Chronology rules out Sunday as the Mark of the Beast.

Tigger Boy · Jan 4, 2026

As Adventist, we were taught that the first beast of Rev. 13, is the Papacy, and the second beast from the earth is the US. This I assume you believe, which I believe to be incorrect based on a valid interpretation of apocalyptic prophecy.

Our early founding fathers believing in the return of Christ in 1844, believed that all of Revelations prophecies had to be fulfilled. We as Adventist have owned up to the fact that our founding fathers were wrong in believing the return of Christ in 1844, but are reluctant to reconsider other prophetic interpretations that were excepted based on the same bias.

One hundred and eighty two years have passed since the great disappointment, did that mark the end of any progressive truth from on high, or are we to believe that God will reveal more light as needed as we draw nearer to closing events. I believe in the latter, since creation God has continued to reveal more of Himself according to His timing and will continue to do so throughout eternity.

Since our earlier interpretation of Revelation was excepted, God has revealed greater light as to the laws of interpretation He built into apocalyptic prophecy and has made these know to those who have ears to hear, and likely to experience their actual fulfillment, for their salvation will depend on weather they except or reject the “Mark of the Beast”. Therefore, it is most important that we understand Revelation correctly, in which valid laws of interpretation are essential.

Please consider the following laws;

Rule one: Each prophecy has a beginning point and an ending point in time, and the events within each prophecy occur in the order in which they are given. This chronological behavior may sound simple, but it has profound ramifications. Consider the results of violating this behavior. If the events given within a particular prophecy do not occur in the order given, who has the authority to declare the order of events? Does anyone other than God have the authority to change the order that He created? When the fulfilled elements in Daniel and Revelation are aligned with widely published historical records, the validity of Rule One proves true every time! The prophecies in Daniel began unfolding more than 2,600 years ago. Some of the prophecies in Revelation began unfolding 2,000 years ago. These lengthy periods of time contain a sufficient sample to validate the four rules that spring from Daniel’s architecture.

Rule Two: A prophecy or prophetic element within a prophecy is not fulfilled until all of the specifications are met. This includes the order of the events given within the prophecy. (Fulfillment)

Rule Three: Apocalyptic language can be literal, symbolic, or analogous. To reach the intended meaning of a passage, the student must consider (a) the context, (b) the use of parallel language in the Bible, and (c) a relevant text that defines the symbol if an element is thought to be symbolic. (Language types)

Rule Four: The presence or absence of the Jubilee Calendar determines how God measures time. If a prophetic time period occurs during the operation of the Jubilee Calendar (1437 B.C. - 1994), time is translated as a day for a year; otherwise, translation is not permitted. (Timing)

The main pillar which our early church fathers believed in support of the “ Mark of the Beast” being Sunday worship was that the first beast of Rev. 13 was the papacy. Using what I and others consider to be valid laws of interpretation which God has since revealed, I will explain why I think that interpretation is incorrect.

First let me show you that we as Adventist do not understand rule one, that chronology within apocalyptic prophecy “is a law, thus it has no exceptions.” The following quote is taken from our SDA Bible Commentaries, vol., 7, pg. 787. Pertaining to Rev. 8: 3-5. “According to the view that Seventh-day Adventists have favored, the cessation of the angel’s ministry at the altar of incense is symbolic of the end of the ministration of Christ for mankind, the close of probation. The voices, thunderings, lighting, and earthquake that ensue when the angel cast the censer into to the earth describe events to take place at the end of the seventh trumpet…”

Please bear with me for it is critical that we understand what will happen when this prophecy is fulfilled in the future. The services conducted daily at the alter of incense in the earthly tabernacle pointed back in time when Jesus stepped between His Fathers wrath to destroy Adam and Eve the very day they ate of the forbidden fruit. (Gen. 2: 16, 17) On that day Jesus agreed to the Father’s plan of salvation, which if He, Jesus were to fulfill all that the Father required of Him, Jesus could save Adam and Eve and their offspring from eternal death. Since that day Jesus has been standing between the Fathers wrath and sinful mankind, corporate atonement, for our fallen world . Likewise (Jh. 3:16) is a corporate reference of God’s love for mankind. While corporate atonement is ongoing we as individuals have our life span to choose to either worship God or not. However, (Rev. 8:2-5) informs us that when the service at the altar of incense in heave ceases then the Fathers wrath will be poured out upon the earth. The Good news is probation does not close for individuals. Just as it was in the time of the earthly sanctuary, as the final day of probation was drawing to a close for Israel each year on the Day of Atonement, trumpets sounded morning and evening throughout the camp to warn the living that now was the final moments to get right with God, least they be cut off from the camp.

Therefore, when the chronology of Rev. 8 is correctly understood as it is given, and is being fulfilled in the future, corporate atonement ends, before the trumpets sound, and the Fathers wrath will follow immediately with the seven trumpet judgements, a time when the living will be judged, will they choose the salvation of Jesus or not, for by the end of the seventh trumpet probation closes.

But how will people know when this corporate atonement ends? Because God being merciful, has linked heavenly events with earthly events so that students of prophecy can understand what is taking place in heaven should they witness the earthly events linked to them. When the censor is case down to the earth, prophecy reveals there will be a chronological order of world wide events, as all must be informed. There will be literal voices, thunderings, lightning, and an earthquake. Has these literal world wide events been recorded to date in historical journals. No! Therefore, corporate probation has not ended, nor has the trumpet judgements begun, as our founding fathers believed.

However, the Millerites believed that the trumpets of Rev, 8 and 9, must be fulfilled before 1844, researched historical records to find events that seemed like logical fulfillments. These fulfillments we hold to this day. They believed that the first trumpet sounded between 395-419 A.D. and the seventh opened in 1844. Does this interpretation harmonize with the earthly sanctuary model, in which the trumpets sounded nine days prior to the day of atonement, the close of probation? No. Have billions of people since the sounding of the first trumpet in 395 A.D. been made aware that salvation was soon to close? No. So what purpose has the trumpets served based on the Millerites interpretation????

Now consider the effects the trumpets judgements will have when they sound in their proper chronological order within Revelations story, during the final days of probation. First trumpet: meteorite shower that burns up a third of the earth. Second trumpet judgement: asteroid impacts an ocean, one third of the sea life is destroyed and a third of the ships. Third trumpet judgement: another asteroid hits a continent, which will cause earth’s titanic plates to shift, causing earthquakes around the world and spilling toxic waste buried deep within the earth, leaching into aqua steams and poisoning one third of our drinking water. Thus millions will die drinking polluted water. Fourth trumpet: mega tons of ash and soot from the previous three trumpets will be swept up into our jet streams which circle the earth and prevent one third of the sun and stars from giving forth their light. Crops will fail to mature and world wide famine will occur.

These trumpet judgments are designed by God to bring the fear of an Almighty God to the minds of every living individual, because He wants them to know that the end of life as we have experienced it is over, therefore, choose to worship Him or suffer the seven last plagues poured out without mercy, and eternal death.

Satan clearly understands prophecy, thus understands that God will release him and his angels during the fifth trumpet and allow him to kill a third of mankind during the sixth. Of course since these prophecies were given to John , Satan has been misleading millions into invalid interpretations to cover up his appearance. We as Adventists believe that Satan and his angles will appear on earth in the end, but have no prophecy indicating when, nor his plans. Would it not be out of character for God to reveal the greatest deception of all time, Satan masquerading as God and demanding worship or death? For certain God has, but Satan has convinced millions it is the pope who is the Antichrist, the man of sin.

