Call upon the Name of the Lord and you shall be Saved.

Jeffrey Bowden · Monday at 12:54 AM

keras said:
Peter is perfectly clear; It is the fiery trial, - the Lords terrible Day of vengeance and wrath, in the context of 'The end of all things is upon us...'1 Peter 4:7, That should not surprise us.
But of course; that Day will surprise and shock everyone who fondly imagined they were going to be rrrrrrraptured!!!!!!

There is no "fiery trial" in the Trib. Peter was referring to the uncomfortable feelings when spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Verses 13 and 14 prove that's true.

Jeff Saunders · Monday at 8:53 AM

keras said:
Peter is perfectly clear; It is the fiery trial, - the Lords terrible Day of vengeance and wrath, in the context of 'The end of all things is upon us...'1 Peter 4:7, That should not surprise us.
But of course; that Day will surprise and shock everyone who fondly imagined they were going to be rrrrrrraptured!!!!!!

In your system of looking at things what do you believe about 1Thes 4:17 and those who are Harpazo,[ raptured] which means to be caught up or snatched away?

Jeff Saunders · Monday at 9:12 AM

keras said:
Revelation 13:8b-9, precludes the idea of people being converted to Christianity during the GT.
The Holy people of God ARE the Church. They are certainly not the Jews!
The 2 Witnesses will preach in that time, but without any success, they will be hated and finally killed. Rev 11:10

No way; the AMill belief is a direct contradiction of Prophecy and of reality.
All my posts do is to refute your wrong beliefs.

Are you saying that no one can convert to Christianity because of Rev 13:8 ? Are you not assuming that only those who have not been written in the book of life are on the earth at that time, thats reading into the text, there could be millions who are written in the book, we don't know. Do you not think the 144000 Jews are not part of the Holy People of God if no who do they belong to and why would God have them as His witnesses if they are not part of his Kingdom? Gal 3:28 for you are all one in Christ Jesus. there is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female- this is the way the Father looks at us, we need to do the same.
With the 2 witnesses you say were without success but that is a assumption that you are reading into the text to make it fit your view.

bling · Monday at 10:25 AM

Dan Perez said:
And since there is no Greek word RAPTURE. does not means that CHRIST IS NOT coming for us in 1 THESS 4:13-17

AND in 2 Thess. 2 :1 -3. !!

And you quoted Joel. 2:38. SHALL CALL. /// QATA. is in. the IMPERFECT TENSE is a a verb. in. the QAL. in. the SINGULAR

And Rom. 10:13. WHOSOEVER ///. PAS. in. the NOMINATIVE CASE in. the SINGULAR.

Better think it over again. as we are SAVED BY GRACE ONLY. !! ROM 10:9 AND 10. !!

dan p

Still do not know from this what calling on the name of Christ is.

keras · Monday at 2:18 PM

Jeffrey Bowden said:
There is no "fiery trial" in the Trib. Peter was referring to the uncomfortable feelings when spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Verses 13 and 14 prove that's true.

1 Peter 4:12, refers to the Sixth Seal, a worldwide disaster, as it was in the days of Noah, but this time by fire. Over 100 other Prophesies prove this. Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:8, +

Jeff Saunders said:
In your system of looking at things what do you believe about 1Thes 4:17 and those who are Harpazo,[ raptured] which means to be caught up or snatched away?

When Jesus Returns He will send His angels to gather His peoples to Him. Into the clouds the earths atmosphere, then to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31 A horizontal transportation, like Philip was; Acts 8:39

Jeff Saunders said:
Are you saying that no one can convert to Christianity because of Rev 13:8

The Bible says that; All the inhabitants of the earth will worship the 'beast'......
But we do know it will only be those who have taken the mark of the beast. Rev 13:16
Those who do not take that mark, will either be kept in a safe location, Rev 12:14, or become martyrs, Rev 12:17

Jeff Saunders said:
Do you not think the 144000 Jews are not part of the Holy People of God

The 144k, are not all Jews. Only 2/12ths will be and they are selected from all the Christian peoples, Rev 7:9

Jeff Saunders · Monday at 5:57 PM

keras said:
1 Peter 4:12, refers to the Sixth Seal, a worldwide disaster, as it was in the days of Noah, but this time by fire. Over 100 other Prophesies prove this. Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:8, +

