Is this the real reality? What do you believe or think?

Neogaia777 said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there evidence of this reality being observer dependent? Not like in that we create it or make it or anything, but just like in an MMO video game, which is a simulated world/reality, it's not like those other programs that make up the rest of that reality are not there, or do not exist, but it's just that they don't exist in just only one place, or as quote/unquote "solid", until each individual member, say their computer monitors or tv screens, observes it, and then it fixes into that one position for as long as the observer (or each individual observer/player), is in need of it to be, but that then it goes right back to, still being there or still existing as a part of the overall program, but just not fixed in one single place/space, or seen/observed as being quote/unquote "solid/rendered" until an individual observer is in need of it to be again, but only for as long or as often as those each individual observers are in need of it to be, and only for what they need it to be, and only for as long or as often as they need it to be, in or at those individual moments, and then it goes right back to being un-solid, or as being, for lack of a better word to describe it, as being "everywhere and/or maybe also nowhere" again after that again, etc. And this is usually to save a whole heck of a lot of active computer memory/space (ROM/RAM), or need of graphical rendering, which taxes computer systems/programs very, very much greatly if it always had to do all of it actively, etc.

God Bless.

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The other realities I have in mind is just like ours.

We can't see it because it exists in another "reference frame" and the parameters of that reference frame is extreme compared to ours.

Nature doesn't hide or obscure nor show it as needed but painstakingly prevents our reality from accessing it.

I suppose the closest analogy to MMO games is you can't simply take your avatar or character across different "realms" or across different servers without making a ticket, talking to a game master or creating a totally new account.

NOR that events on another server or realm can simultaneously "spill over" your realm or server. It would be chaos if it did because for example, characters from another realm or server can have far superior equipment than yours. Things can get ridiculously unbalanced.

The universe or nature / quantum level events also painstakingly prevents us from unraveling further. Time ceases to have meaning at these levels and marks the border of our reality. We can't even observe what goes beyond that border. But if something exists beyond that border and If we could possibly observe it, it can manifest as "non-physical" and we might appear the same to that side as well.

In other words, Demons could be physical human beings in their realm just like us in our reality and their reality or "dimension" may look exactly like ours I'm not saying they really are. but when time ceases to have meaning at the "border", anything is possible. We could even be the "demons" in their reality.

THe Bible doesn't always regard the devil as a supernatural, non-physical entity as well. It can also be a human being - resist the devil can also mean physically resisting an evil person with violence or force (The English translations doesn't give justice to the more original Greek translations of the scriptures).

Neogaia777 said:

I guess it's possible that we could mod/modify this reality though our faith belief, or intentionality maybe, or some other things maybe?

Thoughts have been shown to change water molecules, which is a lot of reality already, etc. Also been shown that some pretty amazing things can also happen, when you 100% believe something, etc.

Take Care/God Bless.

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I think that's a more like some New Age interpretations that remains to be proven scientifically.

The point of Jesus saying like having faith the size of a mustard seed moving mountains isn't that we are suppossesd to become mentalists, it's that when you live by faith, there's alignment with a higher purpose than just the instrumental, reductive, and mechanistic logic of what passes for "realism" in conventional discourse.

Neogaia777 said:

I don't think it can be accomplished by simple thought alone, etc.

Seems to be whole other much more evolved/progressive mind/heart/will/emotions/mindset/body alignment or attitude maybe, or something we just haven't gotten to yet, and that might have to be centered around another man or person maybe? Or perhaps God maybe? Or maybe someone like Jesus Christ maybe, etc?

God Bless.

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If you take Christian theology seriously, Jesus' human will was perfectly aligned with God's will, that's basic Chalcedonian orthodoxy. It's not magic or mentalism, it's alignment.

Even in esoteric traditions like Qigong that believe it's possible to "cultivate qi", the unseen movement of the spirit or breath of Nature, there's an understanding that the practitioner brings themself into ethical and spiritual alignment with something greater than themselves, such as Dao (the Way). Indeed, not doing so can be harmful, leading to mental illness/psychosis or physical harm.

FireDragon76 said:

I think that's a more like some New Age interpretations that remains to be proven scientifically.