The first beast of Rev. 13, comes along in Revelations story after corporate atonement ends in Rev. 8:2-5, and the first four trumpet judgements has put the earth in survival mode. The first of the three angles messages will be proclaimed during this time in fulfillment of prophecy. It states: “Fear God [literally] and give Him glory, for the hour [time] of His judgment [of the living] has come.” Certainly under these world wide conditions the first angels message will make more sense and have a greater impact on mankind then previously understood by our church in it’s early years.

Satan who has been standing on the shore of the sea [multitutes and nations] will witness the world reeling from the first four trumpet judgements, and seize the opportunity to raise up the sea beast of Rev. 13. It will consist of seventeen players. Seven heads, the seven major religions of the world. The one head/religion whose fatal wound is healed “before” this composite beast appears. The ten horns are ten kings, or world leaders. They were first mentioned in (Dan. 2:42-44) and would rule at the time of Christ coming. John describes the beast as looking like a leopard, bear, and lion, symbolizing this beast would be multinational, from former kingdoms. And that the dragon/satan will give it his power and great authority for forty two literal months as his puppet government of church and state.

To determine the timing when this beast appears one must factor in all the details given and omit nothing. This is not difficult to determine but rather difficult to accept. The sea beast appears after the head with the fatal wound has been [past tense] healed. That head or religion is the papacy and the wound was inflicted in 1798 after ruling over Europe for 1260 years during the dark ages, according to (Dan. 7:24,25) Too, after it appears in the future after the four trumpets have destroyed a third of the earth, it is then given forty two months to rule. According to the fourth rule given above, these forty two months are literal, since the prophecy will be fulfilled after the expiration of the Jubilee calendar in 1994.

At the sounding of the fifth trumpet God releases satan and his angels out of the spirit realm to appear on earth. And in Rev. 13:11-18, the timing is after the sea beast appears, Lucifer will put on a glorious show to deceive most of the world into believing that he is Almighty God, even calling fire down from heaven. During this time, Jesus will allow Lucifer and his demons to torture non-religious people for five literal months. This torture will cause some people to embrace the gospel of Jesus.

During the sixth trumpet, having convinced millions he is Christ, satan orders earth’s inhabitants to set up an image to the first beast. This image will be a one world church/state. Since he the Christ and now upon the earth, there can only be one religion and one God, who will rule over the earth as king of kings and lord of lords. His forces will kill a third of the remaining people on earth who oppose him by implementing his mark, “the mark of the beast.” God will allow this because if forces more of the living to choose whom they shall worship, Satan of Christ. At the time when this mark is being implemented survival on earth is dire being into the trumpet judgments now for over two years, food will be rationed and now the only ones who will be able buy or sell will be those receiving satan’s mark 666 on their right hand or in their foreheads if they are satan’s leaders, the rest will be killed. At the same time the third angles message will go out warning people, “ If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they too, will drink the wine of god’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.” The seventh trumpet brings the end of probation and is followed by the seven last plagues, effecting those who received satan’s mark.

It is my prayer that you will give considerable thought to what I have posted here and the fact that chronology has been followed to determine the timing of the various events that God has predetermine must take place in order that the everlasting gospel goes out into all the world, before probation comes to its close, and that nobody will be unaware.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 9, 2026

Tigger Boy said:
As Adventist, we were taught that the first beast of Rev. 13, is the Papacy, and the second beast from the earth is the US. This I assume you believe, which I believe to be incorrect based on a valid interpretation of apocalyptic prophecy.

Our early founding fathers believing in the return of Christ in 1844, believed that all of Revelations prophecies had to be fulfilled. We as Adventist have owned up to the fact that our founding fathers were wrong in believing the return of Christ in 1844, but are reluctant to reconsider other prophetic interpretations that were excepted based on the same bias.

One hundred and eighty two years have passed since the great disappointment, did that mark the end of any progressive truth from on high, or are we to believe that God will reveal more light as needed as we draw nearer to closing events. I believe in the latter, since creation God has continued to reveal more of Himself according to His timing and will continue to do so throughout eternity.

Since our earlier interpretation of Revelation was excepted, God has revealed greater light as to the laws of interpretation He built into apocalyptic prophecy and has made these know to those who have ears to hear, and likely to experience their actual fulfillment, for their salvation will depend on weather they except or reject the “Mark of the Beast”. Therefore, it is most important that we understand Revelation correctly, in which valid laws of interpretation are essential.

Please consider the following laws;

Rule one: Each prophecy has a beginning point and an ending point in time, and the events within each prophecy occur in the order in which they are given. This chronological behavior may sound simple, but it has profound ramifications. Consider the results of violating this behavior. If the events given within a particular prophecy do not occur in the order given, who has the authority to declare the order of events? Does anyone other than God have the authority to change the order that He created? When the fulfilled elements in Daniel and Revelation are aligned with widely published historical records, the validity of Rule One proves true every time! The prophecies in Daniel began unfolding more than 2,600 years ago. Some of the prophecies in Revelation began unfolding 2,000 years ago. These lengthy periods of time contain a sufficient sample to validate the four rules that spring from Daniel’s architecture.

Rule Two: A prophecy or prophetic element within a prophecy is not fulfilled until all of the specifications are met. This includes the order of the events given within the prophecy. (Fulfillment)

Rule Three: Apocalyptic language can be literal, symbolic, or analogous. To reach the intended meaning of a passage, the student must consider (a) the context, (b) the use of parallel language in the Bible, and (c) a relevant text that defines the symbol if an element is thought to be symbolic. (Language types)

Rule Four: The presence or absence of the Jubilee Calendar determines how God measures time. If a prophetic time period occurs during the operation of the Jubilee Calendar (1437 B.C. - 1994), time is translated as a day for a year; otherwise, translation is not permitted. (Timing)

The main pillar which our early church fathers believed in support of the “ Mark of the Beast” being Sunday worship was that the first beast of Rev. 13 was the papacy. Using what I and others consider to be valid laws of interpretation which God has since revealed, I will explain why I think that interpretation is incorrect.

First let me show you that we as Adventist do not understand rule one, that chronology within apocalyptic prophecy “is a law, thus it has no exceptions.” The following quote is taken from our SDA Bible Commentaries, vol., 7, pg. 787. Pertaining to Rev. 8: 3-5. “According to the view that Seventh-day Adventists have favored, the cessation of the angel’s ministry at the altar of incense is symbolic of the end of the ministration of Christ for mankind, the close of probation. The voices, thunderings, lighting, and earthquake that ensue when the angel cast the censer into to the earth describe events to take place at the end of the seventh trumpet…”

Please bear with me for it is critical that we understand what will happen when this prophecy is fulfilled in the future. The services conducted daily at the alter of incense in the earthly tabernacle pointed back in time when Jesus stepped between His Fathers wrath to destroy Adam and Eve the very day they ate of the forbidden fruit. (Gen. 2: 16, 17) On that day Jesus agreed to the Father’s plan of salvation, which if He, Jesus were to fulfill all that the Father required of Him, Jesus could save Adam and Eve and their offspring from eternal death. Since that day Jesus has been standing between the Fathers wrath and sinful mankind, corporate atonement, for our fallen world . Likewise (Jh. 3:16) is a corporate reference of God’s love for mankind. While corporate atonement is ongoing we as individuals have our life span to choose to either worship God or not. However, (Rev. 8:2-5) informs us that when the service at the altar of incense in heave ceases then the Fathers wrath will be poured out upon the earth. The Good news is probation does not close for individuals. Just as it was in the time of the earthly sanctuary, as the final day of probation was drawing to a close for Israel each year on the Day of Atonement, trumpets sounded morning and evening throughout the camp to warn the living that now was the final moments to get right with God, least they be cut off from the camp.

