Gerald Weston says; "The biblical holy days". Gerald Weston is a Sabbatarian; who presumes to deny Sunday, and yet later on; shows a verse in Lev 23

SabbatarianSundayer · Monday at 7:52 AM

Gerald Weston says; "The biblical holy days".
Gerald Weston is a Sabbatarian; who presumes to deny Sunday, and yet later on; shows a verse in Lev 23.
While the biggest issue still; is on genuine vrs "counterfeit" bibles.
Gerald says; Millions read the Bible; but don't understand the big picture found in its pages. The reason; they disregard the days God commands. ...
If that means; Sabbath is the day we should worship on, and not Sunday; then what is his explanation on 2 Cor 3:7; as the 10 Cs is abolished and Sunday is logically implied?
Gerald quotes Matt 5:17; and wants us to think the we take our "Sabbath" orders from Jesus! We don't!
Does Matt 19:17; mean to keep the 10 Cs? Sabbath would need to be specified; and that wasn't.
Also because Paul is our final Sabbath commander; who said, Don't bother with Sabbath, or the 10 Cs.
Luke 6:46; is not a reason to keep Sabbath; as Jesus broke Sabbath.
As Gerald mentions about Jesus breaking Sabbath; or No!?
Gerald talks about law. Will there be any mention of Gal 6:2?So far; No!
1 John 2:3-4; does not mean; we need to keep Sabbath.
And still no mention of 2 Cor 3:7?

BobRyan · Monday at 8:17 AM

SabbatarianSundayer said:
what is his explanation on 2 Cor 3:7; as the 10 Cs is abolished and Sunday is logically implied?
Gerald quotes Matt 5:17; and wants us to think the we take our "Sabbath" orders from Jesus! We don't!

SabbatarianSundayer said:
Does Matt 19:17; mean to keep the 10 Cs? Sabbath would need to be specified; and that wasn't.

Neither was "do not take God's name in vain" specified in Matt 19
Neither was "have no other gods before me" specified in Matt 19

Matt 19 (in context) was not Christ saying "I hereby delete all of God's commandments and replace them with this"

SabbatarianSundayer said:
Also because Paul is our final Sabbath commander;

Paul did not give us the Sabbath
He never declared himself to be the "scripture deleter in chief" as some have imagined it

But Jesus' enemies did frequently charge him with sin including breaking the Sabbath.

Interesting thread on that topic

BobRyan said:
Heads up for readers of this thread: in a world that has Satan as its god ("the god of this world" according to Paul in 2 Cor 4:4), with the sinful nature at war with God's Law according to Rom 8:6-8, you may expect to see "obedience to God's Word" called "legalism", and God's commandments diminished, downsized, deleted.
===========================

Ex 20:
8 “Remember THE Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed THE Sabbath day and made it holy. (Sanctified it)

Gen 2:2-3
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

God's Law, God's Commandments
1. First and foremost refers to the TEN COMMANDMENTS Deut 4:12-13
2. A spoke the Ten "And added no more' Deut 5:22. (only the TEN inside the Ark)

So then: The moral law first and foremost includes the TEN, (whatever else it would include)

1 Cor 6 Paul condemns breaking the TEN
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

where the first commandment with a promise is "honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2

Bible-aware Mankind Chooses one of the following as response:
1. Accept God's commandments, affirm and obey (see Rom 8:4-9)
2. Edit God's Commandments via tradition Mark 7:7-13
3. Downsize God's Commandments and ignore James 2
4. Declare God's commandments to be deleted/ended, fully ignoring James 2:4-13 regarding God's Royal LAW

The Bible says:
Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath made holy, set apart for holy use, dedicated to God
Ex 20:11 the Sabbath began in Eden, when God sanctified it and made it holy, points to Gen 2.
Mark 2:27 the Sabbath made for mankind, not mankind made for the Sabbath
speaks to the making of both, Gen 1-2

7 days of creation week where the only thing made on the 7th day is the Ex 20:11 Sabbath

The majority of Christianity admits to this Bible truth

Baptist Confession of faith section 19 the TEN start in Eden (not a downsized nine)

D.L. Moody sermon on the TEN -- the Sabbath begins in Eden

Westminster confession of faith section 19 all TEN begin in Eden

C.H. Spurgeon all TEN from Eden

R.C. Sproul Sabbath commandment still valid (though speculated to have been edited in the NT without saying it)

Catholic Catechism Sabbath still valid (even those who speculate that it was edited to point to Sunday after the cross)

Gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath blessing Is 56:27
Acts 13 gentiles in synagogue on Sabbath, wait for Jews to leave after hearing the gospel, then ask Paul to schedule more Gospel preaching the "Next Sabbath"
(instead of "tomorrow)

Sabbath kept by all mankind for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth Isaiah 66:23

Jesus condemns editing/downsizing even one of them via man-made tradition Mark 7:7-13
James says to break one , is to break them all James 2;0-13

SabbatarianSundayer · Monday at 8:38 AM

What is our hot topic; Sabbath, or the other commands?
Does 2 Cor 3:7; mean 10 Cs abolished?
Can we therefore sin? No; Gal 6:2.
What point do you think you have?

