Is this the real reality? What do you believe or think?

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 12:23 AM

Alot of people say that you can't prove that there are other places other than this, and that whether there is or not is a matter of whether you think there is or not, or what you believe, and I think that they are correct in that mostly really, and that it really does just come down to what you think, or a choice to believe it or not actually, etc.

Personally, I think there is, or at least could be, and this is for a lot of reasons, most of which most of you probably won't believe, so I'm going to try to stick to just only the ones that you maybe can believe maybe, ok.

I don't think this is the real reality, and that what each of us is, goes well beyond this actually, etc. I think that this reality is just a sub-set of another reality which is the real reality, etc. That this is more like a program, or simulation, and that most of what we see/experience here is only temporary, and that this is not the greatest or highest reality, but is only a part or sub-set of that other reality, etc. Also that this reality is deterministic also actually, etc. And that some of us maybe even had a pre-existence before this maybe, but that memory of only just fails us right now currently, etc, but that also might be re-restored upon re-entering maybe. There are a lot of possibilities, etc.

Why this reality or our temporary existence here is another discussion for another time, although I do think I have some answers for that though actually.

Anyway, what do you think?

Can you exercise some sort of faith/belief that this reality might not be the only reality, or the highest or greatest reality? Or at least allow for the possibility of that maybe?

What do you think?

Take Care/God Bless.

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 12:41 AM

Neogaia777 said:
Alot of people say that you can't prove that there are other places other than this, and that whether there is or not is a matter of whether you think there is or not, or what you believe, and I think that they are correct in that mostly really, and that it really does just come down to what you think, or a choice to believe it or not actually, etc.

Personally, I think there is, or at least could be, and this is for a lot of reasons, most of which most of you probably won't believe, so I'm going to try to stick to just only the ones that you maybe can believe maybe, ok.

I don't think this is the real reality, and that what each of us is, goes well beyond this actually, etc. I think that this reality is just a sub-set of another reality which is the real reality, etc. That this is more like a program, or simulation, and that most of what we see/experience here is only temporary, and that this is not the greatest or highest reality, but is only a part or sub-set of that other reality, etc. Also that this reality is deterministic also actually, etc. And that some of us maybe even had a pre-existence before this maybe, but that memory of only just fails us right now currently, etc, but that also might be re-restored upon re-entering maybe. There are a lot of possibilities, etc.

Why this reality or our temporary existence here is another discussion for another time, although I do think I have some answers for that though actually.

Anyway, what do you think?

Can you exercise some sort of faith/belief that this reality might not be the only reality, or the highest or greatest reality? Or at least allow for the possibility of that maybe?

What do you think?

Take Care/God Bless.

Or there might not be maybe. But I've experienced some things in this reality that seem to indicate otherwise though, which gets into the parts you probably won't believe maybe, unless you too also personally also experienced them personally, etc.

But this reality can be very, very much easily altered/changed/manipulated from that other place, or those other places, etc. That for me at least, shows or seems to indicate that this is not the real, or at least highest or greatest (or realest) reality, and that it's more like a fake, or simulated reality/program really that is only just temporary, etc.

God Bless

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 12:54 AM

It's an incredibly long simulation, but that's because it's not just for/about us, but is also for God the Spirit/God in the Old Testament, and Jesus, and all of the other spirit beings as well, etc. Maybe we'll all ascend together one day, etc.

Seems Jesus already did though, etc, at least until he comes back from that place one day for the very last and final chapter of this simulation/reality, until we all maybe ascend together after that maybe, etc, or at least some of us will get to anyway, etc.

Take Care/God Bless.

eleos1954 · Tuesday at 12:59 PM

Neogaia777 said:
Alot of people say that you can't prove that there are other places other than this, and that whether there is or not is a matter of whether you think there is or not, or what you believe, and I think that they are correct in that mostly really, and that it really does just come down to what you think, or a choice to believe it or not actually, etc.

Personally, I think there is, or at least could be, and this is for a lot of reasons, most of which most of you probably won't believe, so I'm going to try to stick to just only the ones that you maybe can believe maybe, ok.

I don't think this is the real reality, and that what each of us is, goes well beyond this actually, etc. I think that this reality is just a sub-set of another reality which is the real reality, etc. That this is more like a program, or simulation, and that most of what we see/experience here is only temporary, and that this is not the greatest or highest reality, but is only a part or sub-set of that other reality, etc. Also that this reality is deterministic also actually, etc. And that some of us maybe even had a pre-existence before this maybe, but that memory of only just fails us right now currently, etc, but that also might be re-restored upon re-entering maybe. There are a lot of possibilities, etc.

Why this reality or our temporary existence here is another discussion for another time, although I do think I have some answers for that though actually.

Anyway, what do you think?

