Red state residents lead growing rebellion against data centers that Trump loves

Tuur · 2026-02-20T11:53:39-0600

RocksInMyHead said:
The OP article would seem to disagree with your claim.

And I can’t say that I care. I’m here and I see and I’ve heard. You can believe who you wish.

FireDragon76 · 2026-02-20T12:44:09-0600

chevyontheriver said:
For a few decades now we have had increases in efficiency that have been able to reduce electric demands. Better motors, better lights, better appliances, better air conditioners, better TVs. This has been an application of Amory Lovin’s ‘soft energy path’. Crypto mining has been irresponsible and data centers are irresponsible, both as massive demands. But just think of the demands if the computer hardware were all 1990’s vintage power sucking CPUs.

The growth in AI has alot to do with the Biden administration making a deal with the tech oligarchs, who were offshoring huge amounts of investment in Ireland as a tax shelter. "Bring investment home and we'll stop harassing you".

So the AI bubble is mostly driven by tax policy failure to reign in the oligarch class. We get tech bro hobby projects about creating artificial minds or uploading consciousness, which has more to do with science fiction and fantasy that anything grounded in actual scientific expertise. All these guys are atheists and naturalists at heart (even Peter Thiel, who seems to essentially be dressing up his transhumanism in a thin fundamentalist Christian veneer), and think salvation comes with data centers and scale.

ThatRobGuy · 2026-02-20T13:59:47-0600

I think a lot of times people have blind spots (and we're all guilty of it)

Where there's a sort of NIMBY'ism aspect at play (just not the typical kind we're used to talking about)

People obviously don't love the utility price hikes, some don't love the environmental impacts, but they love the outgrowths of what the data centers accomplish -- just as long as it's not near where they live, and doesn't impact them personally.

If a person uses search engines, does online shopping, likes the ability to work remotely, or just mindlessly doom scrolls their social media feeds for hours per day...guess what, they're reaping the benefits of datacenters (at least 1 or 2 of those things applies to most people in the US). Seems a tad hypocritical for people to make a big fuss about it.

In essence, it's "I want just enough of them in other peoples' neighborhoods far far away from me to be able to provide the things I like, but don't you dare build one in my neighborhood for purposes that don't approve of!"

rambot · 2026-02-20T14:17:16-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
I think a lot of times people have blind spots (and we're all guilty of it)

Where there's a sort of NIMBY'ism aspect at play (just not the typical kind we're used to talking about)

People obviously don't love the utility price hikes, some don't love the environmental impacts, but they love the outgrowths of what the data centers accomplish -- just as long as it's not near where they live, and doesn't impact them personally.

Ooo.....this may be more of a stretch than you think.

ThatRobGuy said:
If a person uses search engines, does online shopping, likes the ability to work remotely, or just mindlessly doom scrolls their social media feeds for hours per day...guess what, they're reaping the benefits of datacenters (at least 1 or 2 of those things applies to most people in the US). Seems a tad hypocritical for people to make a big fuss about it.

In essence, it's "I want just enough of them in other peoples' neighborhoods far far away from me to be able to provide the things I like, but don't you dare build one in my neighborhood for purposes that don't approve of!"

What's strange is that, before AI, it seemed our reasonably sized data centres were not that problematic. But the way you characterize individuals spending time online makes it sound like they are the reason we suddenly need these huge, problematic data centre and they shouldn't complain. Indicating they're hypocrites doesn't feel like a very honest appraisal of the affects of AI and these data centres on communities that were not considered problematic before. It seems like you're just trying to silence criticism of these centres by the people who would feel the direct impacts.

chevyontheriver · 2026-02-20T14:27:51-0600

Tuur said:
Dropping energy use per consumer due to increased energy efficiency of appliances. Note: unless a load is mostly lighting, shifting to LEDs doesn’t have as much impact as some think.

It's not just LED light bulbs. It's furnace fans, air conditioning compressors, industrial electric motors, more efficient computers, and a variety of things that can be improved upon. There is still a considerable base of inefficient items out there that can be replaced either at EOL or before.

Tuur said:
Anyway, dropping energy use per consumer is offset by increased numbers of consumers, whether data centers or crypto mining is built or not.

