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ICE shooting in Minneapolis, police swarm scene

Akita Suggagaki

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And there it is again. Ashlie Babbitt, who was unarmed, was shot and killed by a Capitol Police officer, and some here have argued that that this was justified. But when an ICE agent shoots someone who attacked him with a car, some of the same ones argue that Good's shooting was not. And yet Babbitt was unarmed and Good used the vehicle as a weapon. That, to put it politely, is inconsistent.
One need not be armed to pose a danger. How about “Stand your ground” laws? He was defending the capital and lawmakers within it.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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One need not be armed to pose a danger. How about “Stand your ground” laws? He was defending the capital and lawmakers within it.
But even that does not mean he was justified in shooting. I am glad that I was not there to witness exactly how it happened.
 
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stevevw

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And there it is again. Ashlie Babbitt, who was unarmed, was shot and killed by a Capitol Police officer, and some here have argued that that this was justified. But when an ICE agent shoots someone who attacked him with a car, some of the same ones argue that Good's shooting was not. And yet Babbitt was unarmed and Good used the vehicle as a weapon. That, to put it politely, is inconsistent.
It has been a double standard from the beginning. In fact it is so obvious now that some are even admitting it. More or less saying who cares we must stop them no matter what.

When it gets to that level all common sense goes out the window. Everything is about hate. Hate becomes a powerful force in itself.

I think there is a lot of hateful narratives that lead up to a situation getting out of hand. Like a fire being stoked that will eventually explode or get out of control. Thats why its important to stop the hateful and violent language that stirs people up to do stuff like this.

Christ said even if someone hates another and holds a grudge in their heart they are in danger of murder. They own or another persons.
 
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FenderTL5

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It has been a double standard from the beginning. In fact it is so obvious now that some are even admitting it. More or less saying who cares we must stop them no matter what.

When it gets to that level all common sense goes out the window. Everything is about hate. Hate becomes a powerful force in itself.

I think there is a lot of hateful narratives that lead up to a situation getting out of hand. Like a fire being stoked that will eventually explode or get out of control. Thats why its important to stop the hateful and violent language that stirs people up to do stuff like this.

Christ said even if someone hates another and holds a grudge in their heart they are in danger of murder. They own or another persons.
Are you suggesting that the double standard is not applicable for those who justify this shooting by ICE but condemn the shooting of Ashley Babbit?
I see the same evil lurking in the hearts of those who revel in death.

fwiw, I oppose the concept of LEO as judge, jury, and executioner. I oppose the death penalty in almost all cases.
 
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stevevw

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Are you suggesting that the double standard is not applicable for those who justify this shooting by ICE but condemn the shooting of Ashley Babbit?
I see the same evil lurking in the hearts of those who revel in death.

fwiw, I oppose the concept of LEO as judge, jury, and executioner. I oppose the death penalty in almost all cases.
No sorry I was not referring to that incident but making a more general statement.

But as to whether the other side does the same. Then thats still a double standard. A double standard is a double standard no matter which side.

But its quiet obvious that the level of fixation on Trump cas caused some to become deranged and make all sorts of crazy claims. Often when someone makes such a extreme or obvious false claim it usually means that they are projecting.
 
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Tuur

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One need not be armed to pose a danger. How about “Stand your ground” laws? He was defending the capital and lawmakers within it.
That's a horrible misunderstanding of Stand Your Ground laws and of self-defense, one that would likely result in both a killing and a murder charge. The legal application of deadly force hinges on threat of death by the assailant. Some states added a responsibility to flee. In other words, if someone broke into your house and aimed a gun at you, these states required an attempt to flee before responding with deadly force. Stand Your Ground laws only remove the requirement to flee first. That's not what the media usually reports about it, indicating that either the media doesn't understand that or hopes their viewers/readers won't. If, in a Stand Your Ground state, an unarmed person stands on a lawn and the owner shoots and kills him, the owner is going to have a hard time justifying it as self-defense.

Note that some here who have argued that Babbitt's killing was justified and Good's is not have tried to claim the ICE officer should have tried to flee but will not make the claim about the officer who shot Babbitt. Either both officers were required to flee or neither officer was required to flee. Either both officers were allowed to use deadly force without their lives being threatened, or neither officer was allowed to use deadly force without that requirement. Given that Good attempted to run over the ICE agent, that's particularly interesting.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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That's a horrible misunderstanding of Stand Your Ground laws and of self-defense, one that would likely result in both a killing and a murder charge. The legal application of deadly force hinges on threat of death by the assailant. Some states added a responsibility to flee. In other words, if someone broke into your house and aimed a gun at you, these states required an attempt to flee before responding with deadly force. Stand Your Ground laws only remove the requirement to flee first. That's not what the media usually reports about it, indicating that either the media doesn't understand that or hopes their viewers/readers won't. If, in a Stand Your Ground state, an unarmed person stands on a lawn and the owner shoots and kills him, the owner is going to have a hard time justifying it as self-defense.

Note that some here who have argued that Babbitt's killing was justified and Good's is not have tried to claim the ICE officer should have tried to flee but will not make the claim about the officer who shot Babbitt. Either both officers were required to flee or neither officer was required to flee. Either both officers were allowed to use deadly force without their lives being threatened, or neither officer was allowed to use deadly force without that requirement. Given that Good attempted to run over the ICE agent, that's particularly interesting.
The two shootings are not comparable. So different are the circumstances. Nevertheless, both shooters were wrong and both victims invited tragedy.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Thats what happens when you reject Christ. It is only through Christ that we can love our enermies.
Does that include undocumented people in the United States?
 
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d taylor

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So the guy with thd baseball cap on backwards saying, “Get the _____ out of the car!” Is ICE?
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Look i just posted a link to the video of this version had has just came out.. You are watching the video just like me, so decided what you think is happening. I have no dog in the argument.


 
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stevevw

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Does that include undocumented people in the United States?
Loving enermies does not mean loving sin. Or loving the idea of breaking the law. Christ also said give unto Ceasar what is Ceasars and to God what is Gods.

God installed governments so that His Kingdom could be done on earth and that people would be saved. A good government and leaders should be ideally of God. But at the least upholding the institutions and laws that God installed. The ones all humans know.

This is to keep peace and order.

Otherwise there is chaos and society breaksdown. That is a far greater wrong for Christians. In not upholding Gods institutions and reducing the number of enermies in the world.
 
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stevevw

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So this guy blames social media. What does he think he is?
I think he was pointing out how some on social media and in the legacy media were painting a misrepresentation of what happened by only showing certain parts and angles. So that it looked like the officer shot the women for doing nothing.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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And the truth comes out. The only reason why you see my one vehicle ahead of her was because she was deliberately blocking traffic, resulting in a huge line of cars behind her. Completely defeating the narrative that she was "doing nothing wrong." Also, it turns out that she was ANTIFA.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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I keep wondering: if a car is coming at you, why would you stand there and pull a gun. Isn’t the natural and most instinctive response to dodge the vehicle? I don’t see how shooting helps. The car just keeps moving.
 
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stevevw

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Why are people not pointing out that these people were antagonising law enforcement all that day. In fact the women belonged to a radical group to make it their whole mission in life to obstruct law enforcement officers.

They have been caught up in an ideology that deludes them into believing they have the right to stop law enforcement. Are not subject to the law and are above the law. That in itself should tell you enough.

Its like every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Or the saying "I fought the law and the law won". Why do some people not understand this obvious and simple fact. Thats because they are caught up in a ideological belief and like all religious beliefs people do crazy things that defy reality and truth.
 
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