Can you exercise some sort of faith/belief that this reality might not be the only reality, or the highest or greatest reality? Or at least allow for the possibility of that maybe?

What do you think?

Take Care/God Bless.

The universe is VAST ... we really don't have access to much (majority) of it ... it will always be unknown .... only theories (beliefs) about these things.

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 2:16 PM

eleos1954 said:
The universe is VAST ... we really don't have access to much (majority) of it ... it will always be unknown .... only theories (beliefs) about these things.

Could just be a backdrop for us maybe, like in a computer simulation/program. Meant for us to expand our minds and horizons and make us grow. There is a limit we can't observe past right now.

Many open world video games that we have right now (which are nothing in comparison) (we've only really been making them over the last 20 or 30 or 40 years, etc) the open worlds seem so big and overwhelming at first, and so does learning about it, or learning about the game, until you do, then all of the sudden it doesn't seem so overwhelming/big, and can get smaller, or a little bit small.

Also, the stuff in the background isn't of any real substance yet, until you go there, and then it is, but the stuff you leave no longer is anymore temporarily, until you go back to it, or go back there, etc, etc, etc, anyway, how do we know that what we're right now seeing/observing, or this incredibly huge, big, vast universe, with all of it's mathematics for us to study/learn, isn't any different really, etc?

Even our looking at it might not be made manifest until we're actually looking at it, or are actively trying to observe it, much like it is in computer games, that we've really only been developing over the last 30 or 40 years, and that's being generous with open world video games, etc.

And just like MMO online games that can handle a lot of players/people all operating in the same simulated world at the same time, so can this reality, etc.

God Bless.

Mark Quayle · Tuesday at 5:11 PM

Neogaia777 said:
Alot of people say that you can't prove that there are other places other than this, and that whether there is or not is a matter of whether you think there is or not, or what you believe, and I think that they are correct in that mostly really, and that it really does just come down to what you think, or a choice to believe it or not actually, etc.

Personally, I think there is, or at least could be, and this is for a lot of reasons, most of which most of you probably won't believe, so I'm going to try to stick to just only the ones that you maybe can believe maybe, ok.

I don't think this is the real reality, and that what each of us is, goes well beyond this actually, etc. I think that this reality is just a sub-set of another reality which is the real reality, etc. That this is more like a program, or simulation, and that most of what we see/experience here is only temporary, and that this is not the greatest or highest reality, but is only a part or sub-set of that other reality, etc. Also that this reality is deterministic also actually, etc. And that some of us maybe even had a pre-existence before this maybe, but that memory of only just fails us right now currently, etc, but that also might be re-restored upon re-entering maybe. There are a lot of possibilities, etc.

Why this reality or our temporary existence here is another discussion for another time, although I do think I have some answers for that though actually.

Anyway, what do you think?

Can you exercise some sort of faith/belief that this reality might not be the only reality, or the highest or greatest reality? Or at least allow for the possibility of that maybe?

What do you think?

Take Care/God Bless.

Reality depends on God alone, even for its very existence, not to mention for ontology. It doesn't depend on us.

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 6:01 PM

Mark Quayle said:
Reality depends on God alone, even for its very existence, not to mention for ontology. It doesn't depend on us.

What does that have to do with whether we are living in a lesser reality or not?

Or what does it have to do with anything else I said really?

Just for the record, I never said it depended on us, etc.

God Bless.

timewerx · Tuesday at 6:48 PM

Neogaia777 said:
Alot of people say that you can't prove that there are other places other than this, and that whether there is or not is a matter of whether you think there is or not, or what you believe, and I think that they are correct in that mostly really, and that it really does just come down to what you think, or a choice to believe it or not actually, etc.

Personally, I think there is, or at least could be, and this is for a lot of reasons, most of which most of you probably won't believe, so I'm going to try to stick to just only the ones that you maybe can believe maybe, ok.

I don't think this is the real reality, and that what each of us is, goes well beyond this actually, etc. I think that this reality is just a sub-set of another reality which is the real reality, etc. That this is more like a program, or simulation, and that most of what we see/experience here is only temporary, and that this is not the greatest or highest reality, but is only a part or sub-set of that other reality, etc. Also that this reality is deterministic also actually, etc. And that some of us maybe even had a pre-existence before this maybe, but that memory of only just fails us right now currently, etc, but that also might be re-restored upon re-entering maybe. There are a lot of possibilities, etc.

Why this reality or our temporary existence here is another discussion for another time, although I do think I have some answers for that though actually.

Anyway, what do you think?

Can you exercise some sort of faith/belief that this reality might not be the only reality, or the highest or greatest reality? Or at least allow for the possibility of that maybe?

What do you think?

Take Care/God Bless.

