The Fall of the West (It's Happening Now)

stevevw · Nov 19, 2025

timothyu said:
Wonder if the Golden Rule will start trending with the newest generation. Things tend to go full circle,

I think so. You don't have to be a Christian to see the fighting and division of the current generation to realise something is wrong. It would make anyone think "Lets go back to the drawing board because maybe we missed something in the instruction manual because whatever they are doing, it ain't working" lol.

There is some truth that this generation are turning back to tradition and the church.

Religious revival: Why young people around the world are finding faith again
From digital spirituality to gendered divides, faith seems to offer meaning and identity where secular culture has fallen short.

Religious revival: Why young people around the world are finding faith again | Lowy Institute

From digital spirituality to gendered divides, faith seems to offer meaning and identity where secular culture has fallen short.

www.lowyinstitute.org

pc_76 · 2025-11-27T21:42:58-0600

stevevw said:
Its too late and was always going to be this way. In fact I believe it has taken a giant step towards that end. I can see it in my own lifetime in how people have rejected God and chaos has resulted.

But remember though God allows such things there is a limit. Remember S & G and even the Egyptians and even the Hebrews when they rejected God this set off a series of bad stuff happening. Usually it was through natural disasters. But I believe the earth is also moving towards this end and is groaning and shifting as evil is thrust upon it.

It all goes hand in hand and humans have cultivated their own destruction. We will see many great disasters even topling great idols and icons of the world. Eathquakes and eruptions as the earth shifts into a time of upheavel. But also fighting in the streets and rebellion and hate and chaos.

This is what happens when we reject God. Its always been the same and we can predict it. I think now in the west we have moved more away from God than at anytime since Christ. We are now in the Godless period once again.

But this time its Empire and perhaps even on a worldwide scale and not just a city or people warring. But there are dark principalities rising up against each other.

Christians are together and seperate from this in Christ. Like the early church under the Roman pagan world. We will be the light to the world in this in all this darkness.

At least natural disasters are honest. Nature doesn't discriminate among specific targets, unlike man.

pc_76 · 2025-11-27T21:50:28-0600

timothyu said:
God has battled adversity since before the creation of our universe. Again, as I have said, there is a necessary plan in place to set things right but that is often overlooked because it is hard for us to comprehend the time required to have both elohim and man properly adapt to the knowledge of good and evil. Remember, creation is made up of opposites and for elohim and man alike, and for both to be servants to God rather than self-serving despots, we all must come to terms in dealing with this knowledge without trying to assume control. It is God's plan, but He is timeless while to us it seems forever for His plan to come to fruition.

As a side note but of extreme relevance, we can look back on the Nuremberg trials after WW II. It focused on the leaders of Nazi Germany and a psychiatrist that was charged with determining whether they were sane enough to stand trial for their crimes. He came to the stunning reality that they were indeed sane and intelligent, cool and calm, yet extremely evil and manipulative, turning the concept of evil on its head. These men saw their thinking and leadership as superior and godlike. This, of course corresponds with how the powers and principalities, the rebellious elohim, have always influenced leaders to control the people and to do the will of God's elohim adversaries. It happened pre-flood, post Babel, and all through time until now as these rebellious elohim exert their influence upon willing mankind. It produced wars among nations but there has been a frightening change.

We now live in an age where the electric power of the air fuels communication. Turn on the tv, radio or internet. Media has become the new elohim influenced leader of humanity, and humanity itself has taken on the character of those former Nazi leaders. We've gone from isolated warring nations to a global warring of leaderless people against people, not of nations but even in the home. It only took 50 years for this to happen and today it is not just the leaders but the people themselves that have taken on this evil attitude in their continuing and growing support of divisiveness and self-authoritarianism. The obvious result of this will be world-wide annihilation of each other and we not longer follow leaders but all assume the role of evil itself in pursuing this divisiveness and hating family and neighbour, contrary to the will of God. It's all part of God's greater plan but it ain't gonna be pretty as the grain is separated from the tares.

What is the "self-authoritarianism" you mean? The Bible has rules and commandments, and Jesus himself says that any mild deviation is lukewarm and therefore, they are not saved at all and might as well have committed the original sin. How are the implications of this not spiritual authoritarianism?

pc_76 · 2025-11-27T22:00:19-0600

FredVB said:
I believe Christians generally will be blindsided. There were all those following Trump blindly to get him in office, and they are in denial of what is happening to the world, to let it continue as is, because any crisis from it does not fit their eschatology, they are so sure theirs is the right understanding. I can see how that will go, and God hates the destruction to this earth, why will God stop the collapse of that which is destructive?
Revelation 11:18

Because there are innocent people within those places that have to shoulder the burden just because everybody else surrounding them has turned away from God.

It's always the innocent little guy that gets disadvantaged while the spiritual world battle between good and evil is waged. It's just like politics.

timothyu · 2025-11-27T22:49:29-0600

pc_76 said:
What is the "self-authoritarianism" you mean?

