in a country that records your every move in a grocery store, even under hot fluorescent lights!

So, I am totally manipulating the system by claiming, & refusing to persecute the hijab, Because I'm not a Muslim, I am a Christian..

But, if I ever want to go to the grocery store, and not have the standby clerk recognize me for the 15th week in a row, How else am i supposed to do that?
My mom persecutes the hijab in where she will not wash one if I buy one with her laundry..

So, I live in a family who is forcing me to undress, rather than to cover up. I wisely advise against Christian nationalism, Though I am for everything in the initial post..

tobelieveinHim said:

In what part of the Bible does Jesus advocate for taxing the rich, Which we already do?

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Jesus has care for those who have unfortunate circumstance. So I offer a few thoughts on the subject.
Given the mixed economic system of capitalism/socialism that has a pretty intense labor specialization, the economy has moved beyond free gleaning in the fields to requiring a safety net for some who have serious lack. Ideally the church would respond to take care of these needs, but that level of spending is far outside what Westerners give. So the government responds. I admit the government system could be more efficient and have less fraud. But should we consider whether some of the following is justified.
1. Not treating those in the ER that have no money?
2. Allowing children to go hungry even if their parent (s) are not being responsible?
3. Doing nothing to displaced workers whose jobs are no longer needed?
4. Doing away with all disability help except that which is paid for through specified taxes.

Given that the level of inequality is near all time highs, I think Martin Luther (the German theologian) ideas of excessive profit and usury should be re-examined.

We should be aware too that there are many corporate welfare benefits that go to the rich. Like electric car subsidies, job creation subsidies which can run up to a million dollars per job, tax abatements for all kinds of investments, regulations or the lack of them that benefit certain producers. Patent protection that could be phased out sooner. A military, medicare/medicaid system that is rife with excessive costs and in many cases fraud that benefits insurers and contractors.

Jesus though is mostly silent on the level of government involvement. He never faced a modern economy. We know the church practiced various forms of communalism. This was voluntary though. Jesus was free from the love of money. Better to give than to receive, to whom much is given much is required. Give and it shall be given.

Here we have Isaiah offering God's perspective.

Isaiah 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? 8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.

Here is Jesus

Matthew 19:21, telling a wealthy young ruler, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven".

but all this begs the question: Should Christians who lack the capacity to create their own welfare system, advocate for the poor through government including taxes that transfer wealth? To me if the program is responsible and really does what is intended the answer is likely yes. That to answer the questions I posed about medical and hunger needs, it is good government policy that aligns with love and care that requires a transfer of wealth.

Richard T said:

Jesus has care for those who have unfortunate circumstance. So I offer a few thoughts on the subject.
Given the mixed economic system of capitalism/socialism that has a pretty intense labor specialization, the economy has moved beyond free gleaning in the fields to requiring a safety net for some who have serious lack. Ideally the church would respond to take care of these needs, but that level of spending is far outside what Westerners give. So the government responds. I admit the government system could be more efficient and have less fraud. But should we consider whether some of the following is justified.
1. Not treating those in the ER that have no money?
2. Allowing children to go hungry even if their parent (s) are not being responsible?
3. Doing nothing to displaced workers whose jobs are no longer needed?
4. Doing away with all disability help except that which is paid for through specified taxes.

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Richard T said:

Given that the level of inequality is near all time highs,

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As for inequality being at an all time high, I agree but we have raised an entire generation who gets a trophy for participating..

Singers and musicians have disproportionate amounts of support, and followings and it has nothing to do with their talent.. Many of them will lose followers if their twitter gets leaked, or anything else.
This band who was Orthodox Christian lost over 30,000k followers because the drummer's conservative views got leaked..
Meanwhile Taylor Swift is still sitting there with 80mill followers and her whole thing with Scooter Braun was all a lie, according to him..

Richard T said:

We should be aware too that there are many corporate welfare benefits that go to the rich. Like electric car subsidies, job creation subsidies which can run up to a million dollars per job, tax abatements for all kinds of investments, regulations or the lack of them that benefit certain producers. Patent protection that could be phased out sooner. A military, medicare/medicaid system that is rife with excessive costs and in many cases fraud that benefits insurers and contractors.

Jesus though is mostly silent on the level of government involvement. He never faced a modern economy. We know the church practiced various forms of communalism. This was voluntary though. Jesus was free from the love of money. Better to give than to receive, to whom much is given much is required. Give and it shall be given.

Here we have Isaiah offering God's perspective.

Isaiah 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? 8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.

Here is Jesus

Matthew 19:21, telling a wealthy young ruler, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven".

but all this begs the question: Should Christians who lack the capacity to create their own welfare system, advocate for the poor through government including taxes that transfer wealth? To me if the program is responsible and really does what is intended the answer is likely yes. That to answer the questions I posed about medical and hunger needs, it is good government policy that aligns with love and care that requires a transfer of wealth.

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We already tax the rich. In a free society, there's not going to be equality of finances ever.. I agree it's gotten to a point of irreparable but, I blame more than taxing the rich, which we already do...