Time gives meaning to reality. At the border of reality like the quantum level, time ceases to have meaning, yet "meaningless" can have meaning "elsewhere".

But nature absolutely, very cleverly-designed to prevent us finding "elsewhere" at the very least, not physically.

Science hints at the possibility yet having absolutely no means to prove it. If "elsewhere" is another reality, we have no means of finding out. Yet, elsewhere is not exactly a destination. It can be within you.

Reality at the quantum level is like a very cleverly designed security lock. It's far more cleverly designed than anything we have in our computers.

Mark Quayle · Tuesday at 7:20 PM

Neogaia777 said:
What does that have to do with whether we are living in a lesser reality or not?

Or what does it have to do with anything else I said really?

Just for the record, I never said it depended on us, etc.

God Bless.

True, you did not.

We are living in the same reality in which Christ died for our sins. So it is real. But, according to God's description, this, (the temporal), is but a vapor compared to the solid reality of the spiritual economy of the eternal. Yet, this is real by God's establishing it. So the notion of it being a lesser reality has some value, and even the idea of it being a simulation, or even a mere thought in the mind of God, has some reason to it, though I don't think that quite does it either—we being ignorant of exactly how things are in him.

You did suggest the notion that this we consider reality could be like the video game worlds, where this or that "isn't of any real substance yet, until you go there, and then it is", in which case, well, yes, it would therefore depend on us.

But the point I was trying to make has to do with the superiority of God, or, in your scenario, the programmer of the game/simulation. It brings to mind the difference between what some supposed philosopher asks, "If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" My answer is, "Of course it does! Who do we think we are, that such a thing would depend on US being there? GOD is there.

This universe is for HIM! He made it for himself! And we are part of it. I'm certainly looking forward to that greater reality, where we will see him as he is.

You may enjoy the notion some religious cult had hundreds of years ago, who claimed that there was no reality, but only illusion, or, IF reality, it was reality created by the gods, on the spot, thus: These 'gods' watched us to see what our thinking would suppose logical cause-and-effect produce, and create that right then and there on the spot for us, to lead us on blind.

Mark Quayle · Tuesday at 7:33 PM

There is objective reality. Rationally, it does not depend on us to see or know it, but on the First Cause.

I like to think that this temporal reality will be "swallowed up into" that larger reality. The term, "comprehended by", in some places in the Bible, notably John 1:5 (in the KJV), provides a delicious play on words.

RDKirk · Tuesday at 7:51 PM

Neogaia777 said:
Can you exercise some sort of faith/belief that this reality might not be the only reality, or the highest or greatest reality? Or at least allow for the possibility of that maybe?

I think that prospect is basic to Christian belief.

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 8:20 PM

@timewerx @Mark Quayle @RDKirk

Thanks for your input guys, off to bed.

God Bless.

FireDragon76 · Tuesday at 8:26 PM

Reality has depth we don't ordinarily perceive. Even quantum physics gestures towards this, once you consider that much of quantum physics is a reflection or how we understand the act of measurement itself.

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 8:54 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there evidence of this reality being observer dependent? Not like in that we create it or make it or anything, but just like in an MMO video game, which is a simulated world/reality, it's not like those other programs that make up the rest of that reality are not there, or do not exist, but it's just that they don't exist in just only one place, or as quote/unquote "solid", until each individual member, say their computer monitors or tv screens, observes it, and then it fixes into that one position for as long as the observer (or each individual observer/player), is in need of it to be, but that then it goes right back to, still being there or still existing as a part of the overall program, but just not fixed in one single place/space, or seen/observed as being quote/unquote "solid/rendered" until an individual observer is in need of it to be again, but only for as long or as often as those each individual observers are in need of it to be, and only for what they need it to be, and only for as long or as often as they need it to be, in or at those individual moments, and then it goes right back to being un-solid, or as being, for lack of a better word to describe it, as being "everywhere and/or maybe also nowhere" again after that again, etc. And this is usually to save a whole heck of a lot of active computer memory/space (ROM/RAM), or need of graphical rendering, which taxes computer systems/programs very, very much greatly if it always had to do all of it actively, etc.

God Bless.

Akita Suggagaki · Tuesday at 9:08 PM

This reality that we experience is limited by our senses. So, yes, it is a subset of what is really out there. No faith neede. It is a known fact. To me the more interesting question is if we can expand and enhance our senses. Of course we do that with devices. But can we train ourselves to perceive more?

