Zions New Children

[Strong in Him]

Two Days of the Lord:

In your opinion.

It will NOT be unexpected; heralded by God and the angels and NOT a surprise, as He will Return exactly 1260 days, [42 months] after Satan desecrates the Temple. Daniel 9:27b, Revelation 13:5

Oh well; I've got loads of time then.
No need to be ready, prepared or alert as Jesus taught. The Temple hasn't even been built yet - assuming it is at all - never mind been desecrated by Satan. And we should expect him to come 1260 days after that? Bags of time. Maybe I'll take a break from serving the Lord for a bit - after all, I can repent as soon as I hear that the first brick of the Temple has been laid.
Obviously I don't need to take any notice of his parables about bridegrooms and kings whose return is delayed, and the unprepared bridesmaids and lazy servants who suffered the consequences. How silly of them not to have known, in fact, that they could have worked out when their masters would return and been ready.
[Sarcasm.]

Do you really think Amos 5:18-20 will be like the glorious Return?

The Day of the Lord - as mentioned by Amos and other prophets - was an OT concept.
The Israelites believed that the Day of the Lord was when the Lord would come in power, reward the faithful Israelites; God's chosen, sons of Abraham, and defeat and punish all their enemies. The attitude that, as God's chosen, they would be alright/could not be punished/were in line for receiving some great rewards prevailed throughout the OT. They seemed to believe that they had the right to act as they liked. The prophets said, over and over again, that God could, and would, punish his people for disobeying his laws.
Amos was effectively saying, "why do you long for the Day of the Lord? It won't be sweetness and light for you because you have disobeyed the Lord's commands and broken the covenant." He wanted to wake them out of their smugness and spiritual apathy. Amos wasn't speaking about the return of Jesus. How could he have been; he didn't know him? I doubt he had any concept that God would be born in human form. If he had, he would never have considered that this God/man would be crucified and raised from the dead - never mind that he would return again one day.
Most Jews don't accept that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah. They are still waiting for their Messiah, who will probably, for them, return just as God is punishing all other Gentile nations - i.e us.

The Day of the Lord is a Jewish concept. I am not a Jew, I live under the New Covenant and am waiting for the return of the Lord Jesus.

 

[keras]

[Sarcasm.]

Stupidity.

The Day of the Lord - as mentioned by Amos and other prophets - was an OT concept.

The great Day of the wrath of God and the Lamb, Revelation 6:17, 2 Peter 3:7 & 12, +

The great Day of God Almighty, 1 Thess 4:15-18

I live under the New Covenant and am waiting for the return of the Lord Jesus.

WE Christians have not yet made the new Covenant with the Lord. Hebrews 8:10-12 proves it.

Do you think that nothing special or dramatic will happen before Jesus Returns?

 

[Strong in Him]

Stupidity.

Not at all.
If Jesus isn't returning for several years, we've got loads of time. I'm not going to do any of the stuff that I mentioned - I love Jesus and want to serve him. But if you told a non Christian that they needed to repent to be ready for Jesus' return, they asked when he was coming back and you said, "oh in about 20 years or so", they would ask, "well what's the rush, then?"

WE Christians have not yet made the new Covenant with the Lord. Hebrews 8:10-12 proves it.

Jesus' blood seals the new Covenant.
God's word being in our hearts doesn't refer to learning Scripture - learning Scripture means it is in your mind but doesn't mean that you have accepted it and are living it. All Jewish boys had to learn their Scriptures by heart. It didn't prevent them from sinning and disobeying them.
God's Word is Jesus. Jesus told his disciples to remain IN him and he would remain IN us.
Because of the cross, we are reconciled to, and at peace with, God.
Because of Pentecost, God's Spirit can live IN believers. It is the Holy Spirit who confirms to us that we are God's children, Romans 8:16-17.
Before he died, Jesus said to his disciples, "this is my blood of the new covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins", Matthew 26:28.

Do you think that nothing special or dramatic will happen before Jesus Returns?

Dramatic things are happening all the time - and have been since the ascension.

 

[keras]

But if you told a non Christian that they needed to repent to be ready for Jesus' return, they asked when he was coming back and you said, "oh in about 20 years or so", they would ask, "well what's the rush, then?"

You know very well, that NOW is the time to get saved.
Millions will die before Jesus Returns

Jesus' blood seals the new Covenant.

He has done His part, we have yet to become a cohesive Christian people, to make an everlasting Covenant with the Lord and receive the Blessings as Hebrews 8:10-12 Prophesies.
What Jesus said in Matthew 26:28, was for remembrance of His sacrifice and to look forward to a New Covenant.

Dramatic things are happening all the time - and have been since the ascension.