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 8:58 AM

SabbatarianSundayer said:
What is our hot topic; Sabbath, or the other commands?
Does 2 Cor 3:7; mean 10 Cs abolished?
Can we therefore sin? No; Gal 6:2.
What point do you think you have?

2Cor3:7 is speaking of the ministration, the wages of sin is death Rom6:23 so quite plainly by this passage 2Cor3:7 we know breaking the Ten Commandments is sin. There is no death penalty for keeping the Ten Commandments, only for breaking them. Jesus now ministers from a heavenly Temple, where there is still the Ten Commandments under His mercy seat Exo25:21 Exo31:18 Deut 4:13 Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19 or atonement seat. The law itself was never the issue, the law is perfect Psa19:7 holy, just and good Rom7:12 the issue is our sinful flesh that makes one not subject to the law of God Rom8:7-8. If we are under the ministry of the Spirit and are connected to Christ, there is no condemnation because we are keeping the commandments through our love, faith and the power of the Holy Spirit John14:15-18 Rom8:4 John15:10 its when we take our eyes off Jesus and start depending on self, we will fail every time.

Soyeong · Monday at 9:55 AM

SabbatarianSundayer said:
Gerald Weston says; "The biblical holy days".
Gerald Weston is a Sabbatarian; who presumes to deny Sunday, and yet later on; shows a verse in Lev 23.
While the biggest issue still; is on genuine vrs "counterfeit" bibles.
Gerald says; Millions read the Bible; but don't understand the big picture found in its pages. The reason; they disregard the days God commands. ...
If that means; Sabbath is the day we should worship on, and not Sunday; then what is his explanation on 2 Cor 3:7; as the 10 Cs is abolished and Sunday is logically implied?
Gerald quotes Matt 5:17; and wants us to think the we take our "Sabbath" orders from Jesus! We don't!
Does Matt 19:17; mean to keep the 10 Cs? Sabbath would need to be specified; and that wasn't.
Also because Paul is our final Sabbath commander; who said, Don't bother with Sabbath, or the 10 Cs.
Luke 6:46; is not a reason to keep Sabbath; as Jesus broke Sabbath.
As Gerald mentions about Jesus breaking Sabbath; or No!?
Gerald talks about law. Will there be any mention of Gal 6:2?So far; No!
1 John 2:3-4; does not mean; we need to keep Sabbath.
And still no mention of 2 Cor 3:7?

Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. Do you agree or disagree with Jesus?

SabbatarianSundayer · Monday at 10:34 AM

Soyeong said:
Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. Do you agree or disagree with Jesus?

A better question; more relating to my statement; ... Is Jesus, our Sabbath " commander; or is Paul?

SabbatarianSundayer · Monday at 10:36 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
2Cor3:7 is speaking of the ministration, the wages of sin is death Rom6:23 so quite plainly by this passage 2Cor3:7 we know breaking the Ten Commandments is sin. There is no death penalty for keeping the Ten Commandments, only for breaking them. Jesus now ministers from a heavenly Temple, where there is still the Ten Commandments under His mercy seat Exo25:21 Exo31:18 Deut 4:13 Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19 or atonement seat. The law itself was never the issue, the law is perfect Psa19:7 holy, just and good Rom7:12 the issue is our sinful flesh that makes one not subject to the law of God Rom8:7-8. If we are under the ministry of the Spirit and are connected to Christ, there is no condemnation because we are keeping the commandments through our love, faith and the power of the Holy Spirit John14:15-18 Rom8:4 John15:10 its when we take our eyes off Jesus and start depending on self, we will fail every time.

2 Cor 3: 7; the Ministration of death, means the 10 Cs are abolished. You are reaching for your "Sabbath" point.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 10:43 AM

SabbatarianSundayer said:
2 Cor 3: 7; the Ministration of death, means the 10 Cs are abolished. You are reaching for your "Sabbath" point.

No, you can't abolish only worshipping our Creator or stealing from our neighbor. The ministration changed, the law went from tablets of stone (Ten Commandments) to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 they become part of us who do not rebel Rom8:7-8 under the ministration of Christ who leads us to keep them, not break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19-30 John14:15-18

Soyeong · Monday at 11:27 AM

SabbatarianSundayer said:
A better question; more relating to my statement; ... Is Jesus, our Sabbath " commander; or is Paul?