Mankind loves to proclaim themselves above others, even elected leaders who lets it go to their heads. Few, other than maybe a man like Carter as an example, do otherwise. But even siblings act the same. Someone is always power tripping.

Robban · 2025-11-28T00:11:47-0600

timothyu said:
Mankind loves to proclaim themselves above others, even elected leaders who lets it go to their heads. Few, other than maybe a man like Carter as an example, do otherwise. But even siblings act the same. Someone is always power tripping.

Humpty dumpty sat on a wall, humpty dumpty had a great fall.

One question I have heard asked is," What was an egg doing on a wall in the first place?"

stevevw · 2025-11-28T02:44:41-0600

pc_76 said:
At least natural disasters are honest. Nature doesn't discriminate among specific targets, unlike man.

Yes and no. I think natural disasters in the true sense being just how nature works is not due to any direct cause by man. Though one could argue that any natural disater is the result of the fall overall.

But there aremany disasters that may have been natural but were the result of mankinds actions or lack of. Such as man made climate change. Or just playing around with nature that we create some virus or disease that wipes out crops. Or caused earth quakes because we destablised the land.

But then I also think that just like mankind is fallen and perhaps there is some entropy to our degrading in the genome. So it is with all creation. The fall leads to a gradual deterioration of everything that it is winding down or falling apart. That it is weakened and more supceptible to disasters or a particular kind.

I know they have done research with Consciousness. They have people wired up to machines to read the brain patterns and each time there is a big disasters the graphs spike beforehand. As though like some animals we percieve a disaster coming in some part of the conscious or subconscious brain.

I believe there is a connection and I think if humans are evil and live this out then this also affects the earth and reality itself. So when evil gets to a certain level it also influences the earths stability and brings consequences as a result.

When the ancients believed that this or that disaster came as a result of defying God then this was really the case. It was not that a disaster just coinciently happened as a result. It was the result of evil manifested in the earth and spewed out upon the evil doers. Almost like evil attracts disaster.

Robban · 2025-11-28T03:37:56-0600

stevevw said:
Yes and no. I think natural disasters in the true sense being just how nature works is not due to any direct cause by man. Though one could argue that any natural disater is the result of the fall overall.

But there aremany disasters that may have been natural but were the result of mankinds actions or lack of. Such as man made climate change. Or just playing around with nature that we create some virus or disease that wipes out crops. Or caused earth quakes because we destablised the land.

But then I also think that just like mankind is fallen and perhaps there is some entropy to our degrading in the genome. So it is with all creation. The fall leads to a gradual deterioration of everything that it is winding down or falling apart. That it is weakened and more supceptible to disasters or a particular kind.

I know they have done research with Consciousness. They have people wired up to machines to read the brain patterns and each time there is a big disasters the graphs spike beforehand. As though like some animals we percieve a disaster coming in some part of the conscious or subconscious brain.

I believe there is a connection and I think if humans are evil and live this out then this also affects the earth and reality itself. So when evil gets to a certain level it also influences the earths stability and brings consequences as a result.

When the ancients believed that this or that disaster came as a result of defying God then this was really the case. It was not that a disaster just coinciently happened as a result. It was the result of evil manifested in the earth and spewed out upon the evil doers. Almost like evil attracts disaster.

If those who were wired up percieved disaster they would have done everything to get out of the way.

In the case of a tsunami animals flee to higher ground, an elephant chained to a tree with fire on its way will pull up the tree.

Not so with man, that is why there were prophets sent to warn, Nineveh is an exampel.

The Word of God is not a bunch of stories, it is living and does not change.

HavaYah is an attribute of the Almighty that transcends the laws of nature.

Jerry N. · 2025-11-28T03:43:18-0600

Robban said:
Humpty dumpty sat on a wall, humpty dumpty had a great fall.

One question I have heard asked is," What was an egg doing on a wall in the first place?"

Humpty dumpty was probably a cannon. “From 1996, the website of the Colchester tourist board attributed the origin of the rhyme to a cannon recorded as used from the church of St Mary-at-the-Walls by the Royalist defenders in the siege of 1648.[24] In 1648, Colchester was a walled town with a castle and several churches and was protected by the city wall. The story given was that a large cannon, which the website claimed was colloquially called Humpty Dumpty, was strategically placed on the wall. A shot from a Parliamentary cannon succeeded in damaging the wall beneath Humpty Dumpty, which caused the cannon to tumble to the ground. The Royalists (or Cavaliers, "all the King's men") attempted to raise Humpty Dumpty on to another part of the wall, but the cannon was so heavy that "All the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put Humpty together again".” There are other theories, but I think this is the best. Humpty Dumpty - Wikipedia

stevevw · 2025-11-28T09:06:17-0600

Robban said:
If those who were wired up percieved disaster they would have done everything to get out of the way.

