What is your opinion? - The intended readership of Hebrews.

Fervent said:

I 've read The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware and Encountering the Mystery by Bartholomew I. Though most of my connection with non-western perspectives is from surveys like Light from the Christian East by James R. Payton Jr. and Scripture in Tradition by John Breck. I tend to prefer reading ancient works rather than modern ones when it comes to theology...one of which got me in trouble with God.

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...now I'm just super curious...

Rose_bud said:

...now I'm just super curious...

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It was The Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by John of Damascus...which God confronted me about my pursuit of trying to figure out how He thinks and ended up putting me in the mental hospital.

Fervent said:

It was The Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by John of Damascus...which God confronted me about my pursuit of trying to figure out how He thinks and ended up putting me in the mental hospital.

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I've not been in a mental hospital, but I can surely say I have been tempted to know the how, the why etc. A good read and eye opener was the "The sin of certainty" by Peter Enns.

Rose_bud said:

I've not been in a mental hospital,

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I've made several trips, all at least partially related to theological issues.

Rose_bud said:

but I can surely say I have been tempted to know the how, the why etc

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A common temptation.

Rose_bud said:

. A good read and eye opener was the "The sin of certainty" by Peter Enns.

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I'll have to add that to my to read list.

Fervent said:

I've made several trips, all at least partially related to theological issues.

A common temptation.

I'll have to add that to my to read list.

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It would be interesting to hear the process and what you learnt along the way, people understand that there is some convergence between mental health and theology, but I think lived experiences can shed so much light. Because it may not be what we think, my sister was diagnosed with bi-polar and had a few visits, now imagine what it was like for her with our Pentecostal background...

Rose_bud said:

It would be interesting to hear the process and what you learnt along the way, people understand that there is some convergence between mental health and theology, but I think lived experiences can shed so much light. Because it may not be what we think, my sister was diagnosed with bi-polar and had a few visits, now imagine what it was like for her with our Pentecostal background...

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If you're really interested, I could PM you.

And I can only imagine, as my background is about the polar opposite of Pentecostalism...cold, austere, doctrinal, Baptist.

Fervent said:

If you're really interested, I could PM you.

And I can only imagine, as my background is about the polar opposite of Pentecostalism...cold, austere, doctrinal, Baptist.

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Yes please. I spent some time in Baptist circles as well, it brought some balance.

Rose_bud said:

Yes please

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It seems you have your profile limited, so you'll have to white list me in order for me to PM you

Fervent said:

Yes, and perhaps my primary challenge is that if I want to escape a lot of the things central to my own perspective I need to seek out alternatives, so I perceive the hegemony of academic theology more of a threat to my objectivity than someone who is naturally an outsider.

Diversity of approaches are probably a decent way to combat a lot of what I am talking about.

I 've read The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware and Encountering the Mystery by Bartholomew I. Though most of my connection with non-western perspectives is from surveys like Light from the Christian East by James R. Payton Jr. and Scripture in Tradition by John Breck. I tend to prefer reading ancient works rather than modern ones when it comes to theology...one of which got me in trouble with God.

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Rowan Williams is also excellent to read, if you like patristic theology and eastern spirituality, but want somebody more conversant in western critical scholarship and culture. He's a very profound, integrative Christian theologian and scholar, in that way.

Fervent said:

It was The Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by John of Damascus...which God confronted me about my pursuit of trying to figure out how *He thinks and ended up putting me in the mental hospital.

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Like with more than a few was it your trust in Greek orthodoxy and perhaps that of John of Damascus who believed graven images/icons (e.g. Mary, Jesus) were aok in the grounding of one's Faith whether Greek Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism?

Until one grasps the distinction between Jewish religious "trust" in their "Law" as used in the OT/OC and that of a "born again Faith" as used in the NT/NC for both Jew and gentile ... then one's belief is more or less denominational theology (religiousity), e.g. Pharisees, Sadducees, Greek Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, and some form of Protestantism.

Xeno.of.athens said:

What is your opinion?

Hebrews is written to whom? And does its intended readership shape the way you will interpret its words?

God, having spoken long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days spoke to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds, who is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power; who, having accomplished cleansing for sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:1-4 LSB

God spoke to US in His Son ... Is that phrase sufficient to identify the intended readership? Who is "us"?

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I think the most immediate and right-in-our-face answer is Jewish Christians. A more nuances answer is that it probably is addressed to Jewish Christians who are dealing with persecution for being Christians (Rome, generally, at least before 70 AD, tolerated Judaism; but when Christianity began to be viewed as distinct from Judaism, Rome did not have that same tolerance). The author seems very concerned with trying to encourage his readers to remain faithful to Jesus, to remind them that what they have in Christ is greater than what they had before; there is a Great High Priest, greater than the high priest in Jerusalem; and the author warns his readers about the danger of giving up their Christian hope, that they will forfeit their salvation if they do so. So underlaying the epistle seems to be certain Jewish Christians who may be considering abandoning Christianity and returning to Judaism.