Therefore, when the chronology of Rev. 8 is correctly understood as it is given, and is being fulfilled in the future, corporate atonement ends, before the trumpets sound, and the Fathers wrath will follow immediately with the seven trumpet judgements, a time when the living will be judged, will they choose the salvation of Jesus or not, for by the end of the seventh trumpet probation closes.

But how will people know when this corporate atonement ends? Because God being merciful, has linked heavenly events with earthly events so that students of prophecy can understand what is taking place in heaven should they witness the earthly events linked to them. When the censor is case down to the earth, prophecy reveals there will be a chronological order of world wide events, as all must be informed. There will be literal voices, thunderings, lightning, and an earthquake. Has these literal world wide events been recorded to date in historical journals. No! Therefore, corporate probation has not ended, nor has the trumpet judgements begun, as our founding fathers believed.

However, the Millerites believed that the trumpets of Rev, 8 and 9, must be fulfilled before 1844, researched historical records to find events that seemed like logical fulfillments. These fulfillments we hold to this day. They believed that the first trumpet sounded between 395-419 A.D. and the seventh opened in 1844. Does this interpretation harmonize with the earthly sanctuary model, in which the trumpets sounded nine days prior to the day of atonement, the close of probation? No. Have billions of people since the sounding of the first trumpet in 395 A.D. been made aware that salvation was soon to close? No. So what purpose has the trumpets served based on the Millerites interpretation????

Now consider the effects the trumpets judgements will have when they sound in their proper chronological order within Revelations story, during the final days of probation. First trumpet: meteorite shower that burns up a third of the earth. Second trumpet judgement: asteroid impacts an ocean, one third of the sea life is destroyed and a third of the ships. Third trumpet judgement: another asteroid hits a continent, which will cause earth’s titanic plates to shift, causing earthquakes around the world and spilling toxic waste buried deep within the earth, leaching into aqua steams and poisoning one third of our drinking water. Thus millions will die drinking polluted water. Fourth trumpet: mega tons of ash and soot from the previous three trumpets will be swept up into our jet streams which circle the earth and prevent one third of the sun and stars from giving forth their light. Crops will fail to mature and world wide famine will occur.

These trumpet judgments are designed by God to bring the fear of an Almighty God to the minds of every living individual, because He wants them to know that the end of life as we have experienced it is over, therefore, choose to worship Him or suffer the seven last plagues poured out without mercy, and eternal death.

Satan clearly understands prophecy, thus understands that God will release him and his angels during the fifth trumpet and allow him to kill a third of mankind during the sixth. Of course since these prophecies were given to John , Satan has been misleading millions into invalid interpretations to cover up his appearance. We as Adventists believe that Satan and his angles will appear on earth in the end, but have no prophecy indicating when, nor his plans. Would it not be out of character for God to reveal the greatest deception of all time, Satan masquerading as God and demanding worship or death? For certain God has, but Satan has convinced millions it is the pope who is the Antichrist, the man of sin.

The first beast of Rev. 13, comes along in Revelations story after corporate atonement ends in Rev. 8:2-5, and the first four trumpet judgements has put the earth in survival mode. The first of the three angles messages will be proclaimed during this time in fulfillment of prophecy. It states: “Fear God [literally] and give Him glory, for the hour [time] of His judgment [of the living] has come.” Certainly under these world wide conditions the first angels message will make more sense and have a greater impact on mankind then previously understood by our church in it’s early years.

Satan who has been standing on the shore of the sea [multitutes and nations] will witness the world reeling from the first four trumpet judgements, and seize the opportunity to raise up the sea beast of Rev. 13. It will consist of seventeen players. Seven heads, the seven major religions of the world. The one head/religion whose fatal wound is healed “before” this composite beast appears. The ten horns are ten kings, or world leaders. They were first mentioned in (Dan. 2:42-44) and would rule at the time of Christ coming. John describes the beast as looking like a leopard, bear, and lion, symbolizing this beast would be multinational, from former kingdoms. And that the dragon/satan will give it his power and great authority for forty two literal months as his puppet government of church and state.

To determine the timing when this beast appears one must factor in all the details given and omit nothing. This is not difficult to determine but rather difficult to accept. The sea beast appears after the head with the fatal wound has been [past tense] healed. That head or religion is the papacy and the wound was inflicted in 1798 after ruling over Europe for 1260 years during the dark ages, according to (Dan. 7:24,25) Too, after it appears in the future after the four trumpets have destroyed a third of the earth, it is then given forty two months to rule. According to the fourth rule given above, these forty two months are literal, since the prophecy will be fulfilled after the expiration of the Jubilee calendar in 1994.

At the sounding of the fifth trumpet God releases satan and his angels out of the spirit realm to appear on earth. And in Rev. 13:11-18, the timing is after the sea beast appears, Lucifer will put on a glorious show to deceive most of the world into believing that he is Almighty God, even calling fire down from heaven. During this time, Jesus will allow Lucifer and his demons to torture non-religious people for five literal months. This torture will cause some people to embrace the gospel of Jesus.

During the sixth trumpet, having convinced millions he is Christ, satan orders earth’s inhabitants to set up an image to the first beast. This image will be a one world church/state. Since he the Christ and now upon the earth, there can only be one religion and one God, who will rule over the earth as king of kings and lord of lords. His forces will kill a third of the remaining people on earth who oppose him by implementing his mark, “the mark of the beast.” God will allow this because if forces more of the living to choose whom they shall worship, Satan of Christ. At the time when this mark is being implemented survival on earth is dire being into the trumpet judgments now for over two years, food will be rationed and now the only ones who will be able buy or sell will be those receiving satan’s mark 666 on their right hand or in their foreheads if they are satan’s leaders, the rest will be killed. At the same time the third angles message will go out warning people, “ If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they too, will drink the wine of god’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.” The seventh trumpet brings the end of probation and is followed by the seven last plagues, effecting those who received satan’s mark.

It is my prayer that you will give considerable thought to what I have posted here and the fact that chronology has been followed to determine the timing of the various events that God has predetermine must take place in order that the everlasting gospel goes out into all the world, before probation comes to its close, and that nobody will be unaware.

Revelation is not written in chronological order, it is written in repeat and enlarge. Trying to make it in chronological order one will come to wrong conclusions.

This is essentially what you are saying

Satan is released from the spirit realm during the fifth trumpet
Satan appears on earth
Satan masquerades as Christ
Satan rules the world
Satan demands worship
Satan controls buying and selling
Satan orders the killing of dissenters
Satan personally enforces the mark of the beast

BUT

Scripture says …. Satan works through the 4th beast little horn. Scripture does not say Satan becomes the 4th beast it says he gives him his power.

Rev 13:2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

2 Thess 2:14 He sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God

This is a man who tries to takes the place of God- meaning he has great religious power that the dragon gave him and he speaks for God when he ought not to. He thinks he takes the place of God on earth, when Jesus has all Authority Mat28:18

Satan does impersonate Christ but he also acts through the power of the little horn. Only one kingdom/power checks off all these boxes and it has to be the one who changed God’s times and laws Dan7:25 that the dragon worked through this power to do so. Only the beast can tell us what their mark is and they already have that is in direct contrast to God’s seal.

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
—Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
—C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath, November 11, 1895.

God said

Eze 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

It all fits together perfectly, everything we are told about the beast system in Daniel and Revelation line up perfectly and no other government has this political and religious reach and fits the timeline and what is outlined in Daniel/Revelation. They admit to changing God’s times and laws and they tell us plainly this change is a mark of their authority, over God’s and it is in direct contradiction to what God said. It’s a matter of whose authority will one listen to, which is what worship is all about, whoever we obey. Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14 Rom6:16 Rev 14:11-12. It’s less about the day and more about the voice one is subjecting themselves to.

