The Sabbath, Worship and the End Time

Hentenza said:

the law and the prophets did not hang on the two love commandments.

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If they didn't He would not have said it...

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

The 2 "love" commandments originally appear in the Torah...

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Actually, the love command that Jesus gave to mankind was new. It states that we are to love others as He loves us. In Jn 15:13 Jesus gives an example of this Love. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

Bob S said:

Actually, the love command that Jesus gave to mankind was new. It states that we are to love others as He loves us. In Jn 15:13 Jesus gives an example of this Love. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

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My response was regarding the "2 love commandments"...

Thank you for expanding

Freth said:

• The mark of the beast will either be in the forehead or right hand.
  • The forehead is where your mind is. Each person has freedom of conscience and the ability to reason. A person can choose to worship the beast or not.
  • The hand performs actions. A person's deeds. A person may not consciously choose to worship the beast but may go along with it anyway.
• The seal of God will be in the forehead only.
  • Freedom of conscience and the ability to reason. A person can choose to worship God or not.
  • According to Ephesians 2:8-9 we are saved by grace through faith, not works; why there is no seal of God in the right hand.
  • Revelation 7:2-3 indicates that this is a spiritual mark that we can't see, evidenced by the fact that angels seal the servants in their foreheads.

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You go from a literal mark, so someone can't buy or sell (Mark of the Beast), and turn it into a symbolic/mystical reference. You can't do this when you read scripture. That's implying something scripture isn't saying at all. If the mark of the beast was symbolic, then I would say you have a point, but you're taking something literal and adding information/context to it that scripture doesn't give evidence for.

You're then applying that to an assumption for God's mark that again, scripture doesn't give evidence for and you're basing it off of a bad foundation of lumping a literal mark in with a symbolic one. When I say evidence, I mean when scripture says something that gives plain meaning. Like, Daniels vision of the Ram and Goat and then Gabriel literally explains it. So there isn't any assumptions or illusions to what it meant. Or if God gave a previous symbolism and then ties it to something else like Passover with Jesus. But even within that context, there isn't anything in scripture that even alludes to a seal being on the forehead because it's where your mind is, etc etc. There's nothing to parallel this idea.

Freth said:

God calls the Sabbath a sign, which is synonymous with mark/seal.

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A sign is not the same thing as a mark or a seal. Even though the word 'ot is translated as 'mark' in Genesis 4:15, you can't just copy and paste that definition everywhere. You have to look at the neighbor words to understand what is happening (grammar). In Genesis 4:15, the text uses the preposition לְ (le), meaning 'for' or 'to' Cain, this points to a physical identifier given to one person. But in Exodus 31:17, it uses בֵּינִ֗י (beini), meaning 'between.' This changes the meaning to a shared agreement or a 'sign' of a relationship. Just like in other languages where a word’s meaning changes based on the words it is paired with, Hebrew relies on these connections. So if you are obedient and keep the sabbath, its a symbolic "sign" people can see (because of your actions) that shows the relationship. Not a literal seal or even a symbolic seal on a forehead.

Delvianna said:

Thank you for expanding


You go from a literal mark, so someone can't buy or sell (Mark of the Beast), and turn it into a symbolic/mystical reference. You can't do this when you read scripture. That's implying something scripture isn't saying at all. If the mark of the beast was symbolic, then I would say you have a point, but you're taking something literal and adding information/context to it that scripture doesn't give evidence for.

You're then applying that to an assumption for God's mark that again, scripture doesn't give evidence for and you're basing it off of a bad foundation of lumping a literal mark in with a symbolic one. When I say evidence, I mean when scripture says something that gives plain meaning. Like, Daniels vision of the Ram and Goat and then Gabriel literally explains it. So there isn't any assumptions or illusions to what it meant. Or if God gave a previous symbolism and then ties it to something else like Passover with Jesus. But even within that context, there isn't anything in scripture that even alludes to a seal being on the forehead because it's where your mind is, etc etc. There's nothing to parallel this idea.


