Zions New Children

keras said:

Two Days of the Lord:

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In your opinion.

keras said:

It will NOT be unexpected; heralded by God and the angels and NOT a surprise, as He will Return exactly 1260 days, [42 months] after Satan desecrates the Temple. Daniel 9:27b, Revelation 13:5

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Oh well; I've got loads of time then.
No need to be ready, prepared or alert as Jesus taught. The Temple hasn't even been built yet - assuming it is at all - never mind been desecrated by Satan. And we should expect him to come 1260 days after that? Bags of time. Maybe I'll take a break from serving the Lord for a bit - after all, I can repent as soon as I hear that the first brick of the Temple has been laid.
Obviously I don't need to take any notice of his parables about bridegrooms and kings whose return is delayed, and the unprepared bridesmaids and lazy servants who suffered the consequences. How silly of them not to have known, in fact, that they could have worked out when their masters would return and been ready.
[Sarcasm.]

keras said:

Do you really think Amos 5:18-20 will be like the glorious Return?

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The Day of the Lord - as mentioned by Amos and other prophets - was an OT concept.
The Israelites believed that the Day of the Lord was when the Lord would come in power, reward the faithful Israelites; God's chosen, sons of Abraham, and defeat and punish all their enemies. The attitude that, as God's chosen, they would be alright/could not be punished/were in line for receiving some great rewards prevailed throughout the OT. They seemed to believe that they had the right to act as they liked. The prophets said, over and over again, that God could, and would, punish his people for disobeying his laws.
Amos was effectively saying, "why do you long for the Day of the Lord? It won't be sweetness and light for you because you have disobeyed the Lord's commands and broken the covenant." He wanted to wake them out of their smugness and spiritual apathy. Amos wasn't speaking about the return of Jesus. How could he have been; he didn't know him? I doubt he had any concept that God would be born in human form. If he had, he would never have considered that this God/man would be crucified and raised from the dead - never mind that he would return again one day.
Most Jews don't accept that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah. They are still waiting for their Messiah, who will probably, for them, return just as God is punishing all other Gentile nations - i.e us.

The Day of the Lord is a Jewish concept. I am not a Jew, I live under the New Covenant and am waiting for the return of the Lord Jesus.

keras said:

Stupidity.

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Not at all.
If Jesus isn't returning for several years, we've got loads of time. I'm not going to do any of the stuff that I mentioned - I love Jesus and want to serve him. But if you told a non Christian that they needed to repent to be ready for Jesus' return, they asked when he was coming back and you said, "oh in about 20 years or so", they would ask, "well what's the rush, then?"

keras said:

WE Christians have not yet made the new Covenant with the Lord. Hebrews 8:10-12 proves it.

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Jesus' blood seals the new Covenant.
God's word being in our hearts doesn't refer to learning Scripture - learning Scripture means it is in your mind but doesn't mean that you have accepted it and are living it. All Jewish boys had to learn their Scriptures by heart. It didn't prevent them from sinning and disobeying them.
God's Word is Jesus. Jesus told his disciples to remain IN him and he would remain IN us.
Because of the cross, we are reconciled to, and at peace with, God.
Because of Pentecost, God's Spirit can live IN believers. It is the Holy Spirit who confirms to us that we are God's children, Romans 8:16-17.
Before he died, Jesus said to his disciples, "this is my blood of the new covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins", Matthew 26:28.

keras said:

Do you think that nothing special or dramatic will happen before Jesus Returns?

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Dramatic things are happening all the time - and have been since the ascension.

keras said:

You know very well, that NOW is the time to get saved.

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Yes.
But if you told the average non Christian that Jesus wasn't returning for 15-20 years, they would think they could put off making a decision. Especially if they were young and had no thought of dying; that's what I'm saying.

keras said:

He has done His part, we have yet to become a cohesive Christian people, to make an everlasting Covenant with the Lord and receive the Blessings as Hebrews 8:10-12 Prophesies.

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How could someone make a covenant with another person/party if that person/party was nowhere near ready to make a covenant?
Sounds to me like you think it's conditional; that we have to do something to earn it.

keras said:

What Jesus said in Matthew 26:28, was for remembrance of His sacrifice and to look forward to a New Covenant.

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He didn't say that.
He said "this is my blood OF the new covenant," not "in anticipation of the new covenant".

keras said:

There has never been another real world changing event since Noah's Flood.

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Millions who were/have been affected by 2 world wars, Tsunamis, the pandemic etc, would disagree.

The death and resurrection of Jesus were pretty world changing - or do you not think so?

keras said:

Jesus said: As it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be when the Son of Man comes.