Sort of. Once we have captured ALL of the possible efficiencies then the increased number of consumers will obviously increase electrical demand. Of course electric cars will also increase demand. The almost humorous part of that is that California pushed EVs very hard and then in shortages they had to beg people not to charge up their cars.

Desk trauma · 2026-02-20T15:16:09-0600

chevyontheriver said:
IF they had a 50% generation rule there would be a coal train a day pulling up to their facility. And coal dust blowing off the coal heap. And even MORE water used, depleting local wells.

Zero coal plants have come on line in more than a decade, zero are being built, zero are on the drawing board to be built and existing capacity is shutting down after being replaced by natural gas turbines built next to them. I know, I have built several of them.

JustaPewFiller · 2026-02-20T15:21:49-0600

One thing about these data centers - sure, it takes a bunch of people to build one.

BUT - after they are built, they are not really bringing any long-term jobs into these rural areas. It takes between 5 to 100 people to run one.

Data Center Staffing Levels: How Many People Does a Facility Need?

https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai-data-center-job-creation-48038b67

SimplyMe · 2026-02-20T16:23:55-0600

chevyontheriver said:
It's not just LED light bulbs. It's furnace fans, air conditioning compressors, industrial electric motors, more efficient computers, and a variety of things that can be improved upon. There is still a considerable base of inefficient items out there that can be replaced either at EOL or before.

Sort of. Once we have captured ALL of the possible efficiencies then the increased number of consumers will obviously increase electrical demand. Of course electric cars will also increase demand. The almost humorous part of that is that California pushed EVs very hard and then in shortages they had to beg people not to charge up their cars.

Sorry, please show me where California "beg people not to charge up their cars." It didn't happen, despite Republicans and Right Wing media falsely claiming that is what was said.

What actually happened, in the midst of record high temperatures in California, is California asked people not to charge their EV between 5 and 10 PM, when power demand was expected to be at its highest, and instead charge before that time period. It is also worth noting that the majority of Californians charge their cars overnight (I believe starting after 10 or 11 pm) as that is when demand drops and there are lower energy rates.

Desk trauma · 2026-02-20T16:24:43-0600

JustaPewFiller said:
One thing about these data centers - sure, it takes a bunch of people to build one.

Almost none of whom are going to be locals.

Say it aint so · 2026-02-20T16:37:35-0600

Tuur said:
Please reread my post: It’s blue cities telling red rural areas that we don’t want data centers. Let that be our decision, not their’s.

Not sure how you conclude that. Those in those rural areas don't need those from blue cities telling them that annoying hum, raising energy rates, and decreasing property values, what they are literally experiencing, is something they should reject.

ThatRobGuy · 2026-02-20T17:22:16-0600

rambot said:
What's strange is that, before AI, it seemed our reasonably sized data centres were not that problematic. But the way you characterize individuals spending time online makes it sound like they are the reason we suddenly need these huge, problematic data centre and they shouldn't complain. Indicating they're hypocrites doesn't feel like a very honest appraisal of the affects of AI and these data centres on communities that were not considered problematic before. It seems like you're just trying to silence criticism of these centres by the people who would feel the direct impacts.

I can't speak for the data center landscape in Canada where you're located, but as far as the US goes --

Only about 30% of data center capacity in the US is devoted to AI, and very few datacenters were/are purpose-built AI facilities. The overwhelming majority of the AI ramp up involves datacenters that already existed, running AI workloads in addition to the normal cloud services like storage, email, e-commerce, and search engines.

BloombergNEF puts total US data center power demand at almost 35 gigawatts, and estimated AI's share at about 6-9 GW.

MIT Technology review (which I hope would know their stuff in this regard) published the following:
Data centers in the US used somewhere around 200 terawatt-hours of electricity in 2025, roughly what it takes to power Thailand for a year. AI-specific servers in these data centers are estimated to have used between 53 and 76 terawatt-hours of electricity.

So the two estimates (despite measuring different metrics) appear to line up, which is: AI-specific stuff is responsible for about 20-30% of the power consumption. The other 70% is the "traditional data center stuff"

So I think, at least with regards to the US landscape, my statement still holds up.