There has never been another real world changing event since Noah's Flood.
Jesus said: As it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be when the Son of Man comes. An event that must be before Jesus Returns as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

What about you and others here posting your end times scenario? Something positive for a change?
The Prophets tell us about God's plans, why do we disagree?

 

[Strong in Him]

You know very well, that NOW is the time to get saved.

Yes.
But if you told the average non Christian that Jesus wasn't returning for 15-20 years, they would think they could put off making a decision. Especially if they were young and had no thought of dying; that's what I'm saying.

He has done His part, we have yet to become a cohesive Christian people, to make an everlasting Covenant with the Lord and receive the Blessings as Hebrews 8:10-12 Prophesies.

How could someone make a covenant with another person/party if that person/party was nowhere near ready to make a covenant?
Sounds to me like you think it's conditional; that we have to do something to earn it.

What Jesus said in Matthew 26:28, was for remembrance of His sacrifice and to look forward to a New Covenant.

He didn't say that.
He said "this is my blood OF the new covenant," not "in anticipation of the new covenant".

There has never been another real world changing event since Noah's Flood.

Millions who were/have been affected by 2 world wars, Tsunamis, the pandemic etc, would disagree.

The death and resurrection of Jesus were pretty world changing - or do you not think so?

Jesus said: As it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be when the Son of Man comes.

And that's referring to people not heeding the warnings, continuing as though nothing was about to happen, and so on.
THE event will be the return of Jesus. THEN, people will look on him who they pierced, ask the mountains to fall on them etc. They will be able to see for themselves that the Lord they mocked, hated and rejected is real - and it will be too late to repent.
Just as it was when Noah's family went into the ark.

What about you and others here posting your end times scenario? Something positive for a change?

Jesus, the King, WILL return in power and glory - THAT is my "end times scenario".
My part is to be ready, to be faithful, to be found to be serving God and not sitting back saying "my master is taking a long time to return."

The Prophets tell us about God's plans, why do we disagree?

As I've said from the beginning, I disagree with your interpretation of OT prophecies.
I disagree with your practice of saying "this is how it will be - all these random verses from various OT prophets say so."
I disagree that you have the authority to look at an OT prophecy and say, "this hasn't been fulfilled; it refers to this event."
I disagree with the way that you've read into Zechariah 5 - like you had an agenda and you wanted to make the details fit.
I disagree with your position that you are right and everyone else is wrong; meaning your pastor and the "so called" theologians. But when people try to point this out to you, you adopt a martyr like stance and say "that's ok, no one believed the prophets either."

 

[keras]

Yes.
But if you told the average non Christian that Jesus wasn't returning for 15-20 years, they would think they could put off making a decision. Especially if they were young and had no thought of dying; that's what I'm saying.

Not very smart. Death can come to anyone at any time.

How could someone make a covenant with another person/party if that person/party was nowhere near ready to make a covenant?
Sounds to me like you think it's conditional; that we have to do something to earn it.

The condition is; that we gather and live in the Holy Land. THEN Jesus will appear to His faithful Christian peoples and make the new Covenant.
2 Thess 1:10, Revelation 14:1
That the NC is not yet made, is proved by Hebrews 8:10-12 being unfulfilled. The Blessings to follow it, which you fail to address.
Also stated in Jeremiah 31:31-34, in the context of the Lords faithful people being gathered into the Holy Land. Jeremiah 31:8

He said "this is my blood OF the new covenant," not "in anticipation of the new covenant".

A Covenant was not made with the 12 Disciples. We have Communion in our Church services as a remembrance of Jesus Sacrifice.
The Disciples are all gone; the NC must be made between Jesus and living people. Ezekiel 34:25 says it, in the context of His people in the Holy Land, a Covenant for their peace and prosperity.

Millions who were/have been affected by 2 world wars, Tsunamis, the pandemic etc, would disagree.

Those things are just the birth pangs of the new age to come. That they are getting closer together, is a sign of the immanence of the end.
They are not worldwide, as the Flood was [maybe just the area of human habitation at that time] but the Day of the Lords wrath will cover all the earth. Zephaniah 3:8, Revelation 6:12-17

THE event will be the return of Jesus.

How can anyone say that? It means you dismiss all the Prophecy from now until the Return and force into a one day event.
Simply crazy and a total abrogation of most of the Bible.

"that's ok, no one believed the prophets either."

Another truth, proved correct by Daniel 12:10b and Matthew 11:25-26

 

[eclipsenow]

Keras - talking about abrogation of the bible - you just pretend that Isaiah 13 has this massive futurist bit.
But it doesn't.
Isaiah tells us what he's talking about.

A massive army being raised against the Babylonians.
But who are they? The Medes aka the Persians! When is that? Verse 17.

