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Who is Under the Law?

Who is under the law?

  • All those who transgress YHWH's perfect Torah

  • Those who have come to the truth, but rebel against the the law.

  • Only the Jews

  • If we say the sinner's prayer; we are under grace to do what is right in our own eyes.


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Soyeong

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there is legal code of the old covenant that we do not keep in the new. not because of our intentions to the legal code but because Jesus fulfills them in a way that the legal code has become obsolete. Christ magnifies law but that doesn't mean it's legal code is still upon us. merely pointing out that the law can be followed sincerely is avoiding engaging the topic critically.

the sacrafice did not cease in the temple after Christ's death, but the legal code did, making the ritual of sacrafice obsolete. if it was continued with good intentions doesn't change this, it also doesn't make it evil. in Acts 21 Paul is making a missional choice for peace and promote unity in Christ. this was a "to the Jew I become a Jew" act of humility. Paul's motivation is "for the sake of the gospel" not for the sake of the law.
In Deuteronomy 30, it forms the basis for the New Covenant by prophesying about a time when the Israelites would return from exile, God would circumcise their hearts, and they would return to obedience to the Torah, which is what Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27 are in regard to, so the New Covenant still involves following the same legal code.

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it, so you should not interpret fulfilling the law as meaning the same thing as abolishing the legal code or as relaxing the least part of it. Rather, "to fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so after Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5:17-19, he then proceeded to fulfill it throughout the rest of the chapter by correcting what the people had heard being said and by teaching how to correctly obey it as it was originally intended. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so again it refers to correctly obeying it as it should be, moreover, it refers to something that countless people have done and should continue to do in perpetuity, not to something unique that only Jesus did or to making it obsolete. Likewise, in Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, yet you do not consistently interpret that is making it obsolete.

Christ magnifying the law is the opposite of making it legal code to be no longer upon us.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so none of them ceased with Christ's death. Again, one thing can only make another thing obsolete to the extent that it has cumulative functionality. In Acts 21:20-24, Paul's goal was to disprove false rumors that he had been teaching against obeying the Law of God and to show that he continue to live in obedience to it, not to deceive others into thinking that he continue to live in obedience to it while he actually did not.
 
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HARK!

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(CLV) Ro 6:13
Nor yet be presenting your members, as implements of injustice, to Sin, but present yourselves to God as if alive from among the dead, and your members as implements of righteousness to God.



Hmm...

I didn't see this before.


righteousness
to God

Righteous - ישר Yashar

God - אל Al

Israel - ישראל Yasharal
 
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DamianWarS

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In Deuteronomy 30, it forms the basis for the New Covenant by prophesying about a time when the Israelites would return from exile, God would circumcise their hearts, and they would return to obedience to the Torah, which is what Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27 are in regard to, so the New Covenant still involves following the same legal code.

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it, so you should not interpret fulfilling the law as meaning the same thing as abolishing the legal code or as relaxing the least part of it. Rather, "to fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so after Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5:17-19, he then proceeded to fulfill it throughout the rest of the chapter by correcting what the people had heard being said and by teaching how to correctly obey it as it was originally intended. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so again it refers to correctly obeying it as it should be, moreover, it refers to something that countless people have done and should continue to do in perpetuity, not to something unique that only Jesus did or to making it obsolete. Likewise, in Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, yet you do not consistently interpret that is making it obsolete.

Christ magnifying the law is the opposite of making it legal code to be no longer upon us.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so none of them ceased with Christ's death. Again, one thing can only make another thing obsolete to the extent that it has cumulative functionality. In Acts 21:20-24, Paul's goal was to disprove false rumors that he had been teaching against obeying the Law of God and to show that he continue to live in obedience to it, not to deceive others into thinking that he continue to live in obedience to it while he actually did not.
I missed this post, sorry for the delay

There's a point where we need to recognize the legal code has changed. Circumcision of the heart was mentioned in the OT, but that doesn't abrogate physical circumcision in the old covenant. Physical circumcision persisted as legal code even while there was circumcision of the heart, whereas in the new it doesn't which Paul identifies on several occasions. Another major example is the sacrifice with clearly defined legal code in the old covenant that has changed in the new. We still value it, but its requirement is fulfilled not through our obvervance of legal code, but through Christ.

"Magnifying the law" needs to be unpacked better. Do not murder is the legal code. Like the rest of the 10 is a legal threshold that if crossed, we violate the covenant agreement but there are many steps before murder happens that are all sinful that the legal code itself does not define. So there is something more foundational than simply saying "do not murder", not merely a threshold compliance but an expansion to its core internal and spiritual values, producing heart-level obedience. This is magnified as "love your neighbour as yourself." This doesn't reject it but embraces it at a deeper level where the threshold compliance becomes obsolete. sin doesn't change (murder is still wrong), but the legal code threshold is not the thing that is aligning us (it's too weak) but something more foundational. Sure we can keep it and it's good not to murder, but that sort of misses the point because we need to go beyond the threshold compliance level. The legal code does not show us a complete moral code but "do not murder" and "love your neighbour as yourself" are still rooted in the same value, the former is obsolete and the latter is what we should align to. Both will have a result of not murdering (or lying, stealing, coveting, etc...), but "love your neighbour as yourself" will produce something far greater then the legal code articulates. It's still the same values but magnified and because of this, it is the better way.