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And that's referring to people not heeding the warnings, continuing as though nothing was about to happen, and so on.
THE event will be the return of Jesus. THEN, people will look on him who they pierced, ask the mountains to fall on them etc. They will be able to see for themselves that the Lord they mocked, hated and rejected is real - and it will be too late to repent.
Just as it was when Noah's family went into the ark.

keras said:

What about you and others here posting your end times scenario? Something positive for a change?

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Jesus, the King, WILL return in power and glory - THAT is my "end times scenario".
My part is to be ready, to be faithful, to be found to be serving God and not sitting back saying "my master is taking a long time to return."

keras said:

The Prophets tell us about God's plans, why do we disagree?

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As I've said from the beginning, I disagree with your interpretation of OT prophecies.
I disagree with your practice of saying "this is how it will be - all these random verses from various OT prophets say so."
I disagree that you have the authority to look at an OT prophecy and say, "this hasn't been fulfilled; it refers to this event."
I disagree with the way that you've read into Zechariah 5 - like you had an agenda and you wanted to make the details fit.
I disagree with your position that you are right and everyone else is wrong; meaning your pastor and the "so called" theologians. But when people try to point this out to you, you adopt a martyr like stance and say "that's ok, no one believed the prophets either."

Keras - talking about abrogation of the bible - you just pretend that Isaiah 13 has this massive futurist bit.
But it doesn't.
Isaiah tells us what he's talking about.

A massive army being raised against the Babylonians.
But who are they? The Medes aka the Persians! When is that? Verse 17.

So what on earth are you talking about trying to save your precious "Dark Sun" for the future?
It's clearly and inextricably tied into the still to happen (from Isaiah's point of view) annihilation of Babylon by Persia.
Or about 2500 years ago from our POV.
QED.

It's clear.
Except with you for some reason?
Oh yeah - your 2010 "vision."
Yeah - that worked out just fine didn't it?

Where's the temple Keras?

keras said:

Not very smart. Death can come to anyone at any time.

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Exactly.
So it doesn't matter if you say that Jesus is coming back in 20 years time and you will be in the Holy Land - you may not be alive then.
It doesn't matter if "the fiery wrath" is in a few years, we could be dead by then.

keras said:

The condition is; that we gather and live in the Holy Land. THEN Jesus will appear to His faithful Christian peoples

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Says no one except you.
Are you saying that we can delay the Lord's return simply by never going to live in the Holy Land?

keras said:

That the NC is not yet made, is proved by Hebrews 8:10-12 being unfulfilled.

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Again, so you say. but you haven't replied to my statement, and verses, about God's word being in our hearts now.

I don't know about you, but I am a New Testament (New Covenant) Christian - living after the resurrection and Pentecost, knowing God's forgiveness, assured of being his child and having his Word in my heart.

keras said:

A Covenant was not made with the 12 Disciples.

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The New Covenant is that anyone who comes to Jesus has eternal life, John 3:16, 3:36, 6:40.
Anyone who comes to Jesus and receives him, is a child of God, John 1:12.
That we can know that we are a child of God, Romans 8:16-17.
If anyone confesses their sin, God will forgive them and make them clean, 1 John 1:9.
That Jesus is our Good Shepherd, John 10:11. That he came to give us life, John 10:10 and that no one can snatch us from God's hand, John 10:29.

keras said:

The Disciples are all gone; the NC must be made between Jesus and living people.

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I'm a disciple and I'm still here.
All believers are disciples (learners) and followers.

keras said:

Those things are just the birth pangs of the new age to come. That they are getting closer together, is a sign of the immanence of the end.

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These things have always been happening.
For many people, WWI was the end. For many others, WWII was the end. People throughout history have said, "look, the end is nigh" - look at Harold Camping.

keras said:

How can anyone say that? It means you dismiss all the Prophecy from now until the Return

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I don't believe there is any new prophecy.
I don't dismiss OT prophecy, I just don't interpret it as you do.

You still haven't been honest about Isaiah 13 yet. Answer these 4 questions simple yes or no.

Does it start explaining a massive army against Babylon?

Does it later on answer who that is by mentioning the Medes?

Does it mention the tools of ancient battle, from swords and fire and dashing babies against rocks?

And are the dark sun verses in the middle of all this?

Oh and if you're going to appeal to the destruction of the "whole world" , the word in the Hebrew can refer to land or world. Context tells us.
The context here?
War against specific kingdom.
Therefore - it's land. The whole land was destroyed.
It's just how the Hebrew works.
If you pretend anything else - you actually know that you're kidding yourself!

