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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
"Don't Give up the Ship"
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BCP1928
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Whatever you may think about a land war in South America, whether it's the right thing to do or not, we could not win one. The top military leadership in this country is not competent to pursue such a war. We've gotten into a lot of trouble over the years with wars like that where the SecDefs have made mistakes, but at least they were all grownups. I sincerely believe that Hegseth is not playing with a full deck and if there ever was a case of "loss of confidence in his ablilty to command" it's him.
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- Aug 18, 2012
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...because blowing up boats with very expensive ordance makes for a good TV show......yet they still have not realeased the full, unedited video to the public.
I would have have loved to be a fly on the wall when the Naval commander of the USS Ford received orders to leave the Mediterranean sea and head to......Venezuela. I'm sure there were a few choice words used.....
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I've seen a rough cost estimate of about $1,000,000 per "narco-terrorist" killed, counting most costs involved in the total operation.
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essentialsaltes
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Sen. Elissa Slotkin says she's under federal investigation after video about refusing illegal orders
Sen. Elissa Slotkin, D-Mich., is being investigated by federal prosecutors after she participated in a video with other Democratic lawmakers urging members of the military and the intelligence community not to follow illegal orders, her office confirmed Tuesday.Trump previously blasted the Democratic members of Congress in the video, accusing them of committing “seditious behavior.” He said in November that their actions were “punishable by death” but later walked back the remarks
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Say it aint so
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This admin has no self control where cost and the waste of judicial time means not a thing as long as they appease the party of one.
Same with Jim Comey. Same with Letisha James. The same with Lisa Cook.
These investigations are military actions against both Kelly and Slotin will go about as far as the ham sandwich indictment.
Same with Jim Comey. Same with Letisha James. The same with Lisa Cook.
These investigations are military actions against both Kelly and Slotin will go about as far as the ham sandwich indictment.
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essentialsaltes
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Rep. Jason Crow, D-Colo., one of the Democratic lawmakers who recorded a video last year urging military and intelligence officers to disobey illegal orders, has been contacted by prosecutors from the Justice Department, according to a source familiar with the matter.
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essentialsaltes
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Judge skeptical of Pentagon's efforts to punish Sen. Kelly over "illegal orders" video
In a 45-minute court hearing on Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Richard Leon appeared concerned by the Justice Department's arguments that the speech limitations customarily imposed on active-duty military officers to promote discipline and obedience was being extended to include retired service members like Kelly."That's never been done," Leon told Justice Department attorney John Bailey, adding that the government did not have a single case to support the argument.
Kelly's legal team, which includes the former U.S. Attorney for the District of New Jersey as well as other prominent former senior officials from the Justice Department, say that the Pentagon's actions are an unlawful attempt to stifle his First Amendment right to free speech.
The Justice Department has since sent inquiries to the five other congressional Democrats who participated in the video. In response to the Justice Department probe, the lawmakers have accused the Trump administration of trying to silence and intimidate them.
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MarcusGregor
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Grand jury declines criminal charges against 6 Democrats who urged military to reject illegal orders, multiple sources say
A federal grand jury refused to indict six Democrats who drew President Trump's ire by taping a video telling members of the military that they must reject "illegal orders," three sources told CBS News.
www.cbsnews.com
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A2SG
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Remember the old maxim that grand juries would indict a ham sandwich? Looks like the Trump DOJ keeps failing at that.Grand jury declines criminal charges against 6 Democrats who urged military to reject illegal orders, multiple sources say
A federal grand jury refused to indict six Democrats who drew President Trump's ire by taping a video telling members of the military that they must reject "illegal orders," three sources told CBS News.
-- A2SG, lucky for ham sandwiches, I guess....
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Say it aint so
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Every Single Grand Juror Rejected Trump DOJ’s Case for Indicting Dem Lawmakers
The Department of Justice needed yes votes from 12 grand jurors — on a panel of 16-23 members — in order to indict six Democratic members of Congress in connection with a video in which the lawmakers urged troops to refuse illegal orders.
They reportedly got none.
According to a report from Ryan J. Reilly of NBC News, not one of the empaneled grand jury members bought the DOJ’s arguments in the case against Sen. Mark Kelly (D-AZ), Sen. Elissa Slotkin (D-MI), Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO), Rep. Maggie Goodlander (D-NH), Rep. Chrissy Houlahan (D-PA), and Rep. Chris Deluzio (D-PA).
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- Aug 18, 2012
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A federal judge on Thursday temporarily blocked Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth from punishing Senator Mark Kelly, Democrat of Arizona, for participating in a video that warned active-duty service members not to follow illegal orders.
Judge Richard J. Leon of the District Court for the District of Columbia wrote in a 29-page opinion that the Defense Department’s move to discipline Mr. Kelly, a retired Navy captain and former astronaut, ran roughshod over his freedom of speech.
“Rather than trying to shrink the First Amendment liberties of retired service members, Secretary Hegseth and his fellow Defendants might reflect and be grateful for the wisdom and expertise that retired service members have brought to public discussions and debate on military matters in our Nation over the past 250 years,” he wrote. “If so, they will more fully appreciate why the Founding Fathers made free speech the first Amendment in the Bill of Rights!”
Judge Richard J. Leon of the District Court for the District of Columbia wrote in a 29-page opinion that the Defense Department’s move to discipline Mr. Kelly, a retired Navy captain and former astronaut, ran roughshod over his freedom of speech.
“Rather than trying to shrink the First Amendment liberties of retired service members, Secretary Hegseth and his fellow Defendants might reflect and be grateful for the wisdom and expertise that retired service members have brought to public discussions and debate on military matters in our Nation over the past 250 years,” he wrote. “If so, they will more fully appreciate why the Founding Fathers made free speech the first Amendment in the Bill of Rights!”
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notyourenemy
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“Persons who have been incapacitated by wounds, sickness, or shipwreck are in a helpless state, and it would be dishonorable and inhumane to make them the object of attack.”
---Pentagon Law of War Manual
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GoldenBoy89
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Oh, those bleeding heart liberals at the Pentagon!
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I'll say again, this Republican gets it right. He mentions situations in which wrong people--innocent people--were killed combat...I've told the story of how I was part of that situation a couple of times. But listen to what he's saying, because he is telling the dead truth.
"It's so confusing isn't it? So much going on, so much to say, and all of it happening so quickly. The pace of oppression outstrips our ability to understand it and that is the real trick of the imperial thought machine. It's easier to hide behind forty atrocities than a single incident." -- Karis Nemik
We see it happening now. But it's easier to hide behind forty atrocities than a single incident.
Whoever ordered that second strike committed a war crime. It's a crime left hanging.
And we've already forgotten about it.
Where is the video of that second strike?
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- Aug 18, 2012
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Accountability. There is none with our current federal government.
Under Hegseth (...not exhaustive):
1) Strikes on suspected drug runners (civilians).
2) U.S. military aircraft operating without transponders activated -- resulted in a near miss with a Jetblue civilian airliner in the Caribbean.
3) Last week, the military "loaned" their Locust anti-drone laser system to DHS. DHS operated the system, reportedly with US Army oberservers, in civilian airspace (El Paso) over the strong objections of the FAA.
4) Using unsecure methods (Signal App on a personal cell phone) to communicate imminent military strikes
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