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CNN’s Harry Enten Says Trump’s Approval Rating On Immigration Has Surged ‘Like A Rocket’

rjs330

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That's a bit of a dilemma when going after illegal immigrants. If you do it legally, it takes too much time to deport people, and it doesn't have much of an impact. If you want to make an impact, you have to break or change the law, and the law is going to be tough to change. I have no problem with going after illegal immigrants, but I do have a problem with suspending due process. I would rather put up with having some illegal aliens running around than denying their legal rights.

I definitely believe that due process must be followed. Unfortunately that hasn't happened in all cases. However I believe people have over inflated rhe issue and that due process HAS been followed in the vast majority of cases. Due process is different in illegal immigration law than it is for standard criminal law. And there are a lot of complaints and whining over procedures rather than actual due process.
 
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The Barbarian

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That's a bit of a dilemma when going after illegal immigrants. If you do it legally, it takes too much time to deport people, and it doesn't have much of an impact. If you want to make an impact, you have to break or change the law, and the law is going to be tough to change. I have no problem with going after illegal immigrants, but I do have a problem with suspending due process. I would rather put up with having some illegal aliens running around than denying their legal rights.
Obama had immigration enforcement focused on illegal immigrants who had committed serious crimes, and required due process to be followed to protect the innocent. Biden kept that focus. It's harder to do than grabbing roofing workers and fast food employees while ignoring the law, but it has the benefit of actually making Americans safer.
 
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rjs330

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Obama had immigration enforcement focused on illegal immigrants who had committed serious crimes, and required due process to be followed to protect the innocent. Biden kept that focus. It's harder to do than grabbing roofing workers and fast food employees while ignoring the law, but it has the benefit of actually making Americans safer.

We certainly need all the serious offenders out. We also need all the illegals out of other reasons beside just safer Americans. Immigration law is NOT just about safety you know. There are a number of reasons why we need borders and immigration laws.

Should we stop everyone at the border and determine if they are a criminal or not? If they arw a serious offenders qe should deport them and them let everyone else in?
 
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The Barbarian

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We certainly need all the serious offenders out. We also need all the illegals out of other reasons beside just safer Americans. Immigration law is NOT just about safety you know.
Of course not. For two reasons.
First, even if a law is stupid and destructive to the U.S., you can't just ignore it. We need to fix it.
Second, it involves the U.S. economy and national security.
Sending all the illegally-resident workers home would cause a recession.
And not tracking who comes in, means that bad guys can get in along with all the workers who are building our economy.
Obama's and Biden's policies targeting dangerous immigrants have been scrapped to just get numbers regardless of the damage it does.

Trump's policies are more than just making it more dangerous for Americans; if it works, he'll damage the economy even more.
 
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The Barbarian

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Should we stop everyone at the border and determine if they are a criminal or not?
We should also check on those here, to see if they've commited serious crimes here. Texas data show that illegal immigrants tend to be more law-abiding than American citizens, but we should monitor the situation.
 
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rjs330

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First, even if a law is stupid and destructive to the U.S., you can't just ignore it. We need to fix it.

The law isn't stupid. It juat needs to be made better. It should be a piece of cake to deport anyone here illegally. It should be a piece of cake to deport ANYONE here on a visa or green card. If you come here on a visa you serve at our pleasure and if we dont like the way you smear your mustache you are out. You have no RIGHT to be here. You are a guest and at any time we should be able to revoke our invitation for any R reason.

That being said, we should make it easier for businesses to sponsor workers temporarily. If they need workers they should be able to get some. The businesses should have to offer jobs to Americans first and show the wage. If they can't get Americans then they can hire temporary immigrants at the same wage they were offering Americans.
 
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rjs330

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We should also check on those here, to see if they've commited serious crimes here. Texas data show that illegal immigrants tend to be more law-abiding than American citizens, but we should monitor the situation.

If they are a serious offenders we should deport them and them let everyone else in?
 
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The Barbarian

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The law isn't stupid.
It's self-destructive. If it was strictly enforced, we'd have recessions, a Social Security crisis, and a decline in GDP.
That qualifies as stupid.

That being said, we should make it easier for businesses to sponsor workers temporarily.
Tried that in the 60s. It didn't work.

In the 1960s, I was working on track gangs in the summer to pay for college. Those railroad projects were mostly manned by Mexican workers, many of them here illegally. Most of them were fine people, who were willing to do hard work in unpleasant conditions for a decent wage and a little respect. The roadmaster was happy to have them. As the article says, it was hard to find Americans willing to do the kind of work required to repair track.

Agricultural work is similar. Alabama did a crackdown on illegal workers a while back. It was a disaster for farmers:
If they are a serious offenders we should deport them and them let everyone else in?
We should put most of our effort in removing criminals. Trump abandoned that goal, because it's easier to run up big numbers deporting otherwise law-abiding workers who are here illegally. But America is less safe and less prosperous thereby.

How much do immigrants contribute to the economy?

For the United States as a whole, immigrants’ share of total output was 18.0% in 2023 (see Table 1) or $2.1 trillion in 2024 dollars. This means that the contribution of immigrants to economic output is larger than their share of the total population, as immigrants made up 14.3% of the total U.S. population in the same year.