So I am going to respectfully agree to disagree.

Freth · Jan 9, 2026

Tigger Boy said:
To determine the timing when this beast appears one must factor in all the details given and omit nothing. This is not difficult to determine but rather difficult to accept. The sea beast appears after the head with the fatal wound has been [past tense] healed. That head or religion is the papacy and the wound was inflicted in 1798 after ruling over Europe for 1260 years during the dark ages, according to (Dan. 7:24,25) Too, after it appears in the future after the four trumpets have destroyed a third of the earth, it is then given forty two months to rule. According to the fourth rule given above, these forty two months are literal, since the prophecy will be fulfilled after the expiration of the Jubilee calendar in 1994.

The Time Prophecy

Daniel and Revelation describe the same symbols, the same actions, and the same prophecy.

Daniel 7 pointing forward. ↓
- Lion (Babylon).
  - Bear (Medo-Persia).
    - Leopard (Grecia).
      - Dreadful/terrible (Rome) -> Ten horns (divided Rome) -> Little horn (plucks three horns).
      - ↕-------↕
      - 7 heads and ten horns.
    - Like a leopard (the body).
  - Feet of a bear.
- Mouth of a lion.
Revelation 13 pointing back. ↑

Daniel 7 pointing forward. ↓
- A mouth speaking great things against the most High.
- Wears out the saints of the most High.
- Thinks to change times and laws.
- They shall be given into his hand until a time, times and the dividing of time (1260 years).
Revelation 13 pointing back. ↑
- He was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies. He opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven.
- Power was given to him to continue 42 months (1260 years). It was given him to make war with the saints and overcome them. Power was given him over all kindreds, tongues and nations.

Also of note are other mentions of the same time prophecy which concern that same period of Christian persecution fulfilled between 538 AD to 1798 AD.

The two witnesses (Old Testament and New Testament) prophesying 1260 years in sackcloth. See Revelation 11:2-3.
The woman (church) fled into the wilderness to escape persecution, to a place God prepared, for 1260 years. Also notice the earth (unpopulated area) helped the woman to escape persecution. See Revelation 12:5-6, Revelation 14-16. As the deadly wound was being received in 1798 the United States (earth beast) started to rise. See Revelation 13:9-18.

How do we know there isn't a literal 42 months fulfilled in the last days?

As per above, both Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 point to the same power and same prophecy, which was already fulfilled.
There is time no longer; all time prophecies have been fulfilled. See Revelation 10:5-7.
The days are shortened for the elect's sake, pointing to the fact that a time prophecy cannot be accurately fulfilled in the last days before the second coming. See Matthew 24:22.

The 1260 year time prophecy is a single fulfillment that happened between 538 AD and 1798 AD. The little horn of Daniel 7 received its deadly wound in 1798 AD. The sea beast of Revelation 13 is the little horn at a later point in time when its deadly wound is healed.

If all time prophecies are fulfilled, and the days are shortened, times cannot be accurately set for the tribulation period or the final events before the coming of Jesus. (Ellen does say that God speaks the time of His return to the saints during the tribulation. See The Day Star, January 24, 1846 and the follow-up on March 14,1846 on the same page.)

Scripture indicates that the beast's reign is very short.

Revelation 17:10-12 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

If we are meant to apply the day for a year principle to an hour, it would be 15 days. Regardless, it is a very short time.

Is the Deadly Wound Healed?

Revelation 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

The earth beast exercises all of the power of the first beast causing the earth to worship the beast after the wound is healed. This would point to the fact that the wound has yet to be fully healed.

Tigger Boy · Jan 10, 2026

SabbathBlessings said:
Sorry for these empty boxes, not good at working the mechanics on this site.

SabbathBlessings said:
2 Thess 2:14 He sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God

This is a man who tries to takes the place of God- meaning he has great religious power that the dragon gave him and he speaks for God when he ought not to. He thinks he takes the place of God on earth, when Jesus has all Authority Mat28:18

Satan does impersonate Christ but he also acts through the power of the little horn. Only one kingdom/power checks off all these boxes and it has to be the one who changed God’s times and laws Dan7:25 that the dragon worked through this power to do so. Only the beast can tell us what their mark is and they already have that is in direct contrast to God’s seal.

2 Thess 2:1-12 is referring to Satan. Verses 1-4 is speaking about the time just before the return of Christ, is it not? The little horn of Dan. 7 came on the scene or revealed in 538, did he not? Which is centuries before the time when Christ shall appear and the man of lawlessness shall be revealed, Satan in person.

Yes Satan has been working through the little horn, and other false religions as well, has he not?

You claim that satan will not impersonate Christ, I assume you mean in the flesh here on earth. I'm sure you know of Doug Bachelor, heads up Amazing Facts Ministries. Just finished watching the video below. Amazing visuals of closing events. In it he explains that Satan will appear on earth personating Christ, which will be the greatest delusions that Satan will ever perform. I encourage you to consider it and understand his delusion should you be on earth when he does.

Friday Night Live!

SabbathBlessings said:
BUT

Scripture says …. Satan works through the 4th beast little horn. Scripture does not say Satan becomes the 4th beast it says he gives him his power.

Rev 13:2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

The 4th, beast of Dan. 7, is Rome, not the little horn, I'm certain you know this but have misspoken here. And yes scripture does not say Satan becomes the 4th beast/Rome. Not aware of any scripture where it says that Satan gives the 4th beast/Rome his power. Where is that?

Rev. 13:2, a description of the beast from the sea, has no physical smilarities to either the 4th beast/Rome of Dan. 7, or the little horn/papacy. And the timing of the beast from the sea upon earth is after the deadly wound on one of it's head is healed. That head being one of earth's major religions, Catholicism. And yes Satan at that time still in the spirit real will give the sea beast his power.

SabbathBlessings said:
Revelation is not written in chronological order, it is written in repeat and enlarge. Trying to make it in chronological order one will come to wrong conclusions.

Correct. To paraphrase rule one, "Each Individual Prophecy" has a starting and ending point in time, and each event within each prophecy is given by God, the author of apocalyptic prophecy in chronological order. Is that not ture with Daniel 2, and 7?
Not saying the hole book of Rev. is laid out in chronological order. Big difference.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 10, 2026

Tigger Boy said:
2 Thess 2:1-12 is referring to Satan. Verses 1-4 is speaking about the time just before the return of Christ, is it not? The little horn of Dan. 7 came on the scene or revealed in 538, did he not? Which is centuries before the time when Christ shall appear and the man of lawlessness shall be revealed, Satan in person.

2 Thes 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

It does not say it is Satan, Satan works through the the little horn.

Tigger Boy said:
You claim that satan will not impersonate Christ, I assume you mean in the flesh here on earth.

SabbathBlessings said:

Satan does impersonate Christ

Tigger Boy said:
'm sure you know of Doug Bachelor, heads up Amazing Facts Ministries. Just finished watching the video below. Amazing visuals of closing events. In it he explains that Satan will appear on earth personating Christ, which will be the greatest delusions that Satan will ever perform. I encourage you to consider it and understand his delusion should you be on earth when he does.

Friday Night Live!

The 4th, beast of Dan. 7, is Rome, not the little horn,

The little horn rose from the 4th beast which agreed is Rome and the little horn, is the papacy, which came up from the 4th kingdom.

I am pretty comfortable where I stand on bible prophecy and take a similar belief to Pastor Doug Bachelor who was my pastor for many years before I moved. There is nothing you stated that has persuaded me that the Sunday law, will not be the mark of the beast once its enforced. Only the beast can tell us their mark and they did plainly. I am okay agreeing to disagree though.

Be well.

Tigger Boy · Jan 10, 2026

Freth said:
Daniel and Revelation describe the same symbols, the same actions, and the same prophecy.