But with you playing eisegesis every few verses, you don't have to deal with this pesky thing called "context" do you?

You usually just avoid that and get over excited about copying and pasting endless other scenes of battle, and writing all about astronomical events.

But tell me, have you studied ancient Hebrew? Have you studied the way ancient Hebrews used apocalyptic symbolism? Have you at any point in the last 5 years read any of the material I have suggested for you to help you come to terms with these passages?

Have you read any of the non canonical and historical apocalyptic symbolism?

The extra material written 200 BC to 200 AD?

If the answer is no, and you just want to call everyone who does these things swine, then call me a swine!

Because I respect those who bother to do basic hermeneutics BEFORE writing rubbish about the Bible for 5 years!

You're commenting on some fairly tricky passages without even the basic skills of the craft. It's comparable someone trying to make claims from the ancient Greek - without even knowing a word of Greek.

If you honestly read the whole of chapter Isaiah 13 you will see what it is about.

The real question is do you have the character to admit it?

Keras, Keras, Keras.

Before we address your last post, we just need to acknowledge your strict avoidance of the basic comprehension questions above.

Isaiah 13

1. Does Isaiah start explaining a massive army is coming up against Babylon?
ANSWER: YES!

2. Does he later explain it's the Medes?
ANSWER: YES!

3. Does it mention the tools of ancient battle, from swords and fire and dashing babies against rocks?
ANSWER: YES!

4. Are the dark sun verses in the middle of all this?
ANSWER: YES!

For avoiding them, you now get this bonus round.

Do Isaiah and other prophets consistently use the same dark sun images to describe the defeat of other ancient enemies!
YES !

Final: Do you know any Dark Sun verses that are not surrounded by descriptions of other ancient enemies being defeated in ancient battles with ancient weapons?

Now - onto your last post.

People who refuse to believe that anything nasty or any changes to their cozy lifestyle,

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Um, hello? Who is the climate change denier here?

History is full of sudden disasters, empires falling and circumstances changing dramatically.

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Sure is - which is why I think our of our love for God and love for neighbour we should be motivated to be HONEST in our bible reading and stop chasing fantasies that WE somehow have this elusive end times table.

There's work to do. The church has a special duty to protect what it can in the face of climate change.

Isn't the current world situation alarming? How much longer can things go on, with a lot of countries populations way beyond sustainable levels. Here in New Zealand, we are taking up large areas of good farmland for housing, etc. It cannot go on forever.

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No, but precision fermentation could feed us all while we move through the global demographic transition and see the global population numbers stabilise and even decrease due to natural economic forces of development. Who could be against developing nations educating little girls? But decades of demographic research shows that for every 3 years of education, they will have 1 less child! It's about increasing women's education and empowerment and rights, and not seeing them as baby producing factories that might guarantee some labor on the farm as the parents age in a subsistence economy.

But this is my area, not yours!

It is clear to me that our Creator God intends to correct the world gone wrong once again.

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Absolutely - he did it through the cross. He judged ALL evil as he poured out his just wrath against on his Son. Anyone who repents can be saved by trusting in that free gift. Jesus resurrection is a taste of the new world, a sign that the kingdom of God HAS already come - in the new covenant. It's already happened! The new kingdom is already here. Now, but not yet. That's eschatological tension for you!
Oh - but there's still evil in the world?
We must overcome it with prayer and patience and preaching and persuasion and sometimes - even our pain. (Suffering for the gospel.)

Those unjust kings of the earth will cower before the face of God!
Which is what Rev 6 is really all about - but you nerf that into a solar event!
Absolutely astonishingly poor reading!

He has informed those who care to prayerfully look in His Word....

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Yeah, it's so sad that so many people are not as prayerful as you as they 'look into His World' (or their subconscious the night of a suspect kebab in the Middle East in 2010!)

If ONLY the church would repent in sackcloth and ashes and WEEP at their poor prayer lives, their godlessness, their poverty of spirit.

If ONLY the church were not so worldly and materialistic and COMFORTABLE!

Then they might have their hearts broken over their true poverty of spirit, become more passionate about things that matter - and share the gospel and feed the hungry and love their neighbours! I AGREE! I could do with some of this myself...

( Sound of needle scratching across a vinyl album....)

Something about a CME?

Wait, what?

If only people were more prayerful they would see a B-Grade Nicholas Cage Sci-Fi movie in their bibles and avoid reading any theologians on ancient history and hermeneutics, and learn what is ACTUALLY going on? Oh - I see! You're back to your old tricks!

Apparently your explanation is right reading, respect for ancient sources, and good hermeneutics do not help us grow in our theological understanding! It's only those really 'spiritual' people who are as godly as you that will see Nicholas Cage in their bibles!