The point of Jesus saying like having faith the size of a mustard seed moving mountains isn't that we are suppossesd to become mentalists, it's that when you live by faith, there's alignment with a higher purpose than just the instrumental, reductive, and mechanistic logic of what passes for "realism" in conventional discourse.

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But what if faith is the stuff that the greater realm is actually made of.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

It must be noted that the Greek terms for "substance" and "evidence" are decidedly not merely concepts, but concrete terms intended to convey that faith is "real stuff," not merely a philosophical concept. Heaven is made up of faith as this existence is made up of atoms.

Akita Suggagaki said:

This reality that we experience is limited by our senses. So, yes, it is a subset of what is really out there. No faith neede. It is a known fact. To me the more interesting question is if we can expand and enhance our senses. Of course we do that with devices. But can we train ourselves to perceive more?

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I should think, you would be more accurate to say, Our experience of this reality is limited by our senses. After all, the reality is not limited by anything unless by God. Truth is truth, regardless of who knows it or senses it.

FireDragon76 said:
I think that's a more like some New Age interpretations that remains to be proven scientifically.

The point of Jesus saying like having faith the size of a mustard seed moving mountains isn't that we are suppossesd to become mentalists, it's that when you live by faith, there's alignment with a higher purpose than just the instrumental, reductive, and mechanistic logic of what passes for "realism" in conventional discourse.

RDKirk said:

But what if faith is the stuff that the greater realm is actually made of.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

It must be noted that the Greek terms for "substance" and "evidence" are decidedly not merely concepts, but concrete terms intended to convey that faith is "real stuff," not merely a philosophical concept. Heaven is made up of faith as this existence is made up of atoms.

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Or both, maybe? Faith (salvific, real, faith) being generated by the Spirit indwelling the believer, is not dependent on our ability to do anything, nor even to understand, though it affects and is affected by understanding. It is entirely valid in whatever degree or orientation of our intelligence, specifically because it does not begin with us, but with God.

Thus, it is real, substantive, and aligned with that higher purpose (being generated by that 'higher purpose'). AND, it is neither substantive nor real if it is generated by us, nor is it aligned with that higher purpose—God. "Apart from me you can do nothing" is not hyperbole.

Neogaia777 said:

It's an incredibly long simulation, but that's because it's not just for/about us, but is also for God the Spirit/God in the Old Testament, and Jesus, and all of the other spirit beings as well, etc. Maybe we'll all ascend together one day, etc.

Seems Jesus already did though, etc, at least until he comes back from that place one day for the very last and final chapter of this simulation/reality, until we all maybe ascend together after that maybe, etc, or at least some of us will get to anyway, etc.

Take Care/God Bless.

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Well, this is it...... Underlying realities "bigger" or "smaller" that we are unable to observe may look just like ours from within it.

I think what comes "after" is possibly the chance to access other realities, if we continue to exist in non-physical form (much of the fundamental limitation in quantum physics applies to the physical aspect of reality). However, upon entry to other realities may restore us to physical form once again. A rebirth.

Other realities if they exist are just different manifestations of the one we have.

If this reality is messed up is either because we messed it up or did nothing to stop evil men and women from messing it up or both.

The "other world" Jesus spoke of can also mean "age" or the "coming age".

I don't wish to make it sound so mundane or boring. But the end of this current age and the arrival of the next age could also mean new set of rules, new thinking.

For example, people who have been greedy in this age will fail in the next age. The new set of rules for example would prevent such people from succeeding in the next age. They may even lose their wealth, their position, etc. The first will be last, and the last will be first so to speak.

We're not really being scooped up and then air dropped into paradise.... But if the next age, totally restructures the systems into one that favors mercy, kindness, compassion, generosity, selflessness, understanding, over greed, materialism, selfishness, indifference, coldness, harshness, injustice.

Our world can become a paradise in relatively short period of time if the right people are running the place. Not people who will just keep on repeating the mistakes of those before them.

Teachings that we can act with indifference, harshness, utter disregard for Earth is going to be made new again is false teaching. The Bible does say people who act in such evil manner will be destroyed or die with the passing of this age.