Data Centers were huge electricity/energy draws before AI, people getting mad about the particular form that's only responsible for a quarter of the problem because it happens to now be impacting their neighborhood (despite having no qualms before) would be NIMBYism

rambot · 2026-02-20T19:32:08-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
I can't speak for the data center landscape in Canada where you're located, but as far as the US goes --

Only about 30% of data center capacity in the US is devoted to AI, and very few datacenters were/are purpose-built AI facilities. The overwhelming majority of the AI ramp up involves datacenters that already existed, running AI workloads in addition to the normal cloud services like storage, email, e-commerce, and search engines.

BloombergNEF puts total US data center power demand at almost 35 gigawatts, and estimated AI's share at about 6-9 GW.

MIT Technology review (which I hope would know their stuff in this regard) published the following:
Data centers in the US used somewhere around 200 terawatt-hours of electricity in 2025, roughly what it takes to power Thailand for a year. AI-specific servers in these data centers are estimated to have used between 53 and 76 terawatt-hours of electricity.

So the two estimates (despite measuring different metrics) appear to line up, which is: AI-specific stuff is responsible for about 20-30% of the power consumption. The other 70% is the "traditional data center stuff"

So I think, at least with regards to the US landscape, my statement still holds up.

I assumed we would be talking about the new data centres being built and not historical ones (Which partially explains the NIMBY phenom).
All the new data centres being built are much, MUCH larger than older ones.
New ones are built:

These next-generation facilities are custom-built to support the heavy and complex needs of AI workloads.

Unlike their traditional counterparts, these facilities are purpose-built to handle high-performance computing (HPC), ultra-fast networking, and advanced cooling systems.

Traditional Data Centers vs. AI-Ready Data Centers: A New Era of Infrastructure

Clearly the new centres are not really comparable to the old ones. You are welcome to continue to trot out impressive "systems related" numbers but it doesn't really matter if the localized impact does NOT really reflect older trends.

And what communities getting these centres are expecting are SIGNIFICANT drains on resources.

Can you accept that this is a reasonable concern?

In my province the town of Olds Alberta is getting a data centre...9000 people. You think their electricity and water usage is NOT going to be impacted by a data centre? Pffffffft.

ThatRobGuy · 2026-02-20T20:30:31-0600

rambot said:
Clearly the new centres are not really comparable to the old ones. You are welcome to continue to trot out impressive "systems related" numbers but it doesn't really matter if the localized impact does NOT really reflect older trends.

And what communities getting these centres are expecting are SIGNIFICANT drains on resources.

Can you accept that this is a reasonable concern?

In my province the town of Olds Alberta is getting a data centre...9000 people. You think their electricity and water usage is NOT going to be impacted by a data centre? Pffffffft.

It's a reasonable concern, but it's only a concern people seem to have once it starts to impact them personally, which was kind of my point lol.

The fact is, the same concerns they have about their own communities, are the same concerns numerous other people in other communities have been dealing with for the last 10 years.

I would perhaps call it the "needle exchange effect"

"Needle exchanges are great, and when you look at it logically, makes more sense than our prior approaches"
...a few months later...
"oh wait, you want to put one of those places next to MY house?!?!"

Perhaps being less exposed to it in Canada, it's novel to you guys, but like I noted, for the US, AI is only representing 20-30% of the footprint when it comes to power usage and datacenters, meaning, the other 70-80% was already there and impacting other people.

I live in a state where Amazon already has over 20 data centers.... (if you count other cloud providers, we're approaching 100)

RocksInMyHead · 2026-02-20T20:30:57-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
I can't speak for the data center landscape in Canada where you're located, but as far as the US goes --

Only about 30% of data center capacity in the US is devoted to AI, and very few datacenters were/are purpose-built AI facilities. The overwhelming majority of the AI ramp up involves datacenters that already existed, running AI workloads in addition to the normal cloud services like storage, email, e-commerce, and search engines.

In the past couple years, perhaps, but there are approximately 3000 data centers planned or currently under construction (more or less doubling the current number - which also appears to have more or less doubled in 2025), and most of those will be dedicated to AI tasks - which are far more power-intensive (10-20x as much) on a per-rack basis.

ThatRobGuy said:
BloombergNEF puts total US data center power demand at almost 35 gigawatts, and estimated AI's share at about 6-9 GW.

I'm not seeing that article, but they also say this:

Data center electricity demand has grown more than 400% in the past 10 years and 150% in the last five years. Development shows no signs of slowing. Through the first quarter of 2025, a cumulative 23 gigawatts (GW) of data center IT capacity was live in the United States with 48 GW under construction or committed to be built.