Again with the patronizing - designing to share your more spiritual insights from on high to us mere mortals.

Boy - sure am glad that we have someone as great as Keras to explain it all to us! Gather around children - ahhh - he's going speak!

Oh - what was that?

2012?

Oh.

And then the Gaza war wouldn't just fade away, but end with a united Muslim war against Israel?

Oh.

And the one Keras knew with absolute certainty - that the temple would be rebuilt and the AOD by early 2026?

Oh.

Yeah, nah, sorry mate but this "prayerful superiority" routine you've got going isn't really working out for ya, is it mate?

keras said:

@eclipsenow & @Strong in Him - You have too much time to spare! You need to find something else to fill in your time, instead of bashing those who you disagree with.

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I'm not bashing you as such; I don't know you. I'm disagreeing with your interpretation of random Scriptures.
As a preacher, who learned and practises exegesis, that is what I do.

keras said:

I say this because I really worry that people who downgrade and refute the end time Prophesies, are making it hard for themselves when things do start to happen.

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That's your interpretation.
IF "things are going to happen", IF we are going to face persecution, opposition etc, it's only what we've been warned about. People will hate and oppose us for our faith.
But however difficult, and painful, any persecution, we have been told that no one can snatch us from the Father's hand, John 10:29. No one can separate us from his love, Romans 8:38-39. The Holy Spirit we have now is a guarantee of our inheritance, 2 Corinthians 5:5. I've no idea what you mean about "making it hard for ourselves". We belong to Jesus and he is with us always.

keras said:

When the Lord sends His fiery wrath, Psalms 11:4-6, the world will never be the same again.
Wait for the Day! Zephaniah 3:8

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The day which should have come in 2012, but - oh no - it didn't?
The day which could have come on Dec 14th? Again, it didn't.

I am waiting for the return of our Lord Jesus who is coming back as he said that he would.
You, yourself, have agreed that any of us could die at any time - which means that we will either meet him when we die or possibly be alive when he returns.

"the Prophets are very consistent in their warnings about a Day when the Lord will dramatically intervene to correct the world."

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Nah. This thread documents how you fail to actually read the prophets!
Isaiah 13 isn't what you say it is!
It just isn't.

It's about God taking on Israel's enemies - and destroying Babylon with the Medes.
The great Mede-Persian empire was about to charge across the ancient world.
God was saying HE was behind that!

"An event similar to what He did in the days of Noah.

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Exactly - when no one new! See - in the Noah story - you and I are not Noah. This is fundamental! This is called "Biblical Theology" - the art of reading the bible correctly through the eyes of God's audience at that time. We are one of the people on the Ark, not the orchestrating saviour figure Noah! We're just along for the ride, trusting in what Noah said and did.

But there's nothing in Jesus warnings about it being like the "Days of Noah" that indicates even his disciples would know the timing of that day - the end - judgement day. But notice how the disciples asked 2 questions? When will the temple end - and will this be the end of all things? Jesus is switching back and forth answering those 2 questions - so we need to be VERY careful in those passages!

"My posting of those warning of, and the results of, this yet to happen worldwide disaster, are not 'making the Word say what I want it to'."

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Is that why you've been so spot on so many times?

"I post scripture as it is Written"

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I could randomly cut out verses.
Toss them in a bucket.
Say a quick mumbo-jumbo prayer over them.
Pluck them out by sheer dumb luck.
Then put them in a line, and construct my OWN narrative!
But it would still be from the "scripture as it is Written."

"I'm just saying what is in the bible," is only what every defensive Christian ever said, ever!

Maybe if you acknowledge your own assumptions and presuppositions?
Discussed some of your analytical techniques?
How you unpacked your Biblical Theology of various passages?
How you ran and justified your Systematic Theology on others?
What you did in your Hermeneutics - as you analysed the use of various ancient Hebrew specific word and symbols - and how the cultural symbolism might have interacted with surrounding cultural influences at the time as the prophet rebuked pagan ideas, or wrote a polemic against them?

Maybe then you might have a case?

But your record isn't good. If I had made the huge predictions and blunders you have, I would be questioning my whole approach and what it meant that I had made these mistakes?

You predicted 2012, The United Muslim Jihad, December 14th, and the AOD in the temple next month.
That's 4 strikes you're out - when the OT only gives you ONE strike!
I would have been MORTIFIED - and taken a few years off this thing to try and read more broadly and get my head together!

Yet you plough on here regardless, heading towards your fifth failed prophecy!