Freth, I do appreciate your response, and will do my best to answer your concerns. But as I mentioned to SabbathBlessin, please consider the four rules which are the foundation of what I believe must be understood and applied if one wants to understand the one and only truths that apocalyptic prophecy reveal. Which of the four do not make those prophecies speak for themselves?

Now to your concerns. Where does Dan., speak of the seven seals, trumpets or bowl judgements. The mark of the beast, sealing of the 144,000, book sealed with seven seals, or the judgment of the living? I must disagree with your statement, sorry. But yes they both speak of the little horn power/papacy and it's 1260 year reign, and the man of lawlessness/Satan appearing on earth personating Christ, which you understand to be the papacy. Should you want to know which prophecies of Dan., do, just ask.

Tigger Boy · Jan 10, 2026

Freth said:
Daniel 7 pointing forward. ↓

A mouth speaking great things against the most High.

Wears out the saints of the most High.

Thinks to change times and laws.

They shall be given into his hand until a time, times and the dividing of time (1260 years).

Revelation 13 pointing back. ↑

He was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies. He opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven.

Power was given to him to continue 42 months (1260 years). It was given him to make war with the saints and overcome them. Power was given him over all kindreds, tongues and nations.

Also of note are other mentions of the same time prophecy which concern that same period of Christian persecution fulfilled between 538 AD to 1798 AD.

Yes, the little horn/papacy fulfilled your four bullets above. The beast from the sea in Rev. 13 not yet upon the earth will speak much the same for it is Satan who empowers them both but at different times. I will not address the 42 months of the sea beast here as I am working on a post that I will put up shortly which explains in more depth the importance of rule one, chronology within each prophecy. Which prove that the 42 months follow the 1260 years, thus they are not the same. I ask that you to be open to consider it. Too, once you understand my reasoning better you will be in a better position to show me my error. Right?

Tigger Boy · Jan 10, 2026

Freth said:
How do we know there isn't a literal 42 months fulfilled in the last days?

As per above, both Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 point to the same power and same prophecy, which was already fulfilled.

There is time no longer; all time prophecies have been fulfilled. See Revelation 10:5-7.

The days are shortened for the elect's sake, pointing to the fact that a time prophecy cannot be accurately fulfilled in the last days before the second coming. See Matthew 24:22.

The 1260 year time prophecy is a single fulfillment that happened between 538 AD and 1798 AD. The little horn of Daniel 7 received its deadly wound in 1798 AD. The sea beast of Revelation 13 is the little horn at a later point in time when its deadly wound is healed.

Will not address your concerns here as I mentioned earlier, the post that I will shortly post will address these concerns and show why rule four which I have previously posted is a valid hermeneutic as apposed to always interpreting time as day/year. Making more sense of time prophecies.

I have in years past attended many Rev., seminars, and it takes many lessons and hours to paint the large picture of Rev., story and answer the many concerns of those participating, more so with those attending with preconceived beliefs. I'm not asking you to give up what you now believe, but consider something new and improved. For no one can grow in knowledge least they hear and understand something new. After understand something new you are in a better position to either except or reject it.

Tigger Boy · Jan 10, 2026

Freth said:
Is the Deadly Wound Healed?

Revelation 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

The earth beast exercises all of the power of the first beast causing the earth to worship the beast after the wound is healed. This would point to the fact that the wound has yet to be fully healed.

Rev. 13:3 One of the heads[papacy] of the beast seemed to "have had"[past tense] a fatal [deadly] wound, but the fatal wound "had been" [past tense] healed. This is a describtion of the sea best John sees coming up out of the sea. He see nothing of this head receiving it's fatal wound after in comes out of the sea.

Latter when the second beast comes out of the earth, it sees that the head on this beast has been healed and rightly so since the healing took place before that head and six other religions take center stage on earth along with the seven horns/world leaders.
Satan continues to work through the little horn as he has done in the past, and the Little Horn/papacy will be one of the seventeen world players, as Satan works to force the world to worship him, and not our creator.

Tigger Boy · Jan 10, 2026

SabbathBlessings said:
Be well.

I appreciate your responses, I really do. However, like others you have not made any comment on the four laws of interpretation I have posted, which form the foundation of which all my interpretations of apocalyptic rest. Yet nobody has been willing to expressed why they think they are invalid. Would appreciate your thoughts on them and share those you think are better.

Yes I am well, thank you.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 11, 2026

Tigger Boy said:
Yes, the little horn/papacy fulfilled your four bullets above. The beast from the sea in Rev. 13 not yet upon the earth will speak much the same for it is Satan who empowers them both but at different times. I will not address the 42 months of the sea beast here as I am working on a post that I will put up shortly which explains in more depth the importance of rule one, chronology within each prophecy. Which prove that the 42 months follow the 1260 years, thus they are not the same. I ask that you to be open to consider it. Too, once you understand my reasoning better you will be in a better position to show me my error. Right?

Follow what, exactly, if the 42 months are just another form of the same number already given as 1260? You’d be turning an equivalence-set into two separate eras — without the Text saying so.

The sea beast is the little horn i.e. Papacy across history, its one power with phases.

Tigger Boy · Jan 11, 2026

A deeper understanding of Chronology

Many Christians today have little understanding of the transformation of which our Bibles today have undergone throughout the centuries. It wasn’t until 1205, that the Bible was divided into chapters and three centuries latter 1551 into verse. The reason obviously was as more people learned to read and possessed Bibles there was a need for people to find certain passages for study by chapter and verse. The Geneva Bible was the first English Bible, with these changes and appeared in 1560. And while our modern Bibles provides us some distinct advantages, this does carry with it certain danger. There are places where those adding chapter, verse and sentence delineation, end a chapter or verse in an awkward position, which can cause us to separate in our minds things which the biblical authors intended to be read together.

So imagine if you served on the committee tasked with dividing the early manuscripts into chapters or the latter committee having now to divid the existing chapters into paragraphs and sentences. Too, you would not have understood rule one I shared in my first post which states: Each prophecy has a beginning point and an ending point in time, and the events within each prophecy occur in the order in which they are given. The results of not understanding this is the Bible that exists today, in which a single prophecy(apocalyptic) may start and end within a chapter, or can start and end between verses into one chapter and continue on into the following chapter or two.

Examples of when individual prophecies start and end within chapters. Daniel (2:29-45); (7:1-12); (8:1-12); (Rev. 7:1-8:1) (12:1-6); (12:7-14:5). These texts are the prophecies only, not the narratives that sometimes follow the actual prophecy.

Note (Rev.12:1-6). This is a prophecy about Lucifer (the dragon), Christ (the male child), and the people of God (the woman). This prophecy begins with Lucifer attempting to kill Jesus at birth, but he fails. Lucifer then focuses his hatred forJesus on the bride of Christ, but she flees into the wilderness to a place prepared for her for 1,260 years, 538-1798. Thus this prophecy starts with the birth of Christ and ends at the end of the 1260 years in 1798, and all of the events are chronological, as stated in rule one.

In verses 7 -9 in speaks of a war in heaven, in which Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. This event did not happen after 1798, where verse 6 ended in time, but goes back in time instead. Therefore, we note a break in chronology here, thus the ending of the previous prophecy and beginning of a new prophecy with its chronological events. This next prophecy then begins in (Rev. 12:7) and the events continue in chronological order through (14:5), in which the chronology of events is broken between (14:5 and 6) and another prophecy begins.

