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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Neighbor/Sojourner/Stranger/Immigrant
- Thread starter Maine Progressive
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What is hard to understand is how you can read this to excuse ICE. If our forefathers read it the way you read it, the thirteen colonies would still be colonies ruled by the King of England. Paul had no intention of endorsing government authorized cruelty. Just read the verses. "For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad." Also "Then do what is good" Also "for the sake of conscience." Also "respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due". And especially "he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law." Look at those words. Nero started executing Christians to have someone to blame for the Great Fire of Rome. That was pretty close to the time Paul wrote Romans. Do you think he meant Christians should step up and offer themselves. No. These verses are about maintaining civil governance for the good of all. For what your conscience tells you is good. For that which has earned respect and honor. It's not about the legality of thugs. Brutality is never due respect and honor. And the word 'neighbor', like it or not, does not mean the guy in the next house over.
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DaisyDay
I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
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Who said it did?
What has? I see mainly one person here with the need to criticize their perceived opposition, by party....
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- Apr 30, 2013
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Paul is just saying here "Don't start causing trouble just because your allegiance belongs to Jesus". That's far from being morally blind to Caesar's ways, or never criticizing the government (many Christians did, and many were martyred, exiled, or persecuted for it). Paul's whole ethics is based on responsible use of liberty.
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I'm not some legal positivist. Many be fleeing war, persecution or economic collapse. I'd rather leave their character to God to judge, rather than making sweeping generalizations.
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weary2025
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We take in half the world's immigrants. I dint see why its God's will that we let millions of people overrun our boarders. No nation does that. Personally I dint care but Christians should know how to act
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Pommer
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Perhaps we could get Congress to do immigration reform and have a clear, clean and legal way for people to apply to come here, as opposed to the hodgepodge “system” we currently labor under?
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Tuur
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And there it is II: The ol' race card. In case someone - I don't know - wants to read what I guess is Executive Order 14161, here is a link:
Restricting and Limiting the Entry of Foreign Nationals to Protect the Security of the United States
For something that's supposed to be racial, it remarkably leaves off countries with the same races as on the executive order.
Not that I expect reading the actual executive order will change anyone's opinion one iota.
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Pommer
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The problem is that our immigration laws are all over the place.
Rules are different depending on where a person would like to emigrate from.
Having a clear, concise and comprehensive system of laws in place would likely bring in the people we want without people coming in undocumented.
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Oompa Loompa
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Authorizing cruelty? The issue that I believe is at the center of this discussion is what exactly is "cruelty" verses mess around and find out consequences of their own decisions. Getting straight to the point, dismissing the emotional hyperbolism, you must admit that there are actual federal laws in the United States regarding immigration and customs, and the Supreme Court of the United States have ruled that only the Federal Government has the authority to enforce them. Last I checked, those laws are still on the books and are enforceable. ICE is the sole agency responsible for enforcing such laws. Laws that Congress established, not the president. In this country, Congress makes the laws, and the Executive branch enforces those laws. What your bleeding heart, which I assume is filled with empathy and compassion, is calling for is for Immigration Enforcement to stop enforcing immigration law because you do not like the reality of how people must suffer the consequences of their actions. Ironic because Obama was christened by the left as the "Deporter in Chief" because, under his administration, deported millions more than Trump. Yet, there was no mass hysteria from the left. So what changed? Trump. That is the only difference, and I truly hope that you see that the only reason why there is so much outrage about immigration enforcement now is because media, controlled by politician, told people that they should be outraged. Period.
Bottom line, other than completely opening our borders to anyone regardless of their circumstances, allowing the country to be flooded with millions of "refugees," what is your solution? Keep in mind that Martha's Vineyard, Chicago, and New York City called for a state of emergency merely because a few thousand of these "asylum seekers" were dumped onto their doorsteps. Dare I even ask how many of these "asylum seekers" you are currently housing, feeding, clothing, and subsidizing at your own expense? I figure the answer is none. Which is a common liberal response. They are completely fine harboring illegal immigrants and self-confessed asylum seekers when it is at the expense of others. But if you truly want to be faithful to your interpretation of the scripture, YOU would have no problem flipping the bill and making room in YOUR own home to "care for the sojourner."
Now, I cannot encourage illegal acts, but if this is a topic that is that important to someone, I would expect them to fill their home with as many of these "refugees" and "asylum seekers" as possible at their own expense. They provide them food, clothing, and comfort while they evade law enforcement. Furthermore, if they find themself arrested for violating federal law, they should walk into that prison with pride knowing that they were serving the will of God at the cost of their freedom. Anything less will be pure hypocrisy on their part. For the record, I highly discourage doing such a unwise thing.
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Say it aint so
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Yes, that Trump who can go and who can stay based on his views of ethnicity and race is just a coincidence.
Listen to his words. Look at his actions.
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.' --Maya Angelou: '
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