New Study Shows Sustainable Energy Technologies Met Rising Demand Growth in 2025 Despite Uncertainty | BloombergNEF

Fourteenth Sustainable Energy in America Factbook highlights national data on the U.S. energy expansion in 2025

about.bnef.com

And this:

Data-center power demand hits 106 gigawatts (GW) by 2035 in BloombergNEF’s newest forecast – a 36% jump from the previous outlook, published just seven months ago.

The massive growth rate in data center power demand reflects more than a surge in the number of data centers in the pipeline; it also highlights the new centers’ size. Of the nearly 150 new data center projects BNEF added to its tracker in the last year, nearly a quarter exceed 500 megawatts. That’s more than double last year’s share.

AI and the Power Grid: Where the Rubber Meets the Road | BloombergNEF

A new wave of early-stage data center projects is reshaping US electricity demand – and it’s doing it quickly.

about.bnef.com

ThatRobGuy said:
MIT Technology review (which I hope would know their stuff in this regard) published the following:
Data centers in the US used somewhere around 200 terawatt-hours of electricity in 2025, roughly what it takes to power Thailand for a year. AI-specific servers in these data centers are estimated to have used between 53 and 76 terawatt-hours of electricity.

Interesting - I don't know if you changed the year, or if you're referencing an AI result that did [it would help if you provided links to your sources], but the original article that this stat is from says those were the numbers in 2024:

Data centers in the US used somewhere around 200 terawatt-hours of electricity in 2024, roughly what it takes to power Thailand for a year. AI-specific servers in these data centers are estimated to have used between 53 and 76 terawatt-hours of electricity.

(scroll down to part 4) We did the math on AI’s energy footprint. Here’s the story you haven’t heard.

That same article, two paragraphs later, has this to say:

By 2028, the researchers estimate, the power going to AI-specific purposes will rise to between 165 and 326 terawatt-hours per year. That’s more than all electricity currently used by US data centers for all purposes.

ThatRobGuy said:
So I think, at least with regards to the US landscape, my statement still holds up.

I don't think it does. I don't know if you're deliberately cherry-picking data to support your opinions, or if you've been mislead by sources that seem to agree with you, but it's clear that the energy demands from AI are rising precipitously, and are predicted to continue doing so for at least the next decade, barring some revolution in energy efficiency or a total crash of the bubble.

I think it's wholly reasonable for US energy consumers to be wary of that, especially because many data centers are getting significantly discounted rates on their electricity - meaning that existing customers will have to shoulder a substantial portion of the bill for the increased generation capacity and infrastructure improvements required to supply them.

ThatRobGuy · 2026-02-20T20:48:49-0600

RocksInMyHead said:
In the past couple years, perhaps, but there are approximately 3000 data centers planned or currently under construction (more or less doubling the current number - which also appears to have more or less doubled in 2025), and most of those will be dedicated to AI tasks - which are far more power-intensive (10-20x as much) on a per-rack basis.

I'm not seeing that article, but they also say this:

New Study Shows Sustainable Energy Technologies Met Rising Demand Growth in 2025 Despite Uncertainty | BloombergNEF

Fourteenth Sustainable Energy in America Factbook highlights national data on the U.S. energy expansion in 2025

about.bnef.com

And this:

AI and the Power Grid: Where the Rubber Meets the Road | BloombergNEF

A new wave of early-stage data center projects is reshaping US electricity demand – and it’s doing it quickly.

about.bnef.com

Interesting - I don't know if you changed the year, or if you're referencing an AI result that did [it would help if you provided links to your sources], but the original article that this stat is from says those were the numbers in 2024:

(scroll down to part 4) We did the math on AI’s energy footprint. Here’s the story you haven’t heard.

That same article, two paragraphs later, has this to say:

I don't think it does. I don't know if you're deliberately cherry-picking data to support your opinions, or if you've been mislead by sources that seem to agree with you, but it's clear that the energy demands from AI are rising precipitously, and are predicted to continue doing so for at least the next decade, barring some revolution in energy efficiency or a total crash of the bubble.

I think it's wholly reasonable for US energy consumers to be wary of that, especially because many data centers are getting significantly discounted rates on their electricity - meaning that existing customers will have to shoulder a substantial portion of the bill for the increased generation capacity and infrastructure improvements required to supply them.