So what on earth are you talking about trying to save your precious "Dark Sun" for the future?
It's clearly and inextricably tied into the still to happen (from Isaiah's point of view) annihilation of Babylon by Persia.
Or about 2500 years ago from our POV.
QED.

It's clear.
Except with you for some reason?
Oh yeah - your 2010 "vision."
Yeah - that worked out just fine didn't it?

Where's the temple Keras?

 

[keras]

But it doesn't.

But it does.:
Isaiah 13:6-13 Cry out: for the Day of the Lord is at hand, it will come in a mighty destruction. Fear will grip everyone, men will lose courage at the coming disaster. That cruel Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath is coming to reduce all the earth to a desolation and to destroy the evil and godless people on it. It will be a Day of darkness, on the day that the Lord brings disaster onto the world and due punishment to the wicked. He will put an end to arrogance and will humble the pride of the ruthless. Humans will become as scarce as fine gold, on the Day that the heavens will be moved and the earth shaken from its place, at the wrath of the Lord, in the Day of His blazing anger. Ref. REB, some verses abridged.

This clearly stated Prophecy has not yet happened. To think it has, is simply avoidance and rejection of Gods warning to His people.
The new Temple will be built by - men who will come from far away.... Zechariah 6:15

 

[Strong in Him]

Not very smart. Death can come to anyone at any time.

Exactly.
So it doesn't matter if you say that Jesus is coming back in 20 years time and you will be in the Holy Land - you may not be alive then.
It doesn't matter if "the fiery wrath" is in a few years, we could be dead by then.

The condition is; that we gather and live in the Holy Land. THEN Jesus will appear to His faithful Christian peoples

Says no one except you.
Are you saying that we can delay the Lord's return simply by never going to live in the Holy Land?

That the NC is not yet made, is proved by Hebrews 8:10-12 being unfulfilled.

Again, so you say. but you haven't replied to my statement, and verses, about God's word being in our hearts now.

I don't know about you, but I am a New Testament (New Covenant) Christian - living after the resurrection and Pentecost, knowing God's forgiveness, assured of being his child and having his Word in my heart.

A Covenant was not made with the 12 Disciples.

The New Covenant is that anyone who comes to Jesus has eternal life, John 3:16, 3:36, 6:40.
Anyone who comes to Jesus and receives him, is a child of God, John 1:12.
That we can know that we are a child of God, Romans 8:16-17.
If anyone confesses their sin, God will forgive them and make them clean, 1 John 1:9.
That Jesus is our Good Shepherd, John 10:11. That he came to give us life, John 10:10 and that no one can snatch us from God's hand, John 10:29.

The Disciples are all gone; the NC must be made between Jesus and living people.

I'm a disciple and I'm still here.
All believers are disciples (learners) and followers.

Those things are just the birth pangs of the new age to come. That they are getting closer together, is a sign of the immanence of the end.

These things have always been happening.
For many people, WWI was the end. For many others, WWII was the end. People throughout history have said, "look, the end is nigh" - look at Harold Camping.

How can anyone say that? It means you dismiss all the Prophecy from now until the Return

I don't believe there is any new prophecy.
I don't dismiss OT prophecy, I just don't interpret it as you do.

 

[eclipsenow]

You still haven't been honest about Isaiah 13 yet. Answer these 4 questions simple yes or no.

Does it start explaining a massive army against Babylon?

Does it later on answer who that is by mentioning the Medes?

Does it mention the tools of ancient battle, from swords and fire and dashing babies against rocks?

And are the dark sun verses in the middle of all this?

Oh and if you're going to appeal to the destruction of the "whole world" , the word in the Hebrew can refer to land or world. Context tells us.
The context here?
War against specific kingdom.
Therefore - it's land. The whole land was destroyed.
It's just how the Hebrew works.
If you pretend anything else - you actually know that you're kidding yourself!

But with you playing eisegesis every few verses, you don't have to deal with this pesky thing called "context" do you?

You usually just avoid that and get over excited about copying and pasting endless other scenes of battle, and writing all about astronomical events.

But tell me, have you studied ancient Hebrew? Have you studied the way ancient Hebrews used apocalyptic symbolism? Have you at any point in the last 5 years read any of the material I have suggested for you to help you come to terms with these passages?

Have you read any of the non canonical and historical apocalyptic symbolism?

The extra material written 200 BC to 200 AD?

If the answer is no, and you just want to call everyone who does these things swine, then call me a swine!

Because I respect those who bother to do basic hermeneutics BEFORE writing rubbish about the Bible for 5 years!

You're commenting on some fairly tricky passages without even the basic skills of the craft. It's comparable someone trying to make claims from the ancient Greek - without even knowing a word of Greek.

If you honestly read the whole of chapter Isaiah 13 you will see what it is about.

The real question is do you have the character to admit it?