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 9:12 PM

Neogaia777 said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there evidence of this reality being observer dependent? Not like in that we create it or make it or anything, but just like in an MMO video game, which is a simulated world/reality, it's not like those other programs that make up the rest of that reality are not there, or do not exist, but it's just that they don't exist in just only one place, or as quote/unquote "solid", until each individual member, say their computer monitors or tv screens, observes it, and then it fixes into that one position for as long as the observer (or each individual observer/player), is in need of it to be, but that then it goes right back to, still being there or still existing as a part of the overall program, but just not fixed in one single place/space, or seen/observed as being quote/unquote "solid/rendered" until an individual observer is in need of it to be again, but only for as long or as often as those each individual observers are in need of it to be, and only for what they need it to be, and only for as long or as often as they need it to be, in or at those individual moments, and then it goes right back to being un-solid, or as being, for lack of a better word to describe it, as being "everywhere and/or maybe also nowhere" again after that again, etc. And this is usually to save a whole heck of a lot of active computer memory/space (ROM/RAM), or need of graphical rendering, which taxes computer systems/programs very, very much greatly if it always had to do all of it actively, etc.

God Bless.

Some video games developers will build into their computer simulations/video games the ability to "mod" them for certain players, most usually players on PC, and give console commands, and things like that built into their simulations/video games, but I don't know if this particular simulation has anything like that though maybe? But it might I guess? Maybe Jesus had access to console commands or was a PC/computer modder of this computer simulation maybe?

God Bless.

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 9:14 PM

Akita Suggagaki said:
This reality that we experience is limited by our senses. So, yes, it is a subset of what is really out there. No faith neede. It is a known fact. To me the more interesting question is if we can expand and enhance our senses. Of course we do that with devices. But can we train ourselves to perceive more?

Possible if the program/simulation has already allowed for it, and has already anticipated/fully prepared for/allowed for it already, etc.

FireDragon76 · Tuesday at 9:17 PM

Neogaia777 said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there evidence of this reality being observer dependent? Not like we create it or make it or anything, but just like in an MMO video game, which is a simulated world reality, it's not like those other programs that make up the rest of that reality are not there, or do not exist, but it's just that they don't exist in just only one place, or as quote/unquote "solid", until each individual member, say their computer monitors or tv screens, observes it, and then it fixes into one position for as long as the observer (or each individual observer/player, is in need of it to be, but then it goes right back to, still being there or still existing as a part of the overall program, but just not fixed in one single place/space, or seen/observed as being quote/unquote "solid/rendered" until an individual observer is in need of it to be again, but only for as long or as often as those each individual observers are in need of it to be, and only for what they need it to be, for as long or as often as they need it to be, in or at those individual moments, and then it goes right back to being un-solid, or as being, for lack of a better word to describe it, as being everywhere again after that, etc. And this is usually to save a whole heck of a lot of active computer memory/space (ROM/RAM), or need of graphical rendering, which taxes computer systems/programs very, very much greatly, etc.

God Bless.

There's some New Age or "simulation hypothesis" mysticism along those lines, but I think that kind of thing risks flattening alot of complexity and uncertainty out of the picture in favor of a story that is just as much shaped by modern mythology as saying "God did it" reflects ancient modes of perceiving the world. Quantum physics itself might not be reflective of "the real world" so much as our underlying epistemological or philosophical commitments, leading us to certain interpretations of what may well be a continuous, infinite, or ineffable underlying reality.

Space and time exist relationally, that's clear from the General Theory of Relativity, but that doesn't mean they aren't real. I think that's where the "simulation mysticism" goes from being just a crude analogy, to a flattened ontology (philosophy of being). There are worldviews, like certain Hindu school of thought (Vedanta), that have analogous concepts about the phenomenal world, but they do so for soteriological reasons, not necessarily as an absolute denial of the reality of the phenomenal world.

A more parsimonious, simple, non-reductive explanation might be that the evidence points more towards reality being relational and participatory (eg, "you're part of reality and "co-creating" it in the local sense"). That reconciles better with taking both science and metaphysical realism seriously.

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 9:19 PM

Akita Suggagaki said:
This reality that we experience is limited by our senses. So, yes, it is a subset of what is really out there. No faith neede. It is a known fact. To me the more interesting question is if we can expand and enhance our senses. Of course we do that with devices. But can we train ourselves to perceive more?

Our senses are like a video game players speakers/screens in a way, etc.

Neogaia777 · Tuesday at 9:29 PM

Neogaia777 said:
Some video games developers will build into their computer simulations/video games the ability to "mod" them for certain players, most usually players on PC, and give console commands, and things like that built into their simulations/video games, but I don't know if this particular simulation has anything like that though maybe? But it might I guess? Maybe Jesus had access to console commands or was a PC/computer modder of this computer simulation maybe?

God Bless.

I guess it's possible that we could mod/modify this reality though our faith belief, or intentionality maybe, or some other things maybe?

Thoughts have been shown to change water molecules, which is a lot of reality already, etc. Also been shown that some pretty amazing things can also happen, when you 100% believe something, etc.

Take Care/God Bless.

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