A sign is not the same thing as a mark or a seal. Even though the word 'ot is translated as 'mark' in Genesis 4:15, you can't just copy and paste that definition everywhere. You have to look at the neighbor words to understand what is happening (grammar). In Genesis 4:15, the text uses the preposition לְ (le), meaning 'for' or 'to' Cain, this points to a physical identifier given to one person. But in Exodus 31:17, it uses בֵּינִ֗י (beini), meaning 'between.' This changes the meaning to a shared agreement or a 'sign' of a relationship. Just like in other languages where a word’s meaning changes based on the words it is paired with, Hebrew relies on these connections. So if you are obedient and keep the sabbath, its a symbolic "sign" people can see (because of your actions) that shows the relationship. Not a literal seal or even a symbolic seal on a forehead.

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Just a FYI

For example

Eze 20:12 Moreover also H1571 I gave H5414 them my sabbaths, H7676 to be H1961 a sign H226 between me H996 and them, H996 that they might know H3045 that H3588 I H589 am the LORD H3068 that sanctify them. H6942

Sign here means:

1. sign, signal
   1. a distinguishing mark
   2. banner
   3. remembrance
   4. miraculous sign
   5. omen
   6. warning
2. token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof

Another example

John 6:27 Labour G2038 not G3361 for the G3588 meat G1035 which G3588 perisheth, G622 but G235 for that G3588 meat G1035 which G3588 endureth G3306 unto G1519 everlasting G166 life, G2222 which G3739 the G3588 Son G5207 of man G444 shall give G1325 unto you: G5213 for G1063 him G5126 hath G4972➔ God G2316 the G3588 Father G3962 sealed. ➔G4972

Sealed here:

1. to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
   1. for security: from Satan
   2. since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret
   3. in order to mark a person or a thing
      1. to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp
      2. angels are said to be sealed by God
   4. in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing
      1. to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
         1. of a written document
         2. to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be

SabbathBlessings said:

Just a FYI

For example

Eze 20:12 Moreover also H1571 I gave H5414 them my sabbaths, H7676 to be H1961 a sign H226 between me H996 and them, H996 that they might know H3045 that H3588 I H589 am the LORD H3068 that sanctify them. H6942

Sign here means:

1. sign, signal
   1. a distinguishing mark
   2. banner
   3. remembrance
   4. miraculous sign
   5. omen
   6. warning
2. token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof

Another example

John 6:27 Labour G2038 not G3361 for the G3588 meat G1035 which G3588 perisheth, G622 but G235 for that G3588 meat G1035 which G3588 endureth G3306 unto G1519 everlasting G166 life, G2222 which G3739 the G3588 Son G5207 of man G444 shall give G1325 unto you: G5213 for G1063 him G5126 hath G4972➔ God G2316 the G3588 Father G3962 sealed. ➔G4972

Sealed here:

1. to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
   1. for security: from Satan
   2. since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret
   3. in order to mark a person or a thing
      1. to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp
      2. angels are said to be sealed by God
   4. in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing
      1. to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
         1. of a written document
         2. to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be

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Please re-read my point on grammar. It addresses this as to why I say you can't just take the definition and say all definitions are applicable to the word used.

Edit:
As an example, in Japanese, the word Sakana can mean the 'eater' or the 'food' depending on the tag next to it. You wouldn't say 'Sakana' always means 'food' just because you saw it used that way once. Or even that both definitions apply always. Hebrew works the same way. The wors 'Ot can mean a 'physical mark' or a 'covenant sign' depending on the tag (preposition) next to it. In Exodus, the tag is 'between,' which proves it's a relationship sign, not a physical mark.

Delvianna said:

Please re-read my point on grammar. It addresses this as to why I say you can't just take the definition and say all definitions are applicable to the word used.

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I see. I was just giving you some examples where it does.

The seal/sign/mark of God only He will see. While people may observe people keeping the Sabbath, God really sees what's going on in the heart, so I do not believe the human will be able to tell someone is sealed just by keeping the Sabbath, God's people will keep all of God's commandments including the Sabbath but only He really knows what's going on.

SabbathBlessings said:

I see. I was just giving you some examples where it does.

The seal/sign/mark of God only He will see. While people may observe people keeping the Sabbath, God really sees what's going on in the heart, so I do not believe the human will be able to tell someone is sealed just by keeping the Sabbath, God's people will keep all of God's commandments including the Sabbath but only He really knows what's going on.