Rev. 12:7-14:5, Beginning point in time: Resurrection Sunday, A.D. 30. Ending point in time: 1,265th day of the Great Tribulation. Summary: This apocalyptic prophecy describes three types of kingdoms: Political, religious, and demonic. The first type lasted approximately 1,000 years (605 B.C.- 538 A.D.). During this time, political leaders governed world empires (represented by the four beasts in Daniel 7). The second type lasted 1,260 years (538-1798). During this time, religious leaders dominated the nations of Europe (the little horn in Daniel 7). The third and final type of kingdom will last 42 months and Satan will dominate the entire world.

Too, note in Rev, 12:13, that this prophecy repeats the event of the devil pursuing the woman in the wilderness for the 1260 days, time, times and a half of time. This is the case where prophecy often repeats itself and in so doing broadens our understanding of that event. For in verse 17 we learn Satan lost that battle and went off to wage war against the remnant beginning in chapter 13:1-10, in which Satan gives the sea best his power. The sea beast is a entity made up of seven major religions the seven heads, of which the papacy is the one who’s fatal wound has been healed, and the ten horns are wold leaders. This beast comes on the world stage because of the previous four trumpet judgements of Rev. 8, putting the world into survival mode and this crisis governing body arises to bring stability to the world.

After the sea beast arrives Satan gives it 42 literal months to rule. It is important to remember here that the events are moving forward thus the 42 months follow the previous 1260 years mentioned earlier within the same prophecy in chapter 12:13,14. Therefore, these two time periods are not the same, the 1260 years ended in 1798, whereas, the 42 month are yet future.

The fourth rule dealing with time states: The presence or absence of the Jubilee Calendar determines how God measures time. If a prophetic time period occurs during the operation of the Jubilee Calendar (1437 B.C. - 1994), time is translated as a day for a year; otherwise, translation is not permitted.

Let me share a few texts where the invalid hermeneutic that time within prophecy must always be translated a day for a year and the internal conflicts they create. First one must understand that a valid law of interpretation has no except, otherwise it would not qualify as a law. However, we do not interpret the thousand years of (Rev. 20:2, 4) as a day for a year, but literal instead, therefore, that law is invalid.

Consider (Rev. 9:4-6) The Millerites interpreted the time as 150 literal years as the day/year rule was believed to be correct long before there time. Too, since they believed Christ was to return in 1844, they found a historical event that fit the 150 year time span, being the rise of the Ottoman Empire, 1299-1499, which we hold to date. But the texts says John saw a star that had fallen [past tense] from the sky. This star is Satan, having been thrown out of heaven. He is given the key to the abyss by God, and he and his angels will leave the spirit real and appear on earth after the first four trumpet judgements have destroyed a third of earth’s grass, plants and trees. Note in verses 5-6, these angels are permitted by God to torture the unsealed for five months(also a future event) and the people wish they could die but cannot, as death will elude them. But if the period is interpreted as 150 years, death would surely claim them all. Thus, the invalid interpretations of 150 years puts the texts in a state of internal conflict. But if one understands rule four knowing the the fifth trumpet is yet future after the expiration of the Jubilee Calendar, then no translation is needed and the time is a literal five months, then there is no internal conflict between the five months and death alluding individuals.

The third texts is (Dan. 12:11-13) It states, “From the time the daily sacrifice is abolished. The word sacrifice is not in the original texts but added latter by translators. In the original texts it refers to the Daily Corporate Intercession of Christ in the Heavenly Sanctuary, in behalf of the world.( Rev. 8:2-5). When it ends the trumpet judgements begin, from that point in time until the universal death decree of the saints, those not having Satan’s mark will be 1290 days, near the end of the seven bowl judgements. On the 1335 day Christ returns. Daniel is told he will be raised up at the end of those days to receive his inheritance, (therefore we know the 1335 days are future )and we must assume along with the rest of the righteous at Christ coming, although not mentioned. If one interprets this time as 1290 and 1335 years, then again one creates an internal conflict because it is not possible for anyone to wait 1335 and be alive to receive it’s blessing.

Still the prophecy is moving forward in chronological order to (Rev. 13:11-18). As I have previously mentioned is the rise of Satan onto the worlds stage personation Christ setting up the image to the first beast and latter his mark. Still moving forward in time (Rev.14: 1-5) ends with John seeing the 144,000 servant/prophets of Rev. 7, in heaven after a special resurrection and presented to the Father and Jesus as the first fruits of earth harvest which will shortly follow. Vesrs 6 -13 of that chapter then speaks of the three angles messages which we know are given before the first fruit of the harvest are presented to God in heaven, therefore again a break in chronological is broken thus a new prophecy begins.

Well this has been rather a long post and I covered a lot of chronological events within some of the prophecies, to show how much more information is gleaned once we understand it. Of course most will reject all of this simply because it is new to them, since our natural instinct is to reject something we yet don’t understand. I just ask that you reread my posts along with the prophecies and see if they begin to make more sense just as they read, and present truth begins to appear.

Blessing to you the reader.

Tigger Boy · Jan 11, 2026

SabbathBlessings said:
Follow what, exactly, if the 42 months are just another form of the same number already given as 1260? You’d be turning an equivalence-set into two separate eras — without the Text saying so.

Those two time periods are not the same as the Millerites understood them. Please consider reading my last post #12, as I demonstrate, a deeper understanding of chronology reveals greater understanding within apocalyptic prophecy which they did not understand prior to 1844, the return of Christ.

CW 36 “Long-cherished options must not be regarded as infallible. It was the unwillingness of the Jews to give up their expositions of scriptures; but however long men may have entertained certain views, if they are not clearly stained by the written Word, they should be discarded. We have many lessons to learn , and many, many to unlearn… Those who sincerely desire truth will not be reluctant to lay open their positions for investigation and criticism, and will not be annoyed if their opinions and ideas are crossed… God and heaven alone are infallible.”

Blessing

Tigger Boy · Jan 11, 2026

SabbathBlessings said:
I appreciate your throughs. However, I do not believe the Millerites came to the same conclusion you did. I haven't seen any Adventist come to this conclusion.

Not sure you are comprehending my posts, as I have been telling you my interpretation differ from the Millerites because I use improved hermeneutics, therefore, my interpretation are much different.

Not knowing Adventist who hold to my views does not surprise me as we, are few among many. But truth in regard to the interpretation of apocalyptic prophecy is base on valid laws of interpretation and apply them correctly, not on numbers who believe or disagree, on this or any religious issue.

Before you leave our conversation I would appreciate you thoughts on the four rules of interpretation that were observed to be a constant in fulfilled prophecies. These laws like all of God's natural laws that govern his creation are not written out in the bible, but have been observed by individuals studying in various fields of study, and written out in their own words so others in their field of study can verify their validity.

Thanks for taking time to chat.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 12, 2026

Tigger Boy said:
Not sure you are comprehending my posts, as I have been telling you my interpretation differ from the Millerites because I use improved hermeneutics, therefore, my interpretation are much different.

Not knowing Adventist who hold to my views does not surprise me as we, are few among many. But truth in regard to the interpretation of apocalyptic prophecy is base on valid laws of interpretation and apply them correctly, not on numbers who believe or disagree, on this or any religious issue.

Before you leave our conversation I would appreciate you thoughts on the four rules of interpretation that were observed to be a constant in fulfilled prophecies. These laws like all of God's natural laws that govern his creation are not written out in the bible, but have been observed by individuals studying in various fields of study, and written out in their own words so others in their field of study can verify their validity.

Thanks for taking time to chat.

Thanks for the clarification on the Millerites

Part of our fundamental beliefs is the SOP of EGW.

Ellen White and prophecy explicitly warns against “dual fulfillment”/futurist moves that relocate the core time prophecies away from the classic historicist reading https://adventistbiblicalresearch.o...d-the-interpretation-of-daniel-and-revelation

I think we are too far apart in our beliefs and nothing you have presented has convinced me the way the SDA church has interpreted these prophecies for many decades are in error.

