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Breaking: Venezuela attacked by U.S. Update: Maduro and wife captured.
- Thread starter Valletta
- Start date
BasedLutheran
Active Member
That's what they're in the process of doing. This was the arrest and extradition, now she's in NY for the trial(s)
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- Aug 18, 2012
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An "extradition" by definition would have been carried out by the government of Venezuela.
Juan Orlando Hernandez was extradited by the Honduran government in cooperation with the U.S. Department of Justices. That is how a an Internation fugitive should be brought to the US for prosectuion.
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Tuur
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- Oct 12, 2022
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War for oil is a popular mantra, going back to at least the first Gulf War. Curious thing: didn't seem to hear it when Clinton was trying to drum up support to force Iraq to live up to their part of the agreement ending the first Gulf War. Seem to recall it when the second Gulf War started up.
Whatever. The ironic thing is that the US has a history of going to war in Latin America over fruit.
Something I don't think has been mentioned is that Cuba has been cut off from Venezuelan oil is desperately needs. Just mentioning it.
As to the US and nation building, well, we don't have a very good history there, at least not recently. I'd just as soon the US doesn't get involved in such in Venezuela. The offer to those remain seems to be a "work with us or get out of the way," meaning we don't particularly care how they do things so long as they aren't a nuisance to the US. That might not be what humanitarians want to hear, but given our track record, might be for the best there, too.
As to the oil, I think Chevron is still there, but if I had an oil company, I wouldn't be in a rush of going back to Venezuela.
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Under the Bush administration's "Operation Just Cause" wasn't Manuel Ortega flown from Panama to the U.S, by US special forces, Just like Maduro?
...Why was that okay, but this isn't?
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Yes, we'll see if the US demands that Venezuela cut off Cuba's supply of oil. That step would economically strangle the Cuban regime. To date, I have not heard the Trump administration mention it.
Agreed. Trump seems to think otherwise based on his numerous comments about the great American oil companies....
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Yeah, I'm over the nation building stuff. Trump ran with a no nation building piece of his platform. I don't and won't support any such thing.
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Why not learn from our mistakes, and take a new approach to nation building?
...Think of a non-violent, observatory approach, where we simply seize things on the seas, until "the right" concessions are made? Sure some cultures are more reasonable than others - here were dealing with Western people and not crazy jihadists who blow themselves up.
We can block Russian and Chinese ships from entering, and we can seize Venezuelan ships trying to leave forever if we need to, until things are proper. That's easy.
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- Sep 4, 2005
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Is he actually their leader?
Or was he a guy who lost by a pretty decent margin, and had allies in the state-friendly media release bogus results, destroyed the evidence afterwards, and then refused to leave?
2024 Venezuelan presidential election - Wikipedia
If he's not their real elected leader, and just a "player" in a criminal enterprise, then the US capturing him shouldn't be viewed as any more a "act of war" than when we went into Columbia to get Escobar.
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- Sep 4, 2005
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It's not a war.
For the type of action in question, I believe the executive has 60 days to brief the congress.
There is the need for some secrecy for high-value/high-risk military operations.
We can't have months of Special Operations planning going down the drain because of some rookie congressman with an ax to grind getting a little "Twitter-happy" after a few cocktails.
...it's for the same reason that Obama didn't brief the congress until after the operation to take out Bin Laden was completed.
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Germany does not recognize Maduro as the legal leader of Venezuela. Over 60 countries don't.
...Everyone is falling for for the lies of the anti-Trump media. We can do better.
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In order for that to work, you need someone with power to authorize the extradition, who would've signed the order of extradition for Maduro (being that he was the guy who had to personally sign off and approve all extraditions)?
FWIW
I haven't ruled out the prospect of what I've heard called before, a "half palace coup".
Meaning, someone who has a certain level of power in their government and worked closely with Maduro (close enough to know his schedule and where he'd be), working with the US government and feeding them the intel they needed to know exactly where and when to find him.
Obviously this thing was well-planned out. They were in and out with a highest value target in a country (and a country with one of the more powerful regional militaries, and Russian security attachés to boot) in 22 minutes and change.
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Akita Suggagaki
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Venezuelan Official Says at Least 40 People Were Killed in U.S. Attack
The official said the dead included civilians and military personnel.Was it worth innocent civilian lives?
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Too late to turn back the clock now. It's done.
...But nobody wanted that to happen.
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In terms of pragmatic policy making?
Yes. Liberating 30 million people at the expense of 40 casualties (some of which were military men shooting at our guys) is far from the worst case scenario. (and that's if the Venezuelan official is being truthful... authoritarian regimes haven't been above stripping the garb off of a fallen soldier, or dressing a soldier in civilian clothing, specifically for the purposes of counting it as a "civilian casualty" should they happen to get taken out in an exchange)
There's no such thing as a "collateral-free endeavor" in these sorts of situations.
Until they invent magic transporter beams, these types of engagements where the person needs to be taken alive, there will almost always be "gunfire exchanges", and some casualties (and inadvertent ones) will happen.
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