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I added an edit to give another example of what I mean. I also understand where you're coming from. I do believe there is a literal mark that God places that we can't see in certain instances (144,000, Ezekiel). I'm working on replying to your private message, but I'm not 100% done yet with the video (it's been a crazy last few days). But so far, I agree that there is a seal of God that is placed on the forehead that probably only God and angels can see. But where I draw the line is saying the "sabbath" IS the identifier of a seal on your forehead. Even if used symbolically like, all sabbath keepers are the 'sign' of a relationship, to say definitively that the sabbath is the identifier is putting more emphasis on that, and not on any other commandments or fruits of the spirit. That's kind of why I have an issue when Freth says, "The seal of God being the Sabbath." If that makes sense.

Delvianna said:

I added an edit to give another example of what I mean. I also understand where you're coming from. I do believe there is a literal mark that God places that we can't see in certain instances (144,000, Ezekiel). I'm working on replying to your private message, but I'm not 100% done yet with the video (it's been a crazy last few days). But so far, I agree that there is a seal of God that is placed on the forehead that probably only God and angels can see. But where I draw the line is saying the "sabbath" IS the identifier of a seal on your forehead. Even if used symbolically like, all sabbath keepers are the 'sign' of a relationship, to say definitively that the sabbath is the identifier is putting more emphasis on that, and not on any other commandments or fruits of the spirit. That's kind of why I have an issue when Freth says, "The seal of God being the Sabbath." If that makes sense.

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God placed His seal on the Ten Commandments in the 4th commandment, its what sealed the entire document. It has His name (Lord thy God) His territory (heaven and earth) and title (Creator) Exo20:11

Jesus Himself said the Sabbath is a sign/mark between God and His people Eze20:12 Eze20:20

I do not believe everyone who keeps the Sabbath will be saved or that everyone who has kept Sunday without knowing the truth about God's Sabbath will be lost. I believe at the end, when the Sunday law passes and when Sabbath-keepers are not legally able to keep the Sabbath His Truth will be known where everyone can make a decision on who they obey. I know its hard to believe a law like this could/would ever pass, yet look what happened with Covid and how fast everything changed. I can show you some videos of what's going on in our government if you would like. I know you're super busy and its a lot to take in.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

If they didn't He would not have said it...

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Let me repeat my post so your can actually answer it in the context that I wrote it not in the out of context portion that you shrunk in your quote of my post. Try to answer it honestly this time.

Hentenza said:

Of course. But in the Torah the law and the prophets did not hang on the two love commandments. The change happened after Christ died on the cross for our sins and nailed the law to the cross (Col. 2:14).

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SabbathBlessings said:

God placed His seal on the Ten Commandments in the 4th commandment, its what sealed the entire document. It has His name (Lord thy God) His territory (heaven and earth) and title (Creator) Exo20:11

Jesus Himself said the Sabbath is a sign/mark between God and His people Eze20:12 Eze20:20

I do not believe everyone who keeps the Sabbath will be saved or that everyone who has kept Sunday without knowing the truth about God's Sabbath will be lost. I believe at the end, when the Sunday law passes and when Sabbath-keepers are not legally able to keep the Sabbath His Truth will be known where everyone can make a decision on who they obey. I know its hard to believe a law like this could/would ever pass, yet look what happened with Covid and how fast everything changed. I can show you some videos of what's going on in our government if you would like. I know you're super busy and its a lot to take in.

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The idea that a 'Seal' must contain a name, title or territory, is a modern analogy, but it isn't a biblical requirement. If you look at the actual 'seals' mentioned in the Bible (like the Signet Ring in Genesis 41:42 or the Seal in Esther 8:8), they weren't used to 'validate' a list of rules, they were used to close and protect a document and shows who owns it/came from.

You're also conflating two different concepts. Ezekiel "sign" isn't a literal "mark". It's a symbolic sign, not a stamp. You're adding in the word "mark" when grammar is against this. Exodus 20 and Ezekiel 20 use the word sign ('ot), not seal (chotam) or mark. Also, Ezekiel 20 uses the preposition 'between' (beini), which proves the Sabbath is a relational bridge, not a physical stamp. Linguistically, you have to understand grammar to see why translators chose the word "sign" and NOT "mark". To say "sign/mark" is breaking grammar rules and linguistics in general. You're applying english rules that don't apply to other languages. If you were to learn german, spanish, or chinese, it would be literally impossible if you were going to look a definition list and say that word means all those definitions all the time regardless of the sentence.