Let me explain something to you. You are not alone. There are about 666 other failed futurists out there I'm aware of! (See what I did with that number?) Like you, they feel they have a sworn duty to IGNORE the tools of good theology and hermeneutics I have outlined above. They sprint through vast swathes of the Old and New Testament, suddenly crashing into various verses and yelling "Aha!" in the middle of the night - and updating their crazy wall.

Us human beings are meaning seeking creatures. We also have a psychological aversion to uncertainty! Friends of mine who wrote "666 and all that" - a short introduction to Amillennial thought - explained that some get fixated on End Times stuff and apocalyptic visions to alleviate stress.

The bottom line? Psychologists have found that apocalyptic thinking serves a profound psychological function. It relieves stress. The mechanism?

Certainty - even of of doom - is better than the horrible feeling of uncertainty!​

You keep telling us that unless we adopt your End Times table, we are going to be psychologically unprepared for the times ahead!
Really? That's so weak! In other words, I believe the gospel - and will according to yourself be saved anyway. That's it! That's all I care about. But you want me chasing around after your blog, reading through it endlessly, believing everything you say - and doing all this in my limited free time because.......?

What I'm questioning is are you SURE you're not attracted to all this because - as a pattern recognition creature yourself - you have a need to be 'certain' about what's coming in these uncertain times?

I've been there. As a teenage Christian - I wanted to know what was coming! I played "Pin the tail on the Anti-Christ" in many late night youth camps, chatting away endlessly about this stuff. Grabbing what books I could. Charging roughshod over the Old Testament - too excited by the latest theories to bother SLOWING DOWN and finding out what the prophets REALLY said!

I've also been there in more secular environmentalism, when I had an environmental awakening 21 years ago in a pretty Doomer group. The parallels in these secular 'scientific prophets of doom' are amazing.

1. Getting a huge sense of personal importance from "knowing the future" - and having a personal quest to warn others.
3. A tendency to look down on the 'sheeple' - those who just go through life working hard, consuming movies and experiences, without 'knowing' the way the prophet does!
4. Wanting a cult-like following, and strict rules about who you can read and who you should not read.
5. Increasingly becoming "Outsiders" in the culture - leading to the psychological descriptor - "Apocalyptic Outsider."
6. Feelings of "Cassandra Syndrome" when people will not accept their message.

Another Truth Bomb for you.
I remember you saying your vision was so astonishing that you argued you could never have come up with this yourself. But we are pattern recognition creatures - so much so that some of us generate 'false positives' for patterns. It's actually NOT that hard to get an idea, and then chase after it through a big book like the bible - and find enough material to support it. After all, that might be why there are so many different denominations! We are pattern recognition creatures after all!
Your pattern? Fire = CME!
Um, in a text describing ancient battles between the gods (stars falling from heaven) and between empires (fire, sword, arrows, babies smashed on rocks) that's not so hard!

Third Truth Bomb!
What was truly awful to behold was the arrogant way you dismissed and condemned friends of mine. People with ACTUAL EXPERTISE in the Hebrew language, Ancient History, Hebrew Symbolism in other non-canonical texts, etc - as being influenced by "worldly wisdom" or worse - being "unclean pigs".

Fourth Truth Bomb!
But what worries me the most is any young people that might sadly take your nonsense seriously. I already know of a few Christians who left the faith when various end times prophets turned out to be fakes.

Although these days I take hope that not too many people are sucked in by yet another dime a dozen end-time theory. On the other hand, the fact that there are so many and they all contradict each other must make some doubt Christianity's truth as well, so there's that to consider.

keras said:

The Bible Prophesies I promote have yet to take place.

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That's because you make them up as you go along!

2012, the United Moslem War, AOD by next month...

keras said:

I pray that people will seriously read them

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Pray that one day you'll stop replying with your 666th "altar call to the Keras Timeline" - and try and reply to the issues put to you above.

When you refuse to do so, but just keep shoving more Altar Calls on us, it might seem to some to be passive aggressive.

keras said:

Lengthy rants and denigration of those who do make a serious attempt

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You didn't make a serious attempt to interpret God's word.
You made a serious attempt to sound like you were a prophet especially gifted from God, and anyone else who tried to interpret God's word and refuse to listen to you were swine!

So please don't play the misunderstood martyr here.

keras said:

to understand Gods plans,

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I have inquired into God's plans.

They are fulfilled in Christ, and will materially manifest when he returns.

When is that? We don't know
We are not told.

We are told about the Persians taking out the Babylonians! You like to pluck that out of context, but it's obvious to anyone who bothers to read that chapter from start to finish, let alone the whole book of Isaiah!

There are consequences for false prophets as well.