'Don Lemon taken into custody for his involvement in livestreaming protest at Minnesota church.'

Tropical Wilds · Monday at 2:38 PM

Aldebaran said:
Anyone who wants to document things that are happening around them doesn't have to be members of an established press. If you read the constitution, the 1st amendment doesn't say anything about requiring credentials in order to be able to document things that are going on in your community or in government.

To have access, you often need press passes. I can’t show up to the White House and say I’m press, and then get the access and benefits of the press.

However, it’s interesting you’re saying the first amendment is enough to make you press… Guess that means you have no complaint against Lemon as he was clearly filming for a news program and, as you said that allows him to “document things that are going on in your community or in government.”

Aldebaran said:
People keep trying to defend Alex pretti as being a journalist who was simply filming. It's time to have an actual standard before posting arguements.

Link and cite where I used that argument or said Pretti was press.

Oompa Loompa said:
Isn't that the intention? I am getting mixed signals. You blow whistles to get attention, then complain about the attention because it is not the desired attention.

I’m not complaining about the attention. I’m laughing at how much it bothers people and how they fixate on it. It’s funny to me.

BPPLEE · Monday at 3:10 PM

Tropical Wilds said:
Who was found to not be carrying his press identification, so had given the impression he was attending as a private citizen. That’s even per the link given above.

How do you get press passes to a riot?

ThatRobGuy · Monday at 3:19 PM

Tropical Wilds said:
However, it’s interesting you’re saying the first amendment is enough to make you press… Guess that means you have no complaint against Lemon as he was clearly filming for a news program and, as you said that allows him to “document things that are going on in your community or in government.”

Which news program or bona fide journalism outlet was Lemon filming for?

Lemon no longer has institutional backing (fired from CNN in 2023) and is now operating as an independent podcaster, so which traditional credentials would he possess that would allow such access?

Certainly there has to be a higher bar to clear than "I ordered a custom mic with my initials on it, and my buddy here has a camera phone, so let me in, I'm journalisming"

And even full fledged press credentials don't grant legal immunity to trespass, break and enter, or violate other laws. A CNN journalist with full White House press credentials still can't walk into a private residence, a restricted government facility, or—as in this case—disrupt a church service just because they're "covering" people who are doing those things.

Oompa Loompa · Monday at 3:56 PM

Tropical Wilds said:
I’m not complaining about the attention. I’m laughing at how much it bothers people and how they fixate on it. It’s funny to me.

We find it funny as well, and we are not bothered by it.

Tropical Wilds · Monday at 4:09 PM

BPPLEE said:
How do you get press passes to a riot?

Well, a brief search shows people who want press observer passes get them via their employer or other agency.

Vambram · Monday at 4:36 PM

Belk said:
Yes

We shall see.

Pommer · Monday at 4:52 PM

BPPLEE said:
How do you get press passes to a riot?

How many riots begin as riots, do we think?

RileyG · Monday at 4:53 PM

Pommer said:
How many riots begin as riots, do we think?

Something must be provoked, I think?

Oompa Loompa · Monday at 5:16 PM

Tropical Wilds said:
Well, a brief search shows people who want press observer passes get them via their employer or other agency.

Who is Don Lemon's employer? YouTube?

RileyG · Monday at 5:29 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
Who is Don Lemon's employer? YouTube?

I don’t think he even has one anymore.

Oompa Loompa · Monday at 5:36 PM

RileyG said:
I don’t think he even has one anymore.

Yes. While acting as an independent freelance journalist, he had no credentials. No different than any other guy with a YouTube channel.

RileyG · Monday at 5:39 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
Yes. While acting as an independent freelance journalist, he had no credentials. No different than any other guy with a YouTube channel.

Indeed.

Fervent · Monday at 5:58 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
Certainly there has to be a higher bar to clear than "I ordered a custom mic with my initials on it, and my buddy here has a camera phone, so let me in, I'm journalisming"

Journalists don't have unlimited access or any right to engage in criminal actions, but why shouldn't there be independent, self-identified journalists? who should serve as the gatekeeper for information? Seems to me journalism is one area that desperately needs democrtization.

Pommer · Monday at 6:19 PM

Fervent said:
Journalists don't have unlimited access or any right to engage in criminal actions, but why shouldn't there be independent, self-identified journalists? who should serve as the gatekeeper for information? Seems to me journalism is one area that desperately needs democrtization.

What do you mean by “democrtization” (and I mean democratization, as I’m sure you did)?

