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Can we imagine what hell is like?

JohnB445

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What do we know?

Cause we do know it's certainly not red demons with horns and a tail, poking at people with a pitchfork in a fire, with Satan being the ruler of hell sitting on a throne somewhere in the place.

I see this is what media tries to imagine what hell is like, but I saw nothing like that in the Bible.
 
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Mark Quayle

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When I was young it was popular to claim that hell is simply separation from God. While there is truth to that —separation from God— that doesn't well describe the things we read in Scripture and what we can reason from them. Not only direct teachings, but the nature of God, God's purpose in creating, God's burning purity and the fact that all things, and specifically in this context anything good, comes from God; and also from what we can know about the nature of what God has created, and what it is, apart from him.

The lake of fire is not just a place, nor just a status, nor just a state, nor just a position in reference to God. Not only are those relegated to infinite perdition no longer given to repent, but they are only what is left when God has removed all his virtue from them. If anyone has a loved one they think to be lost to that place, consider that they no longer very much resemble whom we thought we knew. Wraiths, hating and despairing, like Satan, knowing that God himself, the first cause of all fact, is AGAINST them, with all the justice due those who rebel against their very maker in whom they lived and breathed and had their existence. Hell is not just a place of suffering, but a place of torment, where punishment precisely fits the specifics of their crime of enmity against the Eternal Almighty. They are mocked by their own thoughts and deeds committed during this life. There is nothing that happens to them that they don't deserve.

For those upon whom God has mercy, on the other hand, consider that for you, Jesus Christ paid this precise death on your behalf. Abandon all hopes of half-hearted pursuit of Christ, while entertaining the lusts of this world. The two things are incompatible. Yet we have to depend on his mercy. Let nobody think to impress God with their own virtue or obedience. We are as bad as those who went to hell, but for the righteousness of Christ in place of our sin, and the change from life to death within us by the Spirit of God. WE are not the makers of our goodness, but as he is good within us. Grace
 
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Matt5

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Three kinds of hell:

1. Hell as death. You merely cease to exist.
2. Hell for angels. Prison for angels.
3. Hell with wailing and gnashing of teeth.

In the case of #3, the Bible is describing the effects of nuclear war. If you want to know what #3 looks like, then check out this video:

What radiation does to the human body | HBO's Chernobyl - YouTube

The Bible hides the truth because you won't listen anyway. Matthew 13:13 explains.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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What do we know?

Cause we do know it's certainly not red demons with horns and a tail, poking at people with a pitchfork in a fire, with Satan being the ruler of hell sitting on a throne somewhere in the place.

I see this is what media tries to imagine what hell is like, but I saw nothing like that in the Bible.

I think it's apt to say that the central operative word here much of the time is, as you've implied, "imagination"..............about some theological idea for which we have very,very little data or full descriptive explanation.

Where 'Hell' is concerned, it's best to say as little as possible and remain accurate rather than more and still claim to be "accurate."
 
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RileyG

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What do we know?

Cause we do know it's certainly not red demons with horns and a tail, poking at people with a pitchfork in a fire, with Satan being the ruler of hell sitting on a throne somewhere in the place.

I see this is what media tries to imagine what hell is like, but I saw nothing like that in the Bible.
Separation from God.

Beyond that, I try to not think about it.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I think it's apt to say that the central operative word here much of the time is, as you've implied, "imagination"..............about some theological idea for which we have very,very little data or full descriptive explanation.

Where 'Hell' is concerned, it's best to say as little as possible and remain accurate rather than more and still claim to be "accurate."
As usual, it is easier to say what a thing is not, than to say what it is.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Between the information Scripture actually gives us, and just how confident we as Christians often are at proclaiming all sorts of absolute dogmatic pronouncements about hell is an incredibly vast chasm.

The truth is that most of us have, arguably, been more influenced by particular traditions (in some cases, very recent traditions) than we are influenced by Scripture.