RDKirk said:

But what if faith is the stuff that the greater realm is actually made of.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

It must be noted that the Greek terms for "substance" and "evidence" are decidedly not merely concepts, but concrete terms intended to convey that faith is "real stuff," not merely a philosophical concept. Heaven is made up of faith as this existence is made up of atoms.

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This is mystical language meant to be understood by way of analogy - faith participates in unseen realities. Faith itself as I'm speaking of it is movement of the will.

Neogaia777 said:

Alot of people say that you can't prove that there are other places other than this, and that whether there is or not is a matter of whether you think there is or not, or what you believe, and I think that they are correct in that mostly really, and that it really does just come down to what you think, or a choice to believe it or not actually, etc.

Personally, I think there is, or at least could be, and this is for a lot of reasons, most of which most of you probably won't believe, so I'm going to try to stick to just only the ones that you maybe can believe maybe, ok.

I don't think this is the real reality, and that what each of us is, goes well beyond this actually, etc. I think that this reality is just a sub-set of another reality which is the real reality, etc. That this is more like a program, or simulation, and that most of what we see/experience here is only temporary, and that this is not the greatest or highest reality, but is only a part or sub-set of that other reality, etc. Also that this reality is deterministic also actually, etc. And that some of us maybe even had a pre-existence before this maybe, but that memory of only just fails us right now currently, etc, but that also might be re-restored upon re-entering maybe. There are a lot of possibilities, etc.

Why this reality or our temporary existence here is another discussion for another time, although I do think I have some answers for that though actually.

Anyway, what do you think?

Can you exercise some sort of faith/belief that this reality might not be the only reality, or the highest or greatest reality? Or at least allow for the possibility of that maybe?

What do you think?

Take Care/God Bless.

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I'll believe this reality is not real when I see evidence of it not being real.

FireDragon76 said:

This is mystical language meant to be understood by way of analogy - faith participates in unseen realities. Faith itself as I'm speaking of it is movement of the will.

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Koine Greek has words for analogy; that's not was used here. And the author doubled down on the concreteness of faith with both words stacked upon one another.

The author of Hebrews intended “faith” to be understood as something objective and real, not merely an internal mental attitude--but not as a physical substance in the crude, material sense either.

Hypostasis had several overlapping meanings in the first century. The word literally refers to the foundations of a bridge or arch. Extended, the word means "real being," and "objective existence." Importantly, hypostasis is not a purely psychological or intellectual term. It denotes something that has standing or existence, whether physical, legal, or ontological. This is far more than "movement of the will" of a person.

Hebrews uses hypostasis again in Hebrews 1:3: “...the express image of His person (hypostaseōs)." Here, hypostasis clearly means real being or essence, not “confidence.” The author is definitely using the term in an ontologically concrete sense. If hypostasis is merely a concept, then the author is not supporting the true physicality of Jesus.

The Greek for "evidence" is elenchus, which means proof or demonstration. It refers to objective validation, not subjective feeling. Elenchos is not “evidence” in the sense of raw data; it is the thing that proves something else is real and true. A mere mental concept does not do that.

Thus, faith functions as the means by which unseen realities are shown to be actual.

The author of Hebrews is not saying that faith is a mystical energy. The author is not saying that faith is “mere belief without evidence." In fact, that latter idea is actually excluded by elenchos.

In other words: Faith is the foundation of a reality that is not visible to the human eye. Faith functions as a mode of access to that reality, it not a psychological placeholder.

When Hebrews 11:1 says, "Faith is the hypostasis of things hoped for," the grammar does not say that faith imagines heaven or that faith substitutes for evidence or that faith creates a fiction.

Yet, if someone consistently acts as though the unseen is unreal while claiming faith, that claim is rationally and theologically suspect. According to Hebrews’ own logic, faith that does not manifest as perseverance and obedience is not merely hidden, it is absent. And James says exactly the same thing.

Larniavc said:

I'll believe this reality is not real when I see evidence of it not being real.

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This reality is real, but it's not the the only reality or it's not the full extent of reality.

Neogaia777 said:

Thoughts have been shown to change water molecules, which is a lot of reality already, etc. Also been shown that some pretty amazing things can also happen, when you 100% believe something, etc.