When Jesus Returns He will send His angels to gather His peoples to Him. Into the clouds the earths atmosphere, then to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31 A horizontal transportation, like Philip was; Acts 8:39

The Bible says that; All the inhabitants of the earth will worship the 'beast'......
But we do know it will only be those who have taken the mark of the beast. Rev 13:16
Those who do not take that mark, will either be kept in a safe location, Rev 12:14, or become martyrs, Rev 12:17

The 144k, are not all Jews. Only 2/12ths will be and they are selected from all the Christian peoples, Rev 7:9

Rev 7:4-8 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed; 144000 from all the tribes of Israel From the tribe of Judah 12000 ....
There is no mention of any Gentiles at all.
It seems to me your digging your hole deeper with this one.
Rev 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count...This is a different group not the 144000 Jews.

keras · Monday at 9:37 PM

Jeff Saunders said:
Rev 7:4-8 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed; 144000 from all the tribes of Israel From the tribe of Judah 12000 ....
There is no mention of any Gentiles at all.
It seems to me your digging your hole deeper with this one.
Rev 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count...This is a different group not the 144000 Jews.

Your confusion and error is readily apparent. The Jews do NOT constitute all of Israel.
The Jewish people know this very well, but foolish Christians support the Jewish State of Israel, so it suits the Jews to not correct them.

The whole system of tribal descent from Jacob, has vanished from humanity, as the mathematics of genetic dispersion confirms. NT teachings like Ephesians 2:11-18 proves that the Lords peoples are identified solely by their faith

Jesus selects the 144k out of the great multitude of Christians. Revelation 14:1-5 They will be divided in 12 groups, named after the sons of Jacob.

Jeffrey Bowden · Tuesday at 12:42 AM

keras said:
1 Peter 4:12, refers to the Sixth Seal, a worldwide disaster, as it was in the days of Noah, but this time by fire. Over 100 other Prophesies prove this. Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:8, +

When Jesus Returns He will send His angels to gather His peoples to Him. Into the clouds the earths atmosphere, then to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31 A horizontal transportation, like Philip was; Acts 8:39

The Bible says that; All the inhabitants of the earth will worship the 'beast'......
But we do know it will only be those who have taken the mark of the beast. Rev 13:16
Those who do not take that mark, will either be kept in a safe location, Rev 12:14, or become martyrs, Rev 12:17

The 144k, are not all Jews. Only 2/12ths will be and they are selected from all the Christian peoples, Rev 7:9

The 144k are 100% Jewish male virgins. Please see Rev 7:4-8 and Rev 14:4.

Jeffrey Bowden · Tuesday at 12:55 AM

keras said:
1 Peter 4:12, refers to the Sixth Seal, a worldwide disaster, as it was in the days of Noah, but this time by fire. Over 100 other Prophesies prove this. Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:8, +

When Jesus Returns He will send His angels to gather His peoples to Him. Into the clouds the earths atmosphere, then to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31 A horizontal transportation, like Philip was; Acts 8:39

The Bible says that; All the inhabitants of the earth will worship the 'beast'......
But we do know it will only be those who have taken the mark of the beast. Rev 13:16
Those who do not take that mark, will either be kept in a safe location, Rev 12:14, or become martyrs, Rev 12:17

The 144k, are not all Jews. Only 2/12ths will be and they are selected from all the Christian peoples, Rev 7:9

There is no connection of 1 Peter 4 with the 6th seal.

The 6th seal has no worlwide disaster associated with it. It's about gathering the world of unbelievers for a mighty display of God's power. That display would prove God exists and is all-powerful.

The goal of all 21 judgments of God's wrath in the Trib is to offer 21 motivations to repent. Failing to do so will otherwise result in eternal condemnation.

keras · Tuesday at 2:10 AM

Jeffrey Bowden said:
The 144k are 100% Jewish male virgins. Please see Rev 7:4-8 and Rev 14:4.

A Jew belongs to the tribe of Judah and Bemjamin. The House of Judah.
The other ten tribes consist of the House of Israel.

Jewish male virgins? Must all be first graders

Jeffrey Bowden said:
The goal of all 21 judgments of God's wrath in the Trib is to offer 21 motivations to repent. Failing to do so will otherwise result in eternal condemnation.