This is not a discussion I am interested in pursuing further, but wish you well.

Tigger Boy · Jan 13, 2026

SabbathBlessings said:
I think we are too far apart in our beliefs and nothing you have presented has convinced me the way the SDA church has interpreted these prophecies for many decades are in error.

You have head it said, “That time does not make error into truth.” Too, “ That as Adventist we believe the Bible and the Bible only as our rule of faith.”

I believe the Holy Spirit has been parading your last statement through my mind since you posted it. And has led me to the following thoughts to share with you and other Adventist who may read this thread.

When it comes to understanding the books of Daniel and Revelation, is your faith in the Bible only or is it in the teachings of our church? Base on the many posts I’ve shared with Adventist here on this forum, I would say all have their faith in the church’s teachings. Whereas, I have stand on the Bible and its chronology only.

I have previously posted the following:
First, Adventist do not recognize rule one, concerning chronology as a valid law. Example: Rev. 8:2-9:21 is the prophecy revealing the trumpets judgements. It begins with a heavenly event in which seven angles standing before God are given seven trumpets. It then reveals the termination of the service at the altar of incense. This service was shadowed in the earthly sanctuary and was called the “Daily”, and provided God’s corporate atonement for the nation of Israel. This corporate atonement allowed individuals time to recognize their sins and present their individual sin offerings at the altar of burnt offerings, while living in the presence of God, without being destroyed. This service points back to the day that Adam sinned and Jesus stepped between the destroying angle that was to take the life of Adam and Eve the day they sinned. (Gen. 2:17, KJV)) Jesus since that day has been interceding in behalf of the human race. We as Adventist move vss. 2-5 out of their chronological order. Following is our reasoning for doing so, SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 7, pg. 787. “According to the view that Seventh- day Adventists have favored, the cessation of the angel’s ministry at the altar of incense is symbolic of the end of the ministration of Christ for mankind-the close of probation, the voices, thunderings, lightnings, and earthquake that ensue when the angel cast the censer into the earth describe events to take place at the end of the seventh trumpet, following the opening of the temple (ch. 11:19);…”Some prefer to see ch. 8:3-5, not so much in its chronological, as in its logical, relationship to the seals and trumpets.”

This is undeniable prove, not a false claim of mine, that our early church fathers have altered the word of God. Lacking faith that He our creator knowing the beginning from the end, ruler of the universe, having predetermined closing events, has made a mistakes in the chronological order within prophecy. Altering Gods chronology changes Revelations story. Are you comfortable with these facts, thus your understanding of Revelations story is distorted?

Tell me, is moving Rev. 8:2-5 and other events out of order different than the Catholic Church altering God’s moral law? What would your responses be today if our church fathers had switched the events of creation week switching the second day with those of the seventh? Would you be defending it today? What impact would that have on the Sabbath and our faith in the Bible as it is written?

Let me share what I believe is the tragic results of what our early church fathers have done unintentionally by moving Rev. 2-5 out of its proper chronological order.

First, we interpret the first four trumpet judgements as highly symbolic and historic, when in fact they are literal and yet future.

Second, according to the sanctuary model trumpets were blown nine days prior to the day of atonement to warn the living that probation would close on the tenth day. God not wanting anyone to be cut off from the tribe. In the future the trumpet judgments start the tribulation to alert the world to the close of probation as God wants to save as many as possible.

Third, nearly all Christians are not mentally prepared for the trumpet judgments, therefore, should they experience them their faith will be severely shaken, and possible lost during the world’s darkest hour, in the same boat as those believing in a secrete rapture.

Fourth, lacking knowledge of their actual fulfillments, and their proper chronology their faith will not grow stronger should they witness each ones fulfillment.

Fifth, lacking a correct understanding one can not pass it down to their children, or share it with fellow members of our faith, nor point people to Bible prophecy to show what God is doing and why, should they be living at that time.

The good news is Rev. 2-5, the ministration of Christ for mankind-the close of corporate probation, followed by literal worldwide voices, thunderings, lightnings, and a earthquake, is yet future. Time for you to grow in faith and understanding before they take the world by surprise. This will take courage on your part and be stressful in the process. I know I’ve had to face this type of stress twice, first studying my way out of a Sunday church of 33 yrs., and latter after believing our interpretation of Revelation for ten, and excepting what I’m sharing with you now. A time of testing.

I am not alone, there are thousands worldwide, because of a nondenominational ministry with a library of books, and videos, in many languages. Interested just ask.

I pay this post brings you face to face with a tough decision, and you are facing the same stress you put others into when presenting the Sabbath truth. The Holy Spirit is testing your faith, will it remain in your religion or in the Bible only? There is a difference.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 13, 2026

Tigger Boy said:
You have head it said, “That time does not make error into truth.” Too, “ That as Adventist we believe the Bible and the Bible only as our rule of faith.”

I believe the Holy Spirit has been parading your last statement through my mind since you posted it. And has led me to the following thoughts to share with you and other Adventist who may read this thread.

When it comes to understanding the books of Daniel and Revelation, is your faith in the Bible only or is it in the teachings of our church? Base on the many posts I’ve shared with Adventist here on this forum, I would say all have their faith in the church’s teachings. Whereas, I have stand on the Bible and its chronology only.

I have previously posted the following:
First, Adventist do not recognize rule one, concerning chronology as a valid law. Example: Rev. 8:2-9:21 is the prophecy revealing the trumpets judgements. It begins with a heavenly event in which seven angles standing before God are given seven trumpets. It then reveals the termination of the service at the altar of incense. This service was shadowed in the earthly sanctuary and was called the “Daily”, and provided God’s corporate atonement for the nation of Israel. This corporate atonement allowed individuals time to recognize their sins and present their individual sin offerings at the altar of burnt offerings, while living in the presence of God, without being destroyed. This service points back to the day that Adam sinned and Jesus stepped between the destroying angle that was to take the life of Adam and Eve the day they sinned. (Gen. 2:17, KJV)) Jesus since that day has been interceding in behalf of the human race. We as Adventist move vss. 2-5 out of their chronological order. Following is our reasoning for doing so, SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 7, pg. 787. “According to the view that Seventh- day Adventists have favored, the cessation of the angel’s ministry at the altar of incense is symbolic of the end of the ministration of Christ for mankind-the close of probation, the voices, thunderings, lightnings, and earthquake that ensue when the angel cast the censer into the earth describe events to take place at the end of the seventh trumpet, following the opening of the temple (ch. 11:19);…”Some prefer to see ch. 8:3-5, not so much in its chronological, as in its logical, relationship to the seals and trumpets.”

This is undeniable prove, not a false claim of mine, that our early church fathers have altered the word of God. Lacking faith that He our creator knowing the beginning from the end, ruler of the universe, having predetermined closing events, has made a mistakes in the chronological order within prophecy. Altering Gods chronology changes Revelations story. Are you comfortable with these facts, thus your understanding of Revelations story is distorted?

Tell me, is moving Rev. 8:2-5 and other events out of order different than the Catholic Church altering God’s moral law? What would your responses be today if our church fathers had switched the events of creation week switching the second day with those of the seventh? Would you be defending it today? What impact would that have on the Sabbath and our faith in the Bible as it is written?

Let me share what I believe is the tragic results of what our early church fathers have done unintentionally by moving Rev. 2-5 out of its proper chronological order.

First, we interpret the first four trumpet judgements as highly symbolic and historic, when in fact they are literal and yet future.

Second, according to the sanctuary model trumpets were blown nine days prior to the day of atonement to warn the living that probation would close on the tenth day. God not wanting anyone to be cut off from the tribe. In the future the trumpet judgments start the tribulation to alert the world to the close of probation as God wants to save as many as possible.

