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Wisdom of Sirach

JM

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"Pleasant speech gains more friends for itself, and a sweet-speaking tongue will multiply pleasant exchanges. Let those who are at peace with you be many, but let only one in a thousand be your advisor. If you make friends, test them thoroughly and don't trust them quickly. Some are friends when it is convenient, but they won't stay around during hard times. There are friends who turn into enemies, and they will reveal your disgraceful arguments. There are friends who are companions at your table, but they won't stay during hard times. They will act as if your belongings are theirs, and they will be bold toward your household slaves. If you are brought low, they will be against you, and they will abandon you. Stay away from your enemies, and be careful with your friends. Trustworthy friends are a strong shelter; whoever finds one has found a treasure. Trustworthy friends have no price, and no one can estimate their worth. Trustworthy friends are life's medicine, and those who fear the Lord will find them. Those who fear the Lord will direct their friendships well, because they will associate with people of like mind." Wisdom of Sirach 6:5-17
 

Shane R

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The Book of Common Prayer calls Sirach 'Ecclesiasticus'. I was at a clergy retreat in Waxahachie, Texas some years ago (which is where my profile pic was taken) and the appointed OT lesson for Morning Prayer was from the 43rd chapter of Ecclesiasticus. The host had invited some guys from Dallas Theological Seminary, which is Baptist, for the day and they were thoroughly flummoxed -blubbering about how Ecclesiastes only has 12 chapters. Those guys were very rude, insolent, and obnoxious. For purportedly educated individuals, they were pretty ignorant.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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The Book of Common Prayer calls Sirach 'Ecclesiasticus'. I was at a clergy retreat in Waxahachie, Texas some years ago (which is where my profile pic was taken) and the appointed OT lesson for Morning Prayer was from the 43rd chapter of Ecclesiasticus. The host had invited some guys from Dallas Theological Seminary, which is Baptist, for the day and they were thoroughly flummoxed -blubbering about how Ecclesiastes only has 12 chapters. Those guys were very rude, insolent, and obnoxious. For purportedly educated individuals, they were pretty ignorant.
Sounds about right. LOL.
 
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RileyG

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I'm not a Lutheran, but I absolutely love this book of the Old Testament, coming from a RC who officially has it in their canon. :D
 
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RileyG

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The Book of Common Prayer calls Sirach 'Ecclesiasticus'. I was at a clergy retreat in Waxahachie, Texas some years ago (which is where my profile pic was taken) and the appointed OT lesson for Morning Prayer was from the 43rd chapter of Ecclesiasticus. The host had invited some guys from Dallas Theological Seminary, which is Baptist, for the day and they were thoroughly flummoxed -blubbering about how Ecclesiastes only has 12 chapters. Those guys were very rude, insolent, and obnoxious. For purportedly educated individuals, they were pretty ignorant.
They probably weren't aware the books of the apocrypha.
 
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Shane R

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They probably weren't aware the books of the apocrypha.
Which is indefensible for a group of people attempting to portray themselves as Christian intellectuals.
 
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RileyG

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Which is indefensible for a group of people attempting to portray themselves as Christian intellectuals.
Yeah that makes sense. I'm also aware of other books not included in the Catholic canon (such as 3 & 4 Maccabees, Enoch etc).
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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why did Martin Luther removed them?
Well, he did not; when Lutherans here transitioned to English, the available translation was the "Protestant" KJV (which originally included these books as well) Here is some additional information (the whole article can be found here: The Apocrypha, Early Church Councils, and Martin Luther - Shepherd of the Hills Lutheran Church ).

Luther (1480-1546)
During his lifetime, Luther translated the Bible into German. His translation did include the Apocrypha; so Luther did not reject the Apocrypha. What Luther did that was novel was his placement of the Apocrypha: he placed them between the two testaments. This tradition of placing the Apocrypha between the two testaments helped set in place two views of thought:
  1. Positive: The Apocrypha was a secondary category of books within the Bible. This was nothing new, and may, in truth, have helped better understand the Apocrypha as deuterocanon and/or anagignoskomena.
  1. Negative: By putting all the Apocrypha together instead of interspersing them as before, Luther helped set up a churchly culture that could later more-easily remove the Apocrypha altogether from the Bible. And this largely took place in the Bibles Protestant used in the 1800s (1900s for German Lutherans who were transitioning to English).
Luther’s most-famous quotation about the Apocrypha comes from his preface to the Apocrypha in his German translation of the Bible: “These books are not held equal to the Scriptures, but are useful and good to read.”
Yet, Luther’s view of Scripture is more complex than today’s simple yes-or-no approach. Luther’s view was more catholic than the average Christian has today. Ralph Bohlmann in Criteria of Biblical Canonicity, wrote:
In both Testaments Luther thus regarded a number of books to be of lesser authority than the chief books. But did inferiority mean non-canonicity? The answer is not simple, for in spite of Luther’s negative attitude toward such books, they were included in every edition of Luther’s Bible published during his lifetime (and for many years thereafter). If the disputed books were not in some sense “biblical,” it is difficult to understand why Luther neither eliminated them from his Bible nor added other useful apocryphal writings to each Testament. Moreover, his language at least occasionally suggests that these books remain “Scripture,” as, for example, when he contrasts them with “all other Scripture.” [pg. 120]
So we find that Luther included the apocryphal books in his Die Bibel. He did not consider them equal in authority to canonical Scripture, and held they should not be used to define Christian doctrine. In other words, Luther saw them as secondary, yet still worthy of being read, as anagignoskomena.
Although Luther’s denigration of the Apocrypha was atypical, his views were still within the norm of the Church catholic in that he treated the Apocrypha as biblical but not canonical, not for making or creating doctrine.
 
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