Fervent · Monday at 6:23 PM

Pommer said:
What do you mean by “democrtization” (and I mean democratization, as I’m sure you did)?

Taken out of the hands of media conglomerates, increased citizen journalism basically.

ThatRobGuy · Monday at 6:35 PM

Fervent said:
Journalists don't have unlimited access or any right to engage in criminal actions, but why shouldn't there be independent, self-identified journalists? who should serve as the gatekeeper for information? Seems to me journalism is one area that desperately needs democrtization.

Lack of democratization isn't the issue by any stretch...

There are a plethora of recognized journalistic outlets out there left, right, and center, and ranging from heavily opinion based, to dry "stats-only" based. (and many shown in the chart above shouldn't be considered true journalism either, there's already too many)

...but we have to find some happy medium between legitimate journalism (as an institution) and some guy with a 300-follower Substack and a camera phone.

I would go as far as saying the reason why misinformation and/or hyper-partisan narratives worm their way into the ethos is specifically because of how much the internet as democratized "journalism".

Otherwise, we'll have 200 million people whipping out their phones and saying "I'm a journalist" when it's legally convenient in order to claim press privileges.

We don't want journalism to go the way of the "Wellness" industry.

RileyG · Monday at 6:41 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
Lack of democratization isn't the issue by any stretch...

View attachment 376108

There are a plethora of recognized journalistic outlets out there left, right, and center, and ranging from heavily opinion based, to dry "stats-only" based. (and many shown in the chart above shouldn't be considered true journalism either, there's already too many)

...but we have to find some happy medium between legitimate journalism (as an institution) and some guy with a 300-follower Substack and a camera phone.

I would go as far as saying the reason why misinformation and/or hyper-partisan narratives worm their way into the ethos is specifically because of how much the internet as democratized "journalism".

Otherwise, we'll have 200 million people whipping out their phones and saying "I'm a journalist" when it's legally convenient in order to claim press privileges.

We don't want journalism to go the way of the "Wellness" industry.

Interesting graphic, thanks for sharing.

(Not to go off topic, but I noticed Maddox was missing).

Fervent · Monday at 6:41 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
Lack of democratization isn't the issue by any stretch...

View attachment 376108

There are a plethora of recognized journalistic outlets out there left, right, and center, and ranging from heavily opinion based, to dry "stats-only" based.

The notion that there is a "right" and a "left" is largely a byproduct of the fact that for all those outlets there are only a handful of ownership groups. It's the illusion of options, combined with tribal identity.

ThatRobGuy said:
...but we have to find some happy medium between legitimate journalism (as an institution) and some guy with a 300-follower Substack and a camera phone.

I would go as far as saying the reason why misinformation and/or hyper-partisan narratives worm their way into the ethos is specifically because of how much the internet as democratized "journalism".

The internet hardly democratized journalism, since the ISPs and domain holders belong to the same legacy media corporations. We have what we have because it serves the needs of the elites to keep the common folk arguing over minutiae and defending their team.

ThatRobGuy said:
Otherwise, we'll have 200 million people whipping out their phones and saying "I'm a journalist" when it's legally convenient in order to claim press privileges.

I am not seeing the problem here.

ThatRobGuy said:
We don't want journalism to go the way of the "Wellness" industry.

you mean become a horizontal monopoly/oligarchy? Or do you mean "holistic medicine' or whatever that quakery is going by nowadays?

ThatRobGuy · Monday at 7:00 PM

Fervent said:
I am not seeing the problem here.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4210993-jan-6-defendant-who-claimed-he-was-a-journalist-gets-convicted/

There were literally J6 rioters trying to use the "I was just an independent journalist there to record the events, see, I wore a go-pro helmet cam while I was in there"

Fervent said:
you mean become a horizontal monopoly/oligarchy? Or do you mean "holistic medicine' or whatever that quakery is going by nowadays?

The latter...

A person with a glorified blog, not affiliated with any real journalistic outlet, calling themselves a journalist is the same as a chiropractor or homeopath calling themselves "a doctor"

ThatRobGuy · Monday at 7:03 PM

RileyG said:
(Not to go off topic, but I noticed Maddox was missing).

It's because I didn't zoom in lol... if you go to the Ad Fontes site, and zoon in on the chart, it shows way more.

https://app.adfontesmedia.com/chart/interactive?utm_source=adfontesmedia&utm_medium=website

Did you mean Rachel Maddow?

She's in there if you zoom in

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'Don Lemon taken into custody for his involvement in livestreaming protest at Minnesota church.'

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