So, you will be on earth to prove your repentance and trust in the Lord.
If a rapture to heaven believer thinks they can escape trials and testing, then they are bastards and not Gods children at all. Hebrews 12:7-8

Jeffrey Bowden · Tuesday at 6:20 AM

keras said:
A Jew belongs to the tribe of Judah and Bemjamin. The House of Judah.
The other ten tribes consist of the House of Israel.

Jewish male virgins? Must all be first graders

So, you will be on earth to prove your repentance and trust in the Lord.
If a rapture to heaven believer thinks they can escape trials and testing, then they are bastards and not Gods children at all. Hebrews 12:7-8

Keras, does Rev 14:1-5 make it crystal clear that the 144k are virgins?

You are ignoring the truth stated by Jesus in Rev 3:10. We will be kept from the Trib and only unbelievers will enter the Trib.

Rev 4:1 is unfulfilled. That is the undisputed verse that says the rapture goes to Heaven, pre-Trib.

Jeff Saunders · Tuesday at 9:45 AM

keras said:
Your confusion and error is readily apparent. The Jews do NOT constitute all of Israel.
The Jewish people know this very well, but foolish Christians support the Jewish State of Israel, so it suits the Jews to not correct them.

The whole system of tribal descent from Jacob, has vanished from humanity, as the mathematics of genetic dispersion confirms. NT teachings like Ephesians 2:11-18 proves that the Lords peoples are identified solely by their faith

Jesus selects the 144k out of the great multitude of Christians. Revelation 14:1-5 They will be divided in 12 groups, named after the sons of Jacob.

How is saying that " The whole system of tribal descent from Jacob, has vanished from humanity" any different from Rom 11:2-5 Elijah thinks he is the only one left yet the Father said I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed to Baal. Can the Father not reserve for Himself 144000 Jews if He wants to, or is that too much for God.
As for the all Jews do not constitute all of Israel, thats a long discussion and I am sure would just be a waist of time.
The idea that the 144000 Jews who are not Jews but named after the tribes, that is totally fabricated, what Scripture did you get that from?
Because I have a understanding of the Father more in line with Origin, and Gregory of Nyssa, my view of the Father is different than that of those who follow Austine's Latin view of the Father, our view of the Father will give us the lense we read Scripture through.

Jeffrey Bowden · Tuesday at 1:02 PM

keras said:
1 Peter 4:12, refers to the Sixth Seal, a worldwide disaster, as it was in the days of Noah, but this time by fire. Over 100 other Prophesies prove this. Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:8, +

When Jesus Returns He will send His angels to gather His peoples to Him. Into the clouds the earths atmosphere, then to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31 A horizontal transportation, like Philip was; Acts 8:39

The Bible says that; All the inhabitants of the earth will worship the 'beast'......
But we do know it will only be those who have taken the mark of the beast. Rev 13:16
Those who do not take that mark, will either be kept in a safe location, Rev 12:14, or become martyrs, Rev 12:17

The 144k, are not all Jews. Only 2/12ths will be and they are selected from all the Christian peoples, Rev 7:9

Keras, in Rev 3:10, Jesus defines all the inhabitants of Earth during the Trib. All of them are unbelievers.

Jeffrey Bowden · Tuesday at 1:29 PM

keras said:
A Jew belongs to the tribe of Judah and Bemjamin. The House of Judah.
The other ten tribes consist of the House of Israel.

Jewish male virgins? Must all be first graders

So, you will be on earth to prove your repentance and trust in the Lord.
If a rapture to heaven believer thinks they can escape trials and testing, then they are bastards and not Gods children at all. Hebrews 12:7-8

Keras, prove Rev 4:1 is fulfilled. That's the pre-Trib rapture.

Jeffrey Bowden · Tuesday at 1:38 PM

keras said:
1 Peter 4:12, refers to the Sixth Seal, a worldwide disaster, as it was in the days of Noah, but this time by fire. Over 100 other Prophesies prove this. Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:8, +

When Jesus Returns He will send His angels to gather His peoples to Him. Into the clouds the earths atmosphere, then to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31 A horizontal transportation, like Philip was; Acts 8:39

The Bible says that; All the inhabitants of the earth will worship the 'beast'......
But we do know it will only be those who have taken the mark of the beast. Rev 13:16
Those who do not take that mark, will either be kept in a safe location, Rev 12:14, or become martyrs, Rev 12:17

The 144k, are not all Jews. Only 2/12ths will be and they are selected from all the Christian peoples, Rev 7:9

Keras, 1 Peter 4:12 is only referencing spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Peter was teaching about the unnerving feelings one can have when spreading the Gospel. Verses 13 and 14 prove it.