I have, over the years, pointed out that while the Church, historically, has a long history of proclaiming--quite strongly--positive dogmatic claims about the ultimate state of the righteous: about the resurrection of the dead, about the life of the Age to Come, etc. There is, actually, shocking little of that to be found when it comes to the topic of hell.

Hell, for example, doesn't get any mention in any of the great Creeds of the Christian Church. Not because we haven't always believed in hell, and not because the topic of hell is unimportant--but I have a suspicion that the Church, filled with the Holy Spirit, has been tempered by wisdom to not speak too strongly on a subject that we know remarkably little about.

So what do I think hell is like? I have no idea. But it's not the Beatific life, it's not the fullness of life with God in the joy and perfection of the Age to Come. There's what God is going to do for all creation, promised in Christ and being accomplished even now through our salvation, and then there's not that. Hell is the not that.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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As usual, it is easier to say what a thing is not, than to say what it is.

And sometimes, we just realize that whether we'd like to make a cataphatic or an apophatic discernment about some aspect of theology, neither can be sufficiently determined due to a paucity of necessary contextual information.

When necessary details about an entity are not available, such as in the case of Gehenna or Tartarus or Hades, I prefer to settle for simply saying that whatever "eternal destruction" actually is metaphysically when referred to by, say, Paul the Apostle it's bad. So, whether it's eternal or it's not eternal, it's bad.

What seems to happen in these sorts of discussions is that if we suggest that 'hell' is non-eternal, there's a knee-jerk reaction among some Christians where they think that if hell isn't eternal, then it's not really a bad ending. And that, I think, is a gross error. It's like saying that if a murderer is sent to the electric chair and immediately put to death rather than serving a long, drawn out sentence in a cell where he can languish for a very long time, he's somehow escaped punishment. As if the electric chair isn't really a form of punishment.

The fact of the matter is, the New Testament writers seem to present theological vagueness about the nature of Gehenna, Tartarus and Hades rather than explicit, necessarily sufficient explanations that don't require further deductive guesses.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Separation from God.

Beyond that, I try to not think about it.

"Separation from God"

And yet we read in the Psalm, "Where can I go from Your Presence?" "If I make my bed in She'ol, see, You are there" (Psalm 139).

This is why the Orthodox have actually, tended, contrary to the Western view, viewed hell not as a separation from God's presence, but an experience of God's presence. St. Isaac the Syrian being tremendously influential here, argued that God's love is inescapable and unavoidable; and what makes hell hellish is the same thing that makes heaven heavenly: being in the presence of the loving God who made all things. Why it is hellish or heavenly depends not on location, but persuasion.

So am I saying "separation from God" is inaccurate? No. I think that it's actually still a good way of talking about hell--and yet the question: How is it possible to be where God is not when God is everywhere? How can one be outside of the scope of God's love when God is love?

When I ask myself these questions I'm reminded of how, apart from Christ, I am a stranger to God; not because I am somehow able to escape God's presence as He is everywhere; or that I am somehow outside of His love. But that I am, as the Apostle St. Paul reminds us, without Christ, at enmity with God. In my natural, carnal man--my old sinful Adam--someone who hates and loathes God. And so I am at enmity and a stranger; but in Christ I have been brought out of darkness into light; brought near through Christ and I have become child and heir.

I can't help but consider that, in some sense, hell is what it means to be outside of that Communion with God which is found only in Christ, through the redemption in Him--and that hell is the fruit of existence without the Life-Giving, Infinite, Loving God who draws all things to Himself through His Son. It's death continued, sin continued, this estrangement continued. St. John speaks of that lake of fire and brimstone as "the Second Death" where even Death and Hades are cast.

If hell truly were just the cartoonish fiery pit where devils prod sinners with pitchforks, then we might be able to laugh it off as comically absurd; but hell as, what N.T. Wright describes as our "progressive de-humanization" is a far more horrifying prospect. Or what C.S. Lewis, in parable, describes as an overwhelmingly vast dull grey city in The Great Divorce.

