Why Is It So Hard for Christians to Talk About Justice and Greed?

fhansen · Friday at 9:03 PM

timothyu said:
The message did not remain the same . The Kingdom of the Father was abandoned as the gentile church aligned itself with the world of man. Two opposing ideologies cannot exist as one and it certainly wasn't the Roman Empire that lived by the two commandments.

Sure it did, to one who knows church history-along with knowing their own, personal, failings. There are times when church members/leaders behaved badly, as peope will, while others behaved excellently. Those behaving badly didn't heed church teachings, certainly not the teaching to love. But the teachings themselves were good. There's a principle involved, related in Matt 23:2-3

“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

timewerx · 2025-12-13T01:59:50-0600

timothyu said:
Ironically, if the rich were to spread their wealth among all the poor, they would have it back again in no time. Even the poor (unless in spirit) have no concept of how to beat the system.

It's simple really, it's how far you are willing to devaluate the value of others (what you're buying) in order to sell at a profit.

Buying properties as cheap as possible, exploiting other's misery or miserable conditions.

And how far you're willing to perform for people who do these things.

I'm not criticizing Christians who do these things. We live in a crooked world are forced to do crooked things in order to have food at the table. Just don't add insult to injury by treating deviousness and greed as badge of honor to show everyone and encourage others to do the same.

Given we all work for the crooked system, we are just like the tax collector in the Bible and they don't take pride in what they do. At least the tax collectors weren't like the Pharisees who pride in their corrupt religious order.

Mercy Shown · 2025-12-13T11:34:02-0600

fhansen said:
The only thing I'd add is that, in order to really get the things done that justice and love demand, people with those personal objectives must often join together, in a social context and united effort IOW. And with no grandstanding required or desired.

Yes, it is called The Church.

timothyu · 2025-12-13T11:57:08-0600

Mercy Shown said:
Yes, it is called The Church.

Right and not to be mistaken for the Institution.

RDKirk · 2025-12-13T12:15:17-0600

Mercy Shown said:
Yes, it is called The Church.

The Body of Christ.

fhansen · 2025-12-13T12:26:37-0600

Mercy Shown said:
Yes, it is called The Church.

Yes, the Church must at the very least proclaim the need, the right moral direction. And then make effort to fulfill those needs as possible. And support efforts to correct injustices wherever those efforts may arise from. And even the Church can't be immune to scrutinization, filled with us imperfect humans as it is.

timothyu · 2025-12-13T12:32:32-0600

fhansen said:
Yes, the Church must at the very least proclaim the need, the right moral direction.

The Institution certainly slipped up a few years back when it abandoned the Kingdom to rejoin the world of man by way of the Roman Empire. Hardly the right moral direction.

fhansen · 2025-12-13T13:16:24-0600

timothyu said:
The Institution certainly slipped up a few years back when it abandoned the Kingdom to rejoin the world of man by way of the Roman Empire. Hardly the right moral direction.

Maybe you could elaborate on this a bit more, as to timing and actions of the insitution, and most importantly, how teachimgs were changed.

timothyu · 2025-12-13T13:26:08-0600

fhansen said:
Maybe you could elaborate on this a bit more, as to timing and actions of the insitution, and most importantly, how teachimgs were changed.

Not changed but dropped in order to fit back into the world of man. Two opposing kingdoms with opposing values, one servitude to God and each other , the other selfish. You didn't see the Empire suddenly start following the Will of God did you nor since in any nation. What you saw was the religious instituion form a government of its own over the people, based on the principles of man and previous governments, not God. They sold out and all that came after never righted that wrong. They accepted the offer that Jesus had rejected in the desert. It matters not if today we see Christianity involved in politics for they both are of the same kingdom and it is not God's. Any wonder God will have to correct this by Himself as man continually refuses to change (repent) and do so, while using God to meet their own ends?

timewerx · 2025-12-13T14:50:52-0600

"Sound financial plan" means investing on winners.

Social justice also means investing on the losers.

Investing on the poor means you're not getting your money back. Giving without expecting anything in return. A total loss. Not just someone who is poor but also someone who have very little potential like someone who isn't smart. A losing investment.

Many Christians just can't wrap their head around such thing. Perhaps comfort, prestige, and the power to buy and sell is far too addictive to let go.

fhansen · 2025-12-13T16:26:34-0600

timothyu said:
Not changed but dropped in order to fit back into the world of man. Two opposing kingdoms with opposing values, one servitude to God and each other , the other selfish. You didn't see the Empire suddenly start following the Will of God did you nor since in any nation. What you saw was the religious instituion form a government of its own over the people, based on the principles of man and previous governments, not God. They sold out and all that came after never righted that wrong. They accepted the offer that Jesus had rejected in the desert. It matters not if today we see Christianity involved in politics for they both are of the same kingdom and it is not God's. Any wonder God will have to correct this by Himself as man continually refuses to change (repent) and do so, while using God to meet their own ends?

Ok, and what teachings were dropped? I mean, to this day gobs of people taught by the insitutionend up with all kinds of inspiration to do God's will, advance His kingdom, regardless of what others many or may no do.

fhansen · 2025-12-13T16:34:53-0600

timothyu said:
Not changed but dropped in order to fit back into the world of man. Two opposing kingdoms with opposing values, one servitude to God and each other , the other selfish. You didn't see the Empire suddenly start following the Will of God did you nor since in any nation. What you saw was the religious instituion form a government of its own over the people, based on the principles of man and previous governments, not God. They sold out and all that came after never righted that wrong. They accepted the offer that Jesus had rejected in the desert. It matters not if today we see Christianity involved in politics for they both are of the same kingdom and it is not God's. Any wonder God will have to correct this by Himself as man continually refuses to change (repent) and do so, while using God to meet their own ends?

Ok, and what teachings were dropped? I mean, to this day gobs of people taught by the insitution end up equipped with all kinds of inspiration to do God's will, advance His kingdom, regardless of what others many or may no do.

timothyu · 2025-12-13T16:37:38-0600

fhansen said:
Ok, and what teachings were dropped?

The Kingdom gospel was replaced with the salvation gospel. There was no longer another Kingdom to rival the Empire and the Empire no longer needed to serve God or each other including enemies. It was free to carry on, business as usual. So it wasn't the Empire that changed to serve God but the religious institution that changed to serve the Empire and follow the traditional ways of man. Like I said it accepted all this can be yours rather than reject it as Jesus had done.

linux.poet · 2025-12-13T17:07:40-0600

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fhansen · 2025-12-13T20:29:53-0600

timothyu said:
The Kingdom gospel was replaced with the salvation gospel. There was no longer another Kingdom to rival the Empire and the Empire no longer needed to serve God or each other including enemies. It was free to carry on, business as usual. So it wasn't the Empire that changed to serve God but the religious institution that changed to serve the Empire and follow the traditional ways of man. Like I said it accepted all this can be yours rather than reject it as Jesus had done.

The notion that the kingdom might be fully realized here on earth by God working through His people had its day for many years. Ain't gonna happen; no heaven on earth. It's what we should strive for nonetheless, while understanding that eternal life beings here but is only fully consummated in the next life.

Why Is It So Hard for Christians to Talk About Justice and Greed?

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