Jeffrey Bowden · Tuesday at 2:08 PM

Jeff Saunders said:
In your system of looking at things what do you believe about 1Thes 4:17 and those who are Harpazo,[ raptured] which means to be caught up or snatched away?

Mr. Saunders, all three judgments related to the end times are held in the air.

The first judgment is the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10). In 2 Tim 4:8, Apostle Paul says about that specific judgment, that it will occur "on that day" --- implied to be the day of the pre-Trib rapture. Therefore, 1 Th 4:17 will be our springboard into clouds and our positioning in the air.

keras · Tuesday at 2:40 PM

Jeffrey Bowden said:
Keras, prove Rev 4:1 is fulfilled. That's the pre-Trib rapture.

It is not anything of the kind. Just Gods call to John for him to receive Revelation.
You constantly show your bias and wrong beliefs. We all must endure trials and testing, the Lord will try and Judge everyone.

Jeffrey Bowden · Tuesday at 4:14 PM

keras said:
1 Peter 4:12, refers to the Sixth Seal, a worldwide disaster, as it was in the days of Noah, but this time by fire. Over 100 other Prophesies prove this. Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:8, +

When Jesus Returns He will send His angels to gather His peoples to Him. Into the clouds the earths atmosphere, then to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31 A horizontal transportation, like Philip was; Acts 8:39

The Bible says that; All the inhabitants of the earth will worship the 'beast'......
But we do know it will only be those who have taken the mark of the beast. Rev 13:16
Those who do not take that mark, will either be kept in a safe location, Rev 12:14, or become martyrs, Rev 12:17

The 144k, are not all Jews. Only 2/12ths will be and they are selected from all the Christian peoples, Rev 7:9

Keras, you are changing the meaning of Matt 24:31. It does NOT say where those folks are gathered to.

The best guess is they are the sheep in Matt 25:31-40.

keras said:
It is not anything of the kind. Just Gods call to John for him to receive Revelation.
You constantly show your bias and wrong beliefs. We all must endure trials and testing, the Lord will try and Judge everyone.

Keras, Apostle John was shown a supernatural vision of each chapter of Rev. He wrote each chapter according to what he saw and heard in each supernatural scene.

John confirmed how he learned all of Rev in Rev 22:8 (ESV): I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me,

It is thereby proven, in John's own words, that Rev 4:1 is unfulfilled and will therefore serve as the pre-Trub rapture of the Church.

Jeffrey Bowden · Tuesday at 4:17 PM

keras said:
1 Peter 4:12, refers to the Sixth Seal, a worldwide disaster, as it was in the days of Noah, but this time by fire. Over 100 other Prophesies prove this. Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:8, +

When Jesus Returns He will send His angels to gather His peoples to Him. Into the clouds the earths atmosphere, then to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31 A horizontal transportation, like Philip was; Acts 8:39

The Bible says that; All the inhabitants of the earth will worship the 'beast'......
But we do know it will only be those who have taken the mark of the beast. Rev 13:16
Those who do not take that mark, will either be kept in a safe location, Rev 12:14, or become martyrs, Rev 12:17

The 144k, are not all Jews. Only 2/12ths will be and they are selected from all the Christian peoples, Rev 7:9

Keras, you are changing the meaning of Matt 24:31. It does NOT say where those folks are gathered to.

The best guess is they are the sheep in Matt 25:31-40.

Dan Perez · Tuesday at 4:18 PM

keras said:
Revelation 13:8b-9, precludes the idea of people being converted to Christianity during the GT.
The Holy people of God ARE the Church. They are certainly not the Jews!
The 2 Witnesses will preach in that time, but without any success, they will be hated and finally killed. Rev 11:10

No way; the AMill belief is a direct contradiction of Prophecy and of reality.
All my posts do is to refute your wrong beliefs.

And Eph 1:4 JUT AS CHOSE. /// EKLEGOMAI. us for HIMSELF BEFORE //. PRO. the over throw of bv the world

and Christ does not make MISTAKES. !!

dan p

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