Rom 7:1-6
1 Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

The widow is bound to her husband while he lives, but death triggers a release from that covenant. this doesn't not produce lawlessness, but instead she is free to marry again without breaking the old covenant agreement. Now, what is this law? v7 clears it up, saying "What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means!..." and v12 calls it "So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good."

Paul is not speaking of the law of sin here that he later addressed in v23. he is speaking of the old covenant and addresses the legal code in v6 itself. we are not just released from the condemnation of the law (Rom 8:1) but of it's authoriy as well (v1 and 6 make this clear). Paul's example of the widow is not to show she was married to sin, but was bound to a former covenant that has been released through death. His language is not protesting law (or reject, abolish, throw away, etc...) but that we are released from it.
 
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Soyeong

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I missed this post, sorry for the delay

There's a point where we need to recognize the legal code has changed. Circumcision of the heart was mentioned in the OT, but that doesn't abrogate physical circumcision in the old covenant. Physical circumcision persisted as legal code even while there was circumcision of the heart, whereas in the new it doesn't which Paul identifies on several occasions. Another major example is the sacrifice with clearly defined legal code in the old covenant that has changed in the new. We still value it, but its requirement is fulfilled not through our obvervance of legal code, but through Christ.
Paul only spoke against circumcision for the purposes of becoming justified/saved, not for the purposes that God commanded it for, so the legal code has not changed. Someone having a circumcised heart only refers to them being a doer of the Law of God (Deuteronomy 10:12-16, Romans 2:25-29) while someone having an uncircumcised heart only refers to them not being a doer of it (Jeremiah 9:25, Acts 7:51-53). Paul said that circumcision has no value and that what matters is obeying the commands of God (1 Corinthians 7:19), that circumcision has much value in every way (Romans 3:1-2) and that circumcision conditionally has value if we obey the Law of God (Romans 2:25), so the issue is that circumcision has no inherent value and its value is entirely derived from our obedience to the Law of God. Physical circumcision is a sign of having a circumcised heart and it only has value insofar as what it is a sign of is true.

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it, so you should not interpret Jesus fulfilling the law as relaxing even the least part of it.

"Magnifying the law" needs to be unpacked better. Do not murder is the legal code. Like the rest of the 10 is a legal threshold that if crossed, we violate the covenant agreement but there are many steps before murder happens that are all sinful that the legal code itself does not define. So there is something more foundational than simply saying "do not murder", not merely a threshold compliance but an expansion to its core internal and spiritual values, producing heart-level obedience. This is magnified as "love your neighbour as yourself." This doesn't reject it but embraces it at a deeper level where the threshold compliance becomes obsolete. sin doesn't change (murder is still wrong), but the legal code threshold is not the thing that is aligning us (it's too weak) but something more foundational. Sure we can keep it and it's good not to murder, but that sort of misses the point because we need to go beyond the threshold compliance level. The legal code does not show us a complete moral code but "do not murder" and "love your neighbour as yourself" are still rooted in the same value, the former is obsolete and the latter is what we should align to. Both will have a result of not murdering (or lying, stealing, coveting, etc...), but "love your neighbour as yourself" will produce something far greater then the legal code articulates. It's still the same values but magnified and because of this, it is the better way.
The command to love our neighbor is part of the legal code (Leviticus 19:18) and the rest of the laws are essentially commentary about how to correctly do that.

Rom 7:1-6
1 Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

The widow is bound to her husband while he lives, but death triggers a release from that covenant. this doesn't not produce lawlessness, but instead she is free to marry again without breaking the old covenant agreement. Now, what is this law? v7 clears it up, saying "What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means!..." and v12 calls it "So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good."

Paul is not speaking of the law of sin here that he later addressed in v23. he is speaking of the old covenant and addresses the legal code in v6 itself. we are not just released from the condemnation of the law (Rom 8:1) but of it's authoriy as well (v1 and 6 make this clear). Paul's example of the widow is not to show she was married to sin, but was bound to a former covenant that has been released through death. His language is not protesting law (or reject, abolish, throw away, etc...) but that we are released from it.
There is no point where the woman was set free from needing to obey the Law of God, and if she were to get married to a second husband after the death of her first husband, then she would still be required to refrain from committing adultery, so there is nothing that leads to the conclusion that in the same way we have been set free from the Law of God. Paul was not introducing a new concept in Romans 7:21-25 but was summarizing what he had been discussing previously. It would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:6 as referring to the Law of God as if Paul delighted in being held captive to sin, but rather it is the law of sin that held us captive (Romans 7:23) and that the Law of the Spirit frees us from (Romans 8:1-2). In Romans 8:3-7, Paul said that Christ freed us form the law of sin so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Law of God and he contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God, which would not make any sense for Paul to say if serving in a new way of the Spirit meant being released from the Law of God. If we have been release from the Law of God, then we would have no obligation to refrain from lawlessness, which is the opposite of what Paul was saying in Romans 6-8.

God has not commanded anything that is not in accordance with walking in the Spirit, but rather the Law of God is His instructions for how to embody His character traits and His character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Likewise, the Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in the Spirit/walk in obedience to the Law of God.
 
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