Wouldn't all of this still tie in with my original statement?... that people who were okay with it for things they like when it was impacting other peoples' neighborhoods for the last 10 years are hypocritical in that they only seem to be concerned when it's going to impact their neighborhood?

Even if the number of data centers has doubled in the past year or two (and is slated to double again in the next 2 years), that just means that twice as many people would have to deal with something that millions of people have been having to deal with for the last decade, right?

By all means, scrap remote work for 90% of people, cloud computing, cloud storage, 2-day shipping logistics, AI, etc... I'll live like a king lol. I'd easily make $400k a year in an environment where cloud-based solutions + AI-assist weren't a thing lol.

I'm not so naive as to believe that AI won't replace my job eventually. I have a slight advantage in that I'm one of the people who implements it and understands in a way that the boomers on the executive team don't, but that'll change in the next 10 years. They'll be able to type a simple command and replace me at that point.

RocksInMyHead · 2026-02-20T21:08:39-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
Wouldn't all of this still tie in with my original statement?... that people who were okay with it for things they like when it was impacting other peoples' neighborhoods for the last 10 years are hypocritical in that they only seem to be concerned when it's going to impact their neighborhood?

No, because the complaints I'm seeing aren't really about immediate, neighborhood-level impacts.

chevyontheriver · 2026-02-20T21:22:16-0600

SimplyMe said:
Sorry, please show me where California "beg people not to charge up their cars." It didn't happen, despite Republicans and Right Wing media falsely claiming that is what was said.

What actually happened, in the midst of record high temperatures in California, is California asked people not to charge their EV between 5 and 10 PM, when power demand was expected to be at its highest, and instead charge before that time period. It is also worth noting that the majority of Californians charge their cars overnight (I believe starting after 10 or 11 pm) as that is when demand drops and there are lower energy rates.

You tell me it didn't happen and then you tell me it did. OK. I haven't lived in a locale where that happened (or didn't happen, or whatever).

rambot · 2026-02-20T21:26:34-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
It's a reasonable concern, but it's only a concern people seem to have once it starts to impact them personally, which was kind of my point lol.

Well okay but the...the other point is that the other data centres were smaller and didn't have the same kind of impact on their community as these new ones would.

That is kind of THE point.

I have only ever heard "NIMBY" being brought up to discredit an argue but I think their argument is valid.

ThatRobGuy said:
The fact is, the same concerns they have about their own communities, are the same concerns numerous other people in other communities have been dealing with for the last 10 years.

But those data centres, on the whole, were MUCH smaller and so their impacts, though already a strain, is simply going to be amplified in new communities. IOW, AI data centre's impact, though previously great, is getting greater

I would perhaps call it the "needle exchange effect"

"Needle exchanges are great, and when you look at it logically, makes more sense than our prior approaches"
...a few months later...
"oh wait, you want to put one of those places next to MY house?!?!"

Yeah. I wouldn't say that's the greatest comparison...for a few reasons.

Tuur · 2026-02-21T05:56:30-0600

Say it aint so said:
Not sure how you conclude that. Those in those rural areas don't need those from blue cities telling them that annoying hum, raising energy rates, and decreasing property values, what they are literally experiencing, is something they should reject.

What we don’t need are a bunch of self-proclaimed elites who consider us fly-over country telling what to do.

“Rates go up, rates go up.” Here’s a newsflash: building and upgrading transmission for solar panel fields does, too, to the tune of about six million a mile. And we’re going to need new generation just from growing population. I run figures every year, and even with dropping energy use per consumer, energy use increases.

If cities don’t want data centers, then let them zone against them. That’s them and their business. Just let them feel the same toward us.

Tuur · 2026-02-21T06:08:40-0600

chevyontheriver said:
Sort of. Once we have captured ALL of the possible efficiencies then the increased number of consumers will obviously increase electrical demand.

Uh-uh: We’re seeing that right now. I know, because every year I have to run the numbers for work. That’s why energy demand increases despite individual use decreasing. The population increase offsets energy use decrease.

As is usual with such things, such tends to follow a logarithmic curve of increase or decrease. I look for the same here.

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Red state residents lead growing rebellion against data centers that Trump loves

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