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What?

timewerx said:

Well, this is it...... Underlying realities "bigger" or "smaller" that we are unable to observe may look just like ours from within it.

I think what comes "after" is possibly the chance to access other realities, if we continue to exist in non-physical form (much of the fundamental limitation in quantum physics applies to the physical aspect of reality). However, upon entry to other realities may restore us to physical form once again. A rebirth.

Other realities if they exist are just different manifestations of the one we have.

If this reality is messed up is either because we messed it up or did nothing to stop evil men and women from messing it up or both.

The "other world" Jesus spoke of can also mean "age" or the "coming age".

I don't wish to make it sound so mundane or boring. But the end of this current age and the arrival of the next age could also mean new set of rules, new thinking.

For example, people who have been greedy in this age will fail in the next age. The new set of rules for example would prevent such people from succeeding in the next age. They may even lose their wealth, their position, etc. The first will be last, and the last will be first so to speak.

We're not really being scooped up and then air dropped into paradise.... But if the next age, totally restructures the systems into one that favors mercy, kindness, compassion, generosity, selflessness, understanding, over greed, materialism, selfishness, indifference, coldness, harshness, injustice.

Our world can become a paradise in relatively short period of time if the right people are running the place. Not people who will just keep on repeating the mistakes of those before them.

Teachings that we can act with indifference, harshness, utter disregard for Earth is going to be made new again is false teaching. The Bible does say people who act in such evil manner will be destroyed or die with the passing of this age.

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You speak of "other realities" so loosely one might forget that there is only one reality—and that is God's. There can be only one. Are you speaking of maybe other universes, that, perhaps, operate by different principles and laws? Or are you speaking of other points of view? Those are not different realities.

RDKirk said:

This reality is real, but it's not the the only reality or it's not the full extent of reality.

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I pick, "it's not the full extent of reality". There can be only one reality, and only one First Cause, one God. Reality is HIS. What we see or hear or know about is irrelevant to the facts.

Mark Quayle said:

I pick, "it's not the full extent of reality". There can be only one reality, and only one First Cause, one God. Reality is HIS. What we see or hear or know about is irrelevant to the facts.

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So, Existence itSelf is God?

RDKirk said:

This reality is real, but it's not the the only reality or it's not the full extent of reality.

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But if it’s the only one we have access to why is it important beyond idle speculation?

Neogaia777 said:

Thoughts have been shown to change water molecules,

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No they haven’t. Evidence please.

Mark Quayle said:

There can be only one reality, and only one First Cause,

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There could be an infinite amount of inaccessible realities with their own first causes.

Mark Quayle said:

You speak of "other realities" so loosely one might forget that there is only one reality—and that is God's. There can be only one. Are you speaking of maybe other universes, that, perhaps, operate by different principles and laws? Or are you speaking of other points of view? Those are not different realities.

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The Bible did not speak of other planets in other stars either but astronomy is proving they exist.

Yes, realities in terms of whole different (separate) universes may exist. In science, reality does not extend beyond our Universe and/or simply no means of observation.

Reality/time also "terminates" at the event horizon of a Black Hole.

In all cases, all observation is impossible.

Yet the absolute lack of anything coming out of something doesn't always mean lack of existence. We know in the case of black holes, something do exist beyond the event horizon even though all observation results say nothing exist in there, not even space-time.

Theories exist that Black Holes may host separate universe inside that may look and behave very similar to ours and even follows the evolution of our universe from creation and there's no singularity inside.

In a similar fashion, our Universe may also be inside a much bigger one. In both cases, time ceases to have meaning at the boundary and beyond. Another place where time ceases to meaning are some levels in the quantum field.

It seems like when one "reality" ends and another one starts, it is marked by the laws of physics becoming undefined and time loses meaning, All in "boundary scenarios", In black holes, the observational limits of our universe, and in quantum fields.

Yet, these theories suggest if physics or time loses meaning from our perspective like when looking at black holes as outside observer, an inside observer might see time function normally as we do time in our own universe.

What is totally meaningless or even non-existent from one observational perspective is totally normal and exist in another and this is from a scientific perspective.

it seems by design that if countless universes exist, natural laws makes interaction between them nearly impossible with the exception of gravity or spacetime curvature.