Here's an analogy: If I show you a wedding ring, it is a sign that I am married. But the ring didn't 'seal' the marriage, the legal contract and the vows did. The Sabbath is the 'ring' (the sign between the union as people can see it), it isn't the seal (the contract that people don't see). You can wear the ring to show the world you are taken, but the contract is what actually proves who you belong to and the vows you made.

So in essence, they can't be the same thing.

Delvianna said:

The idea that a 'Seal' must contain a name, title or territory, is a modern analogy, but it isn't a biblical requirement.
If you look at the actual 'seals' mentioned in the Bible (like the Signet Ring in Genesis 41:42 or the Seal in Esther 8:8), they weren't used to 'validate' a list of rules, they were used to close and protect a document and shows who owns it/came from.

You're also conflating two different concepts.

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I can show you this from Scripture regarding documents that contained a seal in the Bible. Give me a few days, its been a while since I studied this. I agree the seal of the document is a different seal than what we will receive at the end of time, but its not a coincidence He placed it in the 4th commandment that He said Remember.

Delvianna said:

Ezekiel "sign" isn't a literal "mark". It's a symbolic sign, not a stamp. You're adding in the word "mark" when grammar is against this. Exodus 20 and Ezekiel 20 use the word sign ('ot), not seal (chotam) or mark. Also, Ezekiel 20 uses the preposition 'between' (beini), which proves the Sabbath is a relational bridge, not a physical stamp. Linguistically, you have to understand grammar to see why translators chose the word "sign" and NOT "mark". To say "sign/mark" is breaking grammar rules and linguistics in general. You're applying english rules that don't apply to other languages. If you were to learn german, spanish, or chinese, it would be literally impossible if you were going to look a definition list and say that word means all those definitions all the time regardless of the sentence.

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Here is the word used for sign in Eze20:12 and Eze20:20

אוֹת ʼôwth, oth; probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.:—mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.

Delvianna said:

Here's an analogy: If I show you a wedding ring, it is a sign that I am married. But the ring didn't 'seal' the marriage, the legal contract and the vows did. The Sabbath is the 'ring' (the sign between the union as people can see it), it isn't the seal (the contract that people don't see). You can wear the ring to show the world you are taken, but the contract is what actually proves who you belong to and the vows you made.

So in essence, they can't be the same thing.

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There's actually two seals for the saved- they are already sealed by the Holy Spirit but in addition, they are also keeping the Sabbath which is the seal/sign between God and man Eze20:12 Eze20:20 which is contrast to the seal/mark of the beast who changed God's times and laws Dan7:25

Anyway its been a long day, I will try to provide more details on this soon.

Its good you are keeping an open mind and studying this for yourself.

God bless!

SabbathBlessings said:

I can show you this from Scripture regarding documents that contained a seal in the Bible. Give me a few days, its been a while since I studied this. I agree the seal of the document is a different seal than what we will receive at the end of time, but its not a coincidence He placed it in the 4th commandment that He said Remember.

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No worries, just reply to me whenever. No rush

SabbathBlessings said:

Here is the word used for sign in Eze20:12 and Eze20:20

אוֹת ʼôwth, oth; probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.:—mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.

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Right, which is why I made my point about definition lists and why you can't just look at them and say all words apply. The sentence for both does not translate the word "mark" for a reason and its down to grammar. So essentially, pretend it doesn't exist.

SabbathBlessings said:

There's actually two seals for the saved- they are already sealed by the Holy Spirit but in addition, they are also keeping the Sabbath which is the seal/sign between God and man Eze20:12 Eze20:20

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Yes, like in my analogy, the sabbath is the "ring" (sign) but not the "seal". Essentially, it has a symbolic meaning and does not mean a literal seal that applies to a forehead. You can keep the sabbath and be a murderer. So it can't be a literal "seal" unless you're saying all murderers go to heaven (which we know they dont.) I know you mentioned you don't believe all sabbath keepers doesn't mean they're all saved, but the reason I bring this up is because if the sabbath is a seal, then what are you sealing if the person is a murderer? It doesn't even logically make sense.

SabbathBlessings said:

Anyway its been a long day, I will try to provide more details on this soon.