Third, nearly all Christians are not mentally prepared for the trumpet judgments, therefore, should they experience them their faith will be severely shaken, and possible lost during the world’s darkest hour, in the same boat as those believing in a secrete rapture.

Fourth, lacking knowledge of their actual fulfillments, and their proper chronology their faith will not grow stronger should they witness each ones fulfillment.

Fifth, lacking a correct understanding one can not pass it down to their children, or share it with fellow members of our faith, nor point people to Bible prophecy to show what God is doing and why, should they be living at that time.

The good news is Rev. 2-5, the ministration of Christ for mankind-the close of corporate probation, followed by literal worldwide voices, thunderings, lightnings, and a earthquake, is yet future. Time for you to grow in faith and understanding before they take the world by surprise. This will take courage on your part and be stressful in the process. I know I’ve had to face this type of stress twice, first studying my way out of a Sunday church of 33 yrs., and latter after believing our interpretation of Revelation for ten, and excepting what I’m sharing with you now. A time of testing.

I am not alone, there are thousands worldwide, because of a nondenominational ministry with a library of books, and videos, in many languages. Interested just ask.

I pay this post brings you face to face with a tough decision, and you are facing the same stress you put others into when presenting the Sabbath truth. The Holy Spirit is testing your faith, will it remain in your religion or in the Bible only? There is a difference.

I asked you about the 28 Fundamental Beliefs for a reason, which by definition also includes the Spirit of Prophecy. I am always cautious of those who claim the name Adventist while teaching views that stand in opposition to established Adventist doctrine.

What you’ve shared represents your interpretation. You may believe it is correct, but that does not make it authoritative, nor does it substantiate the accusations about the SDA interpretation of Daniel and Revelation.

Your whole system depends on a strict-chronology rule Revelation doesn’t follow, and it breaks the Bible’s own link between 1260 days, 42 months, and time-times-half-a-time-so it ends up redefining prophecy instead of allowing the Bible to explain it.

There is no tough decision for me to make, I have studied Revelation and Daniel myself, I am not going to claim to be an expert, but you have not convinced me that your interpretation is right over what better matches the Bible and current events in my view.

Tigger Boy · Jan 14, 2026

SabbathBlessings said:
Your whole system depends on a strict-chronology rule Revelation doesn’t follow,

You continually deny the law of chronology within each apocalyptic prophecy. Are you able to demonstrate your claim to me and all readers of this tread that this is not the case, by choosing just one prophecy from either Daniel, or Revelation that supports your claim?

Too, since you refute rule one, how would you define an apocalyptic prophecy?

Tigger Boy · Jan 15, 2026

Greetings SabbathBlessin. It has been over 24 hours since I responded to your last post, and you have not responded, which is way beyond all your previous response time. Thus I can only assume you are unable to support your claim that the events within any given prophecy in the book of Rev., are not in chronological order.

I on the other hand have made claims during our posts exchanges and have demonstrated my claims. In my last post I asked for you to prove your claim, for the purpose to show you that you are mistaken in understanding this unique feature about apocalyptic prophecy, which is different than other types of prophecy.

However, me asking you a few hard questions has offended you it seems, which is not my intent, but rather for you to go deeper than your understanding of our interpretations, but how we as Adventist arrived at those interpretations, which few Adventist clearly understand. As you know we believe in the Historic Method of interpretation, and I have expressed on this site that I believe it is invalid, thus much of our interpretation of apocalyptic prophecy is invalid.

In the link you previously sent me, under the heading, “The Historicist Method of Interpretation “ an explanation is given. If states we Adventist have excepted the interpretations of many renowned scholars of various faith from the past. Let me ask you a question (do not be offended, I want you to think) What are the changes that these scholars of various faiths understood all of the main doctrines that we as Adventist believe? Do you not suppose that ones doctrinal beliefs would have had a profound influence on how they interpreted prophecy? The most important point brought out in that explanation of Historicism, was the day year interpretation of prophectic time.

I have asked other Adventist on this site to share what they understand to be the rules of interpretation within Historicism other than the day/year rule. I get no response. Do you know of any other rules?

You recall I have posted the four laws that I believe to be valid laws for a valid interpretation of apocalyptic prophecy. I believe them to be better than Historicism because, first they were observed to have occurred in the fulfillment of all apocalyptic prophecy fulfilled to date. Second they cover four issues that must be resolved in order to correctly interpret apocalyptic prophecy, 1) chronology, 2) a legitimate fulfillment, 3)how to interpret the three types of language used, literal, symbolic, and analogous, 4) prophetic timing. I find in these more comprehensive laws a more assured method to arrive at God’s intended meaning of His prophecies, than just the law of timing within Historicism.

Therefore, SabbathBlessin, I understand your reluctance to except the four laws I have introduced to you, because Historicism has never understood. Certainly you must believe the events within Dan. 2:29-45; 7:1-12; 8:1-12; 9:20-27 are all chronological? In Rev., 4:1-6:17 the same law of chronology is observed, and continues throughout Revelation. Why? Because it is a law God built into these prophecies to arrive at their true interpretation. Since you are not able to disprove them, why refuse to except it as law? Often it is ones pride that prevents them from excepting something new, thus they remain in darkness and further light prevents them from moving forward.

Assuming you are well informed of our interpretation of the seals and trumpets you would realize they each have a beginning and ending point in time which Is part of the definition of rule one. Under the sixth seal (Rev. 6:12-17) note our interpretation of the events therein and the chronological order. (SDA Bible Commentaries, vol. 7, pg. 779) “Inasmuch as the earthquake is followed by the darkening of the sun, and the latter event may be dated in A.D. 1780 this earthquake has been identified with the Lisbon quake on Nov. 1, 1755… Sun became black…a spectacular, literal fulfillment of the scene described here was experienced in eastern New York and southern New England May 19, 1780…was recognized by students of prophecy as fulfilling the present passage. (From the GC., pg. 332) Rev. 6:13, This prophecy received a striking and impressive fulfillment in the great meteoric shower of November 13, 1833. These quotes prove that our church father’s interpretations sometimes followed the chronology within some of the prophecies, but not a law that must be followed at all times. They chose these historical events which were indeed chronological but also because they preceded 1844, the return of Christ as they believed.

Now before you become more enraged at these thoughts, please read (Rev. 6:12-17) and ask yourself if the sixth seal is actually describing the actual physical events when the face of Jesus is seen sitting on His throne as it comes down from heaven, (v.16) as apposed to events that were fulfilled starting over two centuries in 1755, 1780 and 1833? I will not ask for your answer, so be honest with yourself.

Should this be the end of our dialogue, I wish you well, as you have often wished that of me.

Tigger Boy · Jan 16, 2026

YourOnlySunshine said:
I would have said that the mark of the beast in your forehead consisted in believing in the evolution of humans from apes. In your hand, brute like, bestial behavior.

Most translations say, on your hand, on your forehead, I take this to be a more accurate translation.

Based on your understanding then, say you wish to buy food, how would you prove you actual believe in evolution, which you understand to be the mark in the forehead. On the other hand you understand one most prove they have bestial behavior proving they have the mark in their hand. Since either mark is not visible, and having the mark carries a death sentence will you claiming to have a mark in either your hand or forehead be accepted just by you making such a claim?

Too, how does either mark as you understand them fulfill the specification that the mark is the name of the beast, or the number of his name? Should we ignore these specifications which God has given us to identify this beast and his mark?

In your statement, "I can definitely see also what she meant" who is she you are referring to?

We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Chronology rules out Sunday as the Mark of the Beast.

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Similar threads