I don't think these experiments are done near the actual disasters. Its part of the Global Neuronal Workspace Theory (GNWT). An ongoing experiment on consciousness.

Fame in the Brain—Global Workspace Theories of Consciousness

GWTs posit that information becomes conscious when it gains the brain's attentional spotlight and is broadcast to a global workspace. Experts like GWT; the media have other ideas.

www.psychologytoday.com

Robban said:
In the case of a tsunami animals flee to higher ground, an elephant chained to a tree with fire on its way will pull up the tree.

Yes and they can sense this well before humans can. The same with earthquakes. Birds especially can sense certain global events. Perhaps something to do with a connection to electromagnetism. From memory birds have some sort of quantum vision that allows them to circumnavigate around the globe.

But we don't fully understand these more transcedent aspects at the quantum or consciousness level and what influence this has. If as a Christian you believe in the spiritual aspect as a real influence in the world then this is within a similar realm and may be connected.

Robban said:
Not so with man, that is why there were prophets sent to warn, Nineveh is an exampel.

What about how the prophets and disciples ect were led by the Holy spirit. To even die for a God that people would say was just a imaginary voice in someones head. Yet the spirit instructs, guides and manifests real physical outcomes in the world.

Atheists would call this imagination or delusion. Yet millions of Christians would testify to it being a real phenomena in the world. In fact as a species we humans have a deep history of religious belief as a real phenomena that has changed the world in real ways.

This dimension if you like is as part of humans as eating food for sustigen. One is for the body and the other for the soul. Both a reality.

Robban said:
The Word of God is not a bunch of stories, it is living and does not change.

Yes but the basic instinct if you could call it that. Or maybe knowledge. This is human wide regardless of what religious story. An attempt to express something inherently known in all humans. Its just that some express this in human made religions or ideas.

Thats why you see ideas like the Creation and Flood myth repeated in most cultures. Why you seen sacrifices made before God called Abraham to sacrifice as humans already knew the need to sacrifice to gods.

Its just that the biblical God made Himself known as the one True God that everyone was looking for.

Robban said:
HavaYah is an attribute of the Almighty that transcends the laws of nature.

What is HavaYah.

Robban · 2025-11-28T11:11:50-0600

stevevw said:
I don't think these experiments are done near the actual disasters. Its part of the Global Neuronal Workspace Theory (GNWT). An ongoing experiment on consciousness.

Fame in the Brain—Global Workspace Theories of Consciousness

GWTs posit that information becomes conscious when it gains the brain's attentional spotlight and is broadcast to a global workspace. Experts like GWT; the media have other ideas.

www.psychologytoday.com

Yes and they can sense this well before humans can. The same with earthquakes. Birds especially can sense certain global events. Perhaps something to do with a connection to electromagnetism. From memory birds have some sort of quantum vision that allows them to circumnavigate around the globe.

But we don't fully understand these more transcedent aspects at the quantum or consciousness level and what influence this has. If as a Christian you believe in the spiritual aspect as a real influence in the world then this is within a similar realm and may be connected.

What about how the prophets and disciples ect were led by the Holy spirit. To even die for a God that people would say was just a imaginary voice in someones head. Yet the spirit instructs, guides and manifests real physical outcomes in the world.

Atheists would call this imagination or delusion. Yet millions of Christians would testify to it being a real phenomena in the world. In fact as a species we humans have a deep history of religious belief as a real phenomena that has changed the world in real ways.

This dimension if you like is as part of humans as eating food for sustigen. One is for the body and the other for the soul. Both a reality.

Yes but the basic instinct if you could call it that. Or maybe knowledge. This is human wide regardless of what religious story. An attempt to express something inherently known in all humans. Its just that some express this in human made religions or ideas.

Thats why you see ideas like the Creation and Flood myth repeated in most cultures. Why you seen sacrifices made before God called Abraham to sacrifice as humans already knew the need to sacrifice to gods.

Its just that the biblical God made Himself known as the one True God that everyone was looking for.

What is HavaYah.

Havayah, in short, based on the teachings of the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem M. Schneerson..

The Torah portion of Vayeira begins with G-d revealing to Moshe His Ineffable Name Havayah.

G-d then goes on to tell Moshe that He did not make this name known to Avraham, Yitzchak, or Ya`akov.

Rashi comments that G-d was thereby implying that "He did not make Himself known to them with His unlimited attribute of truth."

This in short there is much more.

btw, I have copied this.

Edit, missed " Lubavtcher"

timothyu · 2025-11-28T11:57:01-0600

Robban said:
One question I have heard asked is," What was an egg doing on a wall in the first place?"

Perhaps he was a Watcher. They fell also.

Robban · 2025-11-28T12:37:38-0600

timothyu said:
Perhaps he was a Watcher. They fell also.

Well, I was thinking more of ego, when the ego becomes puffed up and sets itself up where it does not belong,

it will fall, and also how fragile man is, like dropping an egg.

The Fall of the West (It's Happening Now)

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