God is our Sabbath commander. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, which Paul also taught based on the Law of God (Acts 14:21-22, 20:24-25, 28:23). Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of God and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul as he is of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). So both Jesus and Paul taught to keep the Law of God by word and by example, which includes the command to keep the Sabbath holy (Exodus 20:8-11).

In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying His law, so it is either incorrect to interpret Jesus and Paul as doing that or they were false prophets, but either way we should obey God's command to keep the Sabbath holy. If you consider Jesus and Paul to be servants of God, then you should be opposed to interpreting them as teaching against obeying what God has commanded, and if you think that they should be interpreted as teaching against obeying what God has commanded, then you should be opposed to considering them to be servants of God, but Deuteronomy 13 does not leave room for someone to consider them to be servants of God while also thinking that they should be interpreted as speaking against obeying what God has commanded.

SabbatarianSundayer · Monday at 3:31 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
No, you can't abolish only worshipping our Creator or stealing from our neighbor. The ministration changed, the law went from tablets of stone (Ten Commandments) to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 they become part of us who do not rebel Rom8:7-8 under the ministration of Christ who leads us to keep them, not break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19-30 John14:15-18

Then what does; "To be done away"; mean?

SabbatarianSundayer · Monday at 3:34 PM

Soyeong said:
God is our Sabbath commander. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, which Paul also taught based on the Law of God (Acts 14:21-22, 20:24-25, 28:23). Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of God and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul as he is of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). So both Jesus and Paul taught to keep the Law of God by word and by example, which includes the command to keep the Sabbath holy (Exodus 20:8-11).

In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying His law, so it is either incorrect to interpret Jesus and Paul as doing that or they were false prophets, but either way we should obey God's command to keep the Sabbath holy. If you consider Jesus and Paul to be servants of God, then you should be opposed to interpreting them as teaching against obeying what God has commanded, and if you think that they should be interpreted as teaching against obeying what God has commanded, then you should be opposed to considering them to be servants of God, but Deuteronomy 13 does not leave room for someone to consider them to be servants of God while also thinking that they should be interpreted as speaking against obeying what God has commanded.

God being our Sabbath commander; isn't answering the question ⁉️
Who has the final Sabbath command?
The final; 10 Cs description?
Jesus; or Paul?

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 3:41 PM

SabbatarianSundayer said:
Then what does; "To be done away"; mean?

It has to be read in context. You did’t quote 2Cor3:3 which already clearly shows where God’s laws went- tablets of stone Exo31:18 Deut 4:13 to tablets of the heart - which is the New Covenant- God’s laws written in the heart and mind of the New Covenant believers heart and mind Heb8:10 They are holy,, just and good. Rom7:12

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains ismuch more glorious.

Paul is quoting OT when Moses went up the mountain to get the Ten Commandments and the law of Moses after the children of Israel agreed to the terms Exo19:8 Moses had to put a veil on his face because being in the presence of God his face shown hence because of the glory of his countenance as he was leaving the glory faded, what this passage clearly says this glory was fading, because Moses who was the ministration of the law in the OT is now replaced with Jesus who is the Mediator of the New Covenant. How could Jesus not be more glorious than a human being. He is the only one whose blood can cleanse us of all sins and unrighteousness. 1John1:9 However its still a sin to break the law of God even in the NT 1John3:4 James2:11 Rom7:7 but instead of bringing an animal sacrifice to a Levite Priest, the blood from animals which could never take away sins, its the blood of Jesus Heb10:1-15 our High Priest in the NC. Jesus could not be more clear about not breaking the law of God Mat5:19-30 Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Mat19:17-19 Rev14:12 Rev12:17 Rev 22:14 etc.

SabbatarianSundayer · Monday at 3:48 PM

Amazingly your not answering the question ⁉️
You seem to be only "Sabbath" REACHING!
It seems to me; context of the chapter; doesn't matter. Context of the verse; does.
If the Ministration of death; was to be done away; means 10 Cs are abolished!
It's just that Adventists and "Sabbatarians"; don't like that.

SabbatarianSundayer · Monday at 3:48 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
It has to be read in context. You did’t quote 2Cor3:3 which already clearly shows where God’s laws went- tablets of stone Exo31:18 Deut 4:13 to tablets of the heart - which is the New Covenant- God’s laws written in the heart and mind of the New Covenant believers heart and mind Heb8:10 They are holy,, just and good. Rom7:12

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains ismuch more glorious.