I think of those moments in this life where I am most alone, most angry, most confused, most despaired--and it's in that existential loneliness that I can't help but wonder is a infernal foretaste of what an eternity without Christ is like. Not in being boiled in oil by impish devils for eternity, but left alone in myself without so much as the spark of hope that comes from living: for to be alive is a gift, and eternal life is life made full; and to reject that gift so thoroughly as to be dead beyond death in the dull dark and grey of my own innermost self is a hell I wouldn't wish on the worst kind of person.
 
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RileyG

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"Separation from God"

And yet we read in the Psalm, "Where can I go from Your Presence?" "If I make my bed in She'ol, see, You are there" (Psalm 139).

This is why the Orthodox have actually, tended, contrary to the Western view, viewed hell not as a separation from God's presence, but an experience of God's presence. St. Isaac the Syrian being tremendously influential here, argued that God's love is inescapable and unavoidable; and what makes hell hellish is the same thing that makes heaven heavenly: being in the presence of the loving God who made all things. Why it is hellish or heavenly depends not on location, but persuasion.

So am I saying "separation from God" is inaccurate? No. I think that it's actually still a good way of talking about hell--and yet the question: How is it possible to be where God is not when God is everywhere? How can one be outside of the scope of God's love when God is love?

When I ask myself these questions I'm reminded of how, apart from Christ, I am a stranger to God; not because I am somehow able to escape God's presence as He is everywhere; or that I am somehow outside of His love. But that I am, as the Apostle St. Paul reminds us, without Christ, at enmity with God. In my natural, carnal man--my old sinful Adam--someone who hates and loathes God. And so I am at enmity and a stranger; but in Christ I have been brought out of darkness into light; brought near through Christ and I have become child and heir.

I can't help but consider that, in some sense, hell is what it means to be outside of that Communion with God which is found only in Christ, through the redemption in Him--and that hell is the fruit of existence without the Life-Giving, Infinite, Loving God who draws all things to Himself through His Son. It's death continued, sin continued, this estrangement continued. St. John speaks of that lake of fire and brimstone as "the Second Death" where even Death and Hades are cast.

If hell truly were just the cartoonish fiery pit where devils prod sinners with pitchforks, then we might be able to laugh it off as comically absurd; but hell as, what N.T. Wright describes as our "progressive de-humanization" is a far more horrifying prospect. Or what C.S. Lewis, in parable, describes as an overwhelmingly vast dull grey city in The Great Divorce.

I think of those moments in this life where I am most alone, most angry, most confused, most despaired--and it's in that existential loneliness that I can't help but wonder is a infernal foretaste of what an eternity without Christ is like. Not in being boiled in oil by impish devils for eternity, but left alone in myself without so much as the spark of hope that comes from living: for to be alive is a gift, and eternal life is life made full; and to reject that gift so thoroughly as to be dead beyond death in the dull dark and grey of my own innermost self is a hell I wouldn't wish on the worst kind of person.
Very well said, thank you.
 
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ARBITER01

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What do we know?

Cause we do know it's certainly not red demons with horns and a tail, poking at people with a pitchfork in a fire, with Satan being the ruler of hell sitting on a throne somewhere in the place.

I see this is what media tries to imagine what hell is like, but I saw nothing like that in the Bible.

Hell might be hard to imagine, but the lake of fire is more easily understood.
 
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Bob Crowley

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Hell is a morbid topic, but we don't need to imagine it. Just look up the saints visions of Hell and that will be more than enough.

To even up the books a bit, sometimes the same saints were also given glimpses of Heaven.


I think it's more than "separation from God". That's just the beginning.
 
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Always in His Presence

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What do we know?

Cause we do know it's certainly not red demons with horns and a tail, poking at people with a pitchfork in a fire, with Satan being the ruler of hell sitting on a throne somewhere in the place.

I see this is what media tries to imagine what hell is like, but I saw nothing like that in the Bible.
How does that help us?

Seems learning more about God and heaven would be more productive in living a Godly life.
 
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