Someone gets it.
Reading many of the comments here,
I cant help but wonder, has no one ever read the parable Christ gave about the Pharisee and the Publican?
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God requires sinless perfection to enter His kingdom
- Thread starter fli
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Reading many of the comments here,
I cant help but wonder, has no one ever read the parable Christ gave about the Pharisee and the Publican?
The only thing more astounding than the blindness of the Pharisees, was Christ's patience with them.
Hello Peter
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BelieveItOarKnot
Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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Indeed. The justified man admitted he was a sinner in need of God's Mercy as opposed to the lying pretender who claimed he was not like other men.
Couldn't be any clearer. Honesty is a premium.
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BelieveItOarKnot
Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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In response to the above when we understand that sin is of the devil then we have a proper division involved. It doesn't mean we have no sin BUT sins are not counted against people. Sins are counted against the devil and his messengers IN MAN
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David Lamb
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But Jesus wasn't saying that the man and his parents were sinlessly perfect. The context us that He was answering a question from the disciples:
“And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”” (Joh 9:2 NKJV)
They seemed to imagine that the blindness was the result of a sin or sins by the man or his parents. The answer Jesus gave refers back to that question:
“Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him.” (Joh 9:3 NKJV)
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I cannot say that I have ever had the absolute mindset of the Pharisee, as before I met Christ I was of an irreligious nature. I have however, been guilty of similar arrogance, pride, and even hypocrisy, and that after my regeneration.
In His mercy, He did not leave me in this darkened state of mind, but opened up the eyes of my heart and called me to repentance.
"To see ones own sins, and to weep over them, the man who has this blessing, has everything."
Author Unknown
"The steadfast love of Yahweh never ceases, His mercies shall never come to an end."
David
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peter2
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Hello BOK,
I don't know which denomination you'd claim to belong to. I suppose not the same as me, catholic.
What i 'd like to tell you is i think, as for the sinning's forgiving, my belief in RC confession is easier to bear than in any other denomination that wouldn't recognize this practise.
I don't tell you this so as to suggest you should make yourself catholic. No
My aim is to recognize my belief is an easy solution and i understand you might think it's not only easier, but also artificial. May be you're not. It's just what i incline to suppose.
But as for what you tell in the above quotation, sorry, but i also incline to think it's another easy solution. For me, indeed, sins remain counted both against the devil, his messengers but also against sinners
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fhansen
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And, with that humility, ‘if we confess our sins He'll purify us from all unrighteousness’, 1 John 1. It may be a struggle, and an ongoing one, but He didn't come and do all that He did just so we could remain in our sins, but to deliver us from them. Sin is death.
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BelieveItOarKnot
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Sins of devils transpire in everyone, except One
But sins are not counted against people in any case which makes formulas and incantations void anyway. There was no sin counting against the persons to begin with
That doesn't mean our bodies including our minds don't suffer the consequences, again regardless of ceremonies.
And in any case I'm not aware that any orthodox rituals are presented as making anyone sinless. If so that's just participation in a lie
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BelieveItOarKnot
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Pretty sure we've all been there and the majority still are, to varying degrees
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BelieveItOarKnot
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After our eyes are opened is when the real battles begin.
We can even think we are totally successful as far as sin in word and deed goes. But eventually some realize that there is a battle there within that can not be won.
That's when honesty comes in to the picture OR people simply get turned into lying hypocrites. It's pretty easy to discern someone who speaks honestly or who's a lying hypocrite.
And some might even see that the lying hypocrites isn't even the person, but our adversary who does such things in them and to them.
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fhansen
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Well, if the adversary has that much control then even the unlying non-hypocrite is probably fake. The question remains, why would we have any success at all just because our eyes are opened, since/if the adversary still has control?
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peter2
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Through this thread (thank you fli), i've been questionning myself the following way, that i propose to your appreciation :
Isn't there an invisible debate as whether RCC or conversely any other faithgroup is not in a situation of trying and monopolize the path towards salvation ?
As for RCC, i admit, people could be inclined to easily have such vision, for the various sacraments allow priests to intervene on every stage or on every step of believers progression. And i must say i'm myself honestly questionning without presuming if the idea could be true or false, respectively, and fully or not.
As for other groups of faith, i'm not sure it doesn't deserve the same self inquisition, though.
i suppose it's a proper questionning for reforming oneself, but that it might also bring some keys for avoiding mutual suspicion.
Through this other question, there might be some other kind of responses to the question of the thread
Isn't there an invisible debate as whether RCC or conversely any other faithgroup is not in a situation of trying and monopolize the path towards salvation ?
As for RCC, i admit, people could be inclined to easily have such vision, for the various sacraments allow priests to intervene on every stage or on every step of believers progression. And i must say i'm myself honestly questionning without presuming if the idea could be true or false, respectively, and fully or not.
As for other groups of faith, i'm not sure it doesn't deserve the same self inquisition, though.
i suppose it's a proper questionning for reforming oneself, but that it might also bring some keys for avoiding mutual suspicion.
Through this other question, there might be some other kind of responses to the question of the thread
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fhansen
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For myself it's just a matter of what God desires in order to see us as His children-and to remain in that state, that state of justice. The sacraments are simply vehicles towards that end, that have served well because by them the simplest and most illiterate folk down through the centuries could understand and live out the basics of the faith. Don't have to be a theologian or bible scholar, IOW.
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peter2
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Thank you for your answer, fhansen
i hope you didn't feel in duty to kind of justifying yourself or the catholic practices
yes it's this simplicity of the incarnation, with its sensorial path that attracted myself also in catholicism. It reminds me of when Jesus ask for little children to be allowed to approach him (Lk 18 15-16).
However, is the RCC free of any will of monopolizing. Indeed, i learnt "catholic" means "universal", and i think most catholic people think of this word as an open door with an open mind, but wouldn't the Church be considering hers the salvation which the Scripture mentions in act 4 12 :
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fhansen
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At one time there was one church for all practical purposes comprised of the eastern and western (Catholic) churches-and that's where and how people heard the Good News and within which they lived it out. It was all a universal, catholic, church. My love for the church is in the teachings-the "deposit of faith" that it received and has preserved and spread, so I don't apologize for defending those truths as I believe they reflect the fullest and most correct understanding. Meanwhile, non-Catholic churches often contend with each other over important matters of the faith.
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