-CryptoLutheran

Xeno.of.athens said:

Hebrews is written to whom? And does its intended readership shape the way you will interpret its words?

God spoke to US in His Son ... Is that phrase sufficient to identify the intended readership? Who is "us"?

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Being "we/us" generally agree that "Hebrews" was penned by Paul, under the inspiration of His(God's) Holy Spirit then shouldn't "we/us" also believe this verse penned by Paul under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit ...


It only gets complicated when man's religious denominational theology takes precedent over that of God's Holy Spirit. Theology is expressed by man's academic prowess. Thus one reason for acquiring a doctorate degree in theology so as to better grasp/interpret the Holy Bible

It can get confusing (mental illness) when man's faith in a religious denominational theology takes precedent over that of the counsel and teaching of God's Holy Spirit.

The huge mistake so many make with the Epistles, and esp. with Paul's are shoehorning them to a narrower audience than intended. There are passages that state a specific audience, but like almost all sermons.. they also include wider applications for those with "ears to hear". Just like a pastor will open with "brothers and sisters", knowing that not all in the congregation are actually believers. Refusing to acknowledge any and all possibility of nuance in the Epistles has led to some of the most egregious theology and doctrine in the history of the Church. That said, Hebrews is clearly leveled mainly at Hebrews, and many claim only at believers... but if you can't see the Epistle is largely evangelistic, you aren't really seeing.

I agree that passages in Hebrews along with the rest of the Bible are such that God meant in some way for application to any reading the Bible to hear God's word. I don't just agree that Hebrews was written by Paul though, that would be an assumption without adequate basis for me. There are reasons to doubt it, though I admit I do not know, even if others do not admit it. The ones originally receiving it did know. I am thinking that those after them did not believe what the receivers told them about who it was from. Being dismissed, that testimony is lost. But it was apostolic and can be known as what is included among the word of God. Now, do any want to think about discussing the first book of Enoch?

The strongly Jewish character of the letter to the Hebrews helps to narrow down its date of composition, most likely AD 64–69. The book makes no reference to the destruction of the temple at Jerusalem in AD 70, and the author wrote as if the sacrificial system were still in existence (Hebrews 10:1-2,11). With its myriad references to Hebrew customs and the Old Testament, the book would most likely have been sent to a Jewish Christian community, maybe in Rome.

The Epistle to the Hebrews clearly lays out the present priestly ministry of Christ in the life of the believer. Jesus is both the divine Son of God and completely human, and in His priestly role He clears the way for human beings to approach the Father in heaven through prayer (Hebrews 4:14-16). The priesthood of Jesus is superior to the Old Testament priesthood of Aaron, because only through Jesus do we receive eternal salvation (5:1–9). Furthermore, Jesus became the permanent and perfect High Priest, going beyond all other priests by offering Himself as a sinless sacrifice on behalf of the sins of human beings (7:24–26; 9:28).

Throughout its pages, Hebrews makes clear that Jesus Christ exceeds all other people, pursuits, objects, or hopes to which human beings offer allegiance. Hebrews pictures Jesus as better than the angels, as bringing better lives to humanity through salvation, as offering a better hope than the Mosaic Law could promise, as a better sacrifice for our sins than a bull or a goat, and as providing a better inheritance in heaven for those who place their faith in Him (Hebrews 1:4, 6:9, 7:19, 9:23, 10:34). Jesus is indeed superior to all others.

This message of the superiority of Jesus would have been particularly important to Jewish Christians in Rome, who were struggling under Nero’s persecution and were considering moving back toward the Mosaic Law. The writer to the Hebrews showed these Jewish Christian believers that, though they were faced with suffering, they were indeed following a better way, and they should persevere.

Xeno.of.athens said:

What is your opinion?

Hebrews is written to whom? And does its intended readership shape the way you will interpret its words?

God, having spoken long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days spoke to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds, who is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power; who, having accomplished cleansing for sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:1-4 LSB

God spoke to US in His Son ... Is that phrase sufficient to identify the intended readership? Who is "us"?

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# 1. THE CLOSING WORDS of Paul are {. GRACE BE WITH YOU ALL. in HEB 13:25. )

# 2 THE mention of TIMOTHY. in HEB 13:23

# 3 Amd Paul was instructed in ALL ASPECTS of the LAW Gal 11:14

#. 4 Peter said that Paul had written a LETTER. to his PEOPLE. 2 PETER 3:15 and if was NOT HEBREWS then where is it

and if lost then the BIBLE is not complete ,



#v5. Paul did have a MINISTRY in. ACTS 9:15

# 7. Paul is only writer to quote HABAKKUK 2:4. in. the NEW TESTAMENT. 3 times , each with a different emphasis

ROM. 1:17 , GAL 3:11. , HEB 10:38 , and Paul. was the ONLY one to ask for prayer for himself in HEB 13:18. , PRAY FOR US

# V8. And Paul is the ONLY. ONE who WROTE. about the PASSING AWAY. , of the OLD COVENANT. in Heb 8:13. AND

IN HEB 9:18

dan p