Its good you are keeping an open mind and studying this for yourself.

God bless!

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Same. I'm exhausted .... I got 10 minutes left on the video you sent, I'll finish it tomorrow lol. Write back when you can, again, no rush.

Thanks, and I'm glad you do the same!

God bless you too! Get some rest

Hentenza said:

Let me repeat my post so your can actually answer it in the context that I wrote it not in the out of context portion that you shrunk in your quote of my post. Try to answer it honestly this time.

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Then let me repeat myself...my original point still stands.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Then let me repeat myself...my original point still stands.

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Which was? You made a “point” based on a faulty premise since you answered to what I did not say.

Hentenza said:

Which was? You made a “point” based on a faulty premise since you answered to what I did not say.

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Read it. It was not made on a faulty premise.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Read it. It was not made on a faulty premise.

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It was based on a faulty premise which resulted from you only quoting a bit of my post which then made the quote out of context. If you read the scripture the same way then I understand how you would end in error.

Delvianna said:

No worries, just reply to me whenever. No rush

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Happy New Year! I hope you have a blessed new year.

Delvianna said:

Right, which is why I made my point about definition lists and why you can't just look at them and say all words apply. The sentence for both does not translate the word "mark" for a reason and its down to grammar. So essentially, pretend it doesn't exist.

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I do sometimes see translators make mistakes, why I will always look up the word if I need more context, I can show you some examples if you would like.

That said, the translators used the same word for "sign" in Eze20:20 as the word they also translated into mark. I believe its the same thing mark/sign. Sign sounds better so I can see what its used more, but being marked by God as one of His people is not a bad thing so it can be used in a good way.

Genesis 4:15
HEB: יְהוָ֤ה לְקַ֙יִן֙ א֔וֹת לְבִלְתִּ֥י הַכּוֹת־
NAS: appointed a sign for Cain,
KJV: set a mark upon Cain,
INT: and the LORD Cain A sign lest slay

So regarding the literal seal God placed in the Ten Commandments, we see examples of this in a few places.

In Bible times a Kings seal would include the following

Name (who it belongs to)
Title/authority (what right they have to rule)
Territory/domain (what they rule over)

We clearly see God placed His seal in the 4th commandment

Name: the Lord
Title: Creator- who made
Territory- heaven and earth

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

And I do not believe its a coincidence that its in the last chapter of the Bible in the three angles message telling us to come out of our false worship system and get back to worshipping our Creator

Rev 14:7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him (name) who made (title) heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”(territory)

Without the seal of God on the 4th commandment, we would have no idea what God to worship in the first three commandments, it would be an unsigned document that wouldn't mean anything, but God placed it there, written by God personally Exo31:18, His Testimony and placed under His mercy seat Exo25:21 and is also in heaven Rev15:5 Rev11:19

Some other examples of Kings seals in Scripture

Cyrus decree:

Ezra 1:2

Thus says Cyrus king of Persia,
The LORD God of heaven has given me all the kingdoms of the earth

Name: Cyrus
Title: king of Persia
Territory/domain: all kingdoms of the earth (as given to him)

Dan 6:25-26

Then King Darius wrote to all peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth…”

Name: Darius
Title: King
Territory/domain: all peoples, nations, languages in all the earth


Pharaoh’s signet ring is explicitly connected to governing authority:

​

Gen 41:42-44
Pharaoh took his signet ring… and put it on Joseph’s hand……without your consent no man may lift his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.

Name: Pharaoh (title functioning as name)
Title: Pharaoh/king
Territory/domain: all the land of Egypt

There are several examples of this in Scripture.

In the end we will all be sealed/marked. Either having God's mark, or having the mark of the beast.

For God seal His people will have the following:

Rev 7:3 until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads
Rev 14:1 having His Father’s name written on their foreheads
(being God's people Eze20:12 Eze20:20) the name often reflects ones character and the law of God is a transcript of God's character and I can show examples of this if you would like.
They are sealed by the Holy Spirit Eph1:13

They will forsake their sins Pro28:13 through Christ John14:15-18

2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Which echo's this.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here[b] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
(compared to those who will receive the mark of the beast in the verse before Rev14:11)

The mark is something contrary to God's seal, the beast/government who changed God's times and laws Dan7:25 (Sabbath) that contains the seal of the living God.