How can this be? Well, for one thing, almost all of them are working-age people who came here to find jobs. So not surprising that they have a disproportionately high contribution to our economy. And they turn out to be more law-abiding then American citizens, according to Texas, which is one of the few states that keep such data.

Undocumented Immigrant Offending Rate
Lower Than U.S.-Born Citizen Rate
Analysis of Texas arrest records indicates a consistent trend across violent, drug,
property, and traffic offenses between 2012 and 2018


Here's another report:
 
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The Barbarian

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It's more than just a few but I agree. When we allow the violation of one group's rights, you invite violations of the rights of many more groups to come. At some point, these federal agencies will have to turn their attention to others to continue justifying their now way overinflated budgets.
Already happening. American citizens, such as native Americans, have been illegally grabbed for no other reason than failing the ICE color chart test.

Supreme Court said ICE can stop you based on race, accent, job and location. What we know.

The limited-scope decision came down in an unsigned, emergency action. A group of Latino California residents had sued the government, saying they were being subject to illegal stops.

 
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BCP1928

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We certainly need all the serious offenders out. We also need all the illegals out of other reasons beside just safer Americans. Immigration law is NOT just about safety you know. There are a number of reasons why we need borders and immigration laws.
Of course it's about logistics, too, the number of immigrants the economy can absorb.
Should we stop everyone at the border and determine if they are a criminal or not? If they arw a serious offenders qe should deport them and them let everyone else in?
We should certainly stop as many as we can, and the left has never said otherwise. But there is a serious policy conflict. The Right wants to reject those who qualify for asylum or other legal status while leaving alone those who are being exploited by corporate employers, The left has no objection to asylum (and wants to let in too many for humanitarian reasons) and would even allow illegal corporate employees to remain if given some legal status that prevents their exploitation.
 
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Say it aint so

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Already happening. American citizens, such as native Americans, have been illegally grabbed for no other reason than failing the ICE color chart test.

Supreme Court said ICE can stop you based on race, accent, job and location. What we know.

The limited-scope decision came down in an unsigned, emergency action. A group of Latino California residents had sued the government, saying they were being subject to illegal stops.

Not only that. It's happening to US citizens who are thrown in detention centers for days if not weeks; despite their American citizenship.
Their pleas and claims are ignored till some family members has a judge make them release them.
 
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The Barbarian

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Not only that. It's happening to US citizens who are thrown in detention centers for days if not weeks; despite their American citizenship.
Their pleas and claims are ignored till some family members has a judge make them release them.
The idea is that certain groups of citizens don't have the same rights as "legacy Americans." I expect at some point Stephen Miller will get Trump to declare them to be "subjects."
 
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essentialsaltes

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1768832235249.png
 
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The Barbarian

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Why do we still believe polls?
Because they are generally accurate indicators of people's opinions. The last 18 elections, the final polls were right 16 times. Exceptions were in 2016 and 2020. In 2000, the polls correctly predicted Gore the winner of the popular vote, but Bush won the electoral college.

So not surprising that campaigns spend all that money on polling.
 
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Say it aint so

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Why do we still believe polls? Haven't these things tugged our chains long enough? Harris in the lead scared me a bit.
You are correct. Polls that require an action such as getting out and voting or mailing that ballot in time is one thing. However just a straight opinion poll of what one believes with that action is different.
 
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essentialsaltes

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She wrote, "Polling suggests that a small but important number of Trump voters are trying to pull an Irish exit, abandoning the coalition quietly rather than continuing the miserable task of pretending what he’s doing is okay."

"A lot of his voters have always found it easier to paint him as a necessary evil to put down the fictional 'woke mob' than attempt to pretend, at least to those outside their tribe, that the man has any redeeming qualities."

"There’s no telling if [demonizing the left] will work this time, but there is reason to hope it won’t. [Renee] Good’s killing is already taxing the ability of Republican voters to pretend they’re good people while they support the administration’s actions. That Trump started the chaos in Minneapolis is also indisputable."
 
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The Barbarian

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The Epstein issue was probably the opening crack. But as Trump gets increasingly weird in his behavior, more people are walking away. Will they stay away? Impossible to say now.
 
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The Barbarian

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We certainly need all the serious offenders out. We also need all the illegals out of other reasons beside just safer Americans. Immigration law is NOT just about safety you know. There are a number of reasons why we need borders and immigration laws.
Until the early 1900s, we had open borders. There was a good reason for it. We needed workers. Now, we see more immigrants coming in, as happened before the 1900s. For the same reason. Our demographics show a need for working-age immigrants. The economy noticed before politicians did. That's a symptom of market economies.
Should we stop everyone at the border and determine if they are a criminal or not?
Sounds resonable.
If they arw a serious offenders qe should deport them and them let everyone else in?
It actually worked back when we needed workers. It's working now. Other nations like Japan, Russia, and China are in serious trouble because they are seeing the same aging America is seeing, but they either restrict immigration, or no one wants to immigrate there.
 
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