Paul is quoting OT when Moses went up the mountain to get the Ten Commandments and the law of Moses after the children of Israel agreed to the terms Exo19:8 Moses had to put a veil on his face because being in the presence of God his face shown hence because of the glory of his countenance as he was leaving the glory faded, what this passage clearly says this glory was fading, because Moses who was the ministration of the law in the OT is now replaced with Jesus who is the Mediator of the New Covenant. How could Jesus not be more glorious than a human being. He is the only one whose blood can cleanse us of all sins and unrighteousness. 1John1:9 However its still a sin to break the law of God even in the NT 1John3:4 James2:11 Rom7:7 but instead of bringing an animal sacrifice to a Levite Priest, the blood from animals which could never take away sins, its the blood of Jesus Heb10:1-15 our High Priest in the NC. Jesus could not be more clear about not breaking the law of God Mat5:19-30 Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Mat19:17-19 Rev14:12 Rev12:17 Rev 22:14 etc.

Amazingly your not answering the question ⁉️
You seem to be only "Sabbath" REACHING!
It seems to me; context of the chapter; doesn't matter. Context of the verse; does.
If the Ministration of death; was to be done away; means 10 Cs are abolished!
It's just that Adventists and "Sabbatarians"; don't like that.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 3:52 PM

SabbatarianSundayer said:
Amazingly your not answering the question ⁉️
You seem to be only "Sabbath" REACHING!
It seems to me; context of the chapter; doesn't matter. Context of the verse; does.
If the Ministration of death; was to be done away; means 10 Cs are abolished!
It's just that Adventists and "Sabbatarians"; don't like that.

Paul never spoke over God, he never taught anyone to be a sinner Rom7:7 to dishonor God Rom2:21-23 and be an enemy to God Rom8:7-8 the Ten Commandments is God’s Testimony Exo31:18, under the mercy seat of Christ Exo25:21 in God’s heavenly Temple Rev 15:5 Rev11:19 sadly Paul is gravely misunderstood as we are warned 2Peter3:16, never came to undo God’s covenant that was ratified at the Cross by the blood of Jesus. If the Sabbath commandment goes then the other 9 commandments go, it was never the commandment of one. Deut4:13 Exo34:28 if you think worshipping other gods is the way to serve Him, or murdering our neighbor thats our free will. God will sort all things out in His time, it’s not something I would want to be wrong about though.

SabbatarianSundayer · Monday at 3:57 PM

if the Sabbath commandment goes than the other 9 commandments go,

That's the point of 2 Cor 3:7. Does that mean we can sin? No. Gal. 6:2.

SabbatarianSundayer · Monday at 3:58 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Paul never spoke over God, he never taught anyone to be a sinner Rom7:7 to dishonor God Rom2:21-23 and be an enemy to God Rom8:7-8 the Ten Commandments is God’s Testimony Exo31:18, under the mercy seat of Christ Exo25:21 in God’s heavenly Temple Rev 15:5 Rev11:19 sadly Paul is gravely misunderstood as we are warned 2Peter3:16, never came to undo God’s covenant that was ratified at the Cross by the blood of Jesus. If the Sabbath commandment goes then the other 9 commandments go, it was never the commandment of one. Deut4:13 Exo34:28 if you think worshipping other gods is the way to serve Him, or murdering our neighbor thats our free will. God will sort all things out in His time, it’s not something I would want to be wrong about though.

if the Sabbath commandment goes than the other 9 commandments go,

That's the point of 2 Cor 3:7. Does that mean we can sin? No. Gal. 6:2.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 3:59 PM

SabbatarianSundayer said:
if the Sabbath commandment goes than the other 9 commandments go,

That's the point of 2 Cor 3:7. Does that mean we can sin? No. Gal. 6:2.

This is nonsensical. Sin is breaking the Ten Commandments.1John3:4 James2:10-11 Mat5:19-30 Rom7:7 Why it’s under the mercy seat or atonement seat of Christ. Why its called the ministration of death because breaking them the punishment is death Rom6:23 unless we have Jesus and have not harden our heart to Him and His laws Rom8:7-8. We can keep them through Jesus John14:15-18. The only thing 2Cor3:7 says was passing is the glory of the countenance of Moses face and clearly says God’s laws went from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 the only law written by God on tablets is the Ten Commandments Deut4:13 Exo31:18. God makes no mistakes Psa 19:7 Rom 7:12 we do by not fully trusting Him. Forgetting something He asked us to keep/gaurd. I am OK agreeing to disagree, guess we shall see soon enough.

Soyeong · Monday at 4:30 PM

SabbatarianSundayer said:
God being our Sabbath commander; isn't answering the question ⁉️
Who has the final Sabbath command?
The final; 10 Cs description?
Jesus; or Paul?

Neither of them had the final Sabbath command and neither of them had the authority to countermand God.

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Gerald Weston says; "The biblical holy days". Gerald Weston is a Sabbatarian; who presumes to deny Sunday, and yet later on; shows a verse in Lev 23

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