The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

Stopped_lurking · 2025-11-27T11:07:09-0600

rjs330 said:
They have a very good track record.

Where is it published then?

rjs330 said:
If you want to know more you should talk to them.

I want their published results.

rjs330 said:
The other alternatives do NOT have a good track record. That's what the systematic reviews have shown. And the reason Europe backed completely off rhe track they were on. They moved to any medicalization being done solely in a research oriented program. And not every kid gets accepted into the program. Its tightly controlled. Its going to take MANY years to determine if any medicalization is actually effective and safe.

Stopped_lurking · 2025-11-27T11:08:03-0600

RileyG said:
The “lie” is using feminine pronouns for a biological male or vice versa. Some people don’t play that game.

So what is your preferred method of ascertaining sex before you use any pronouns?

RileyG · 2025-11-27T11:14:33-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
So what is your preferred method of ascertaining sex before you use any pronouns?

I don’t know.

Stopped_lurking · 2025-11-27T11:22:01-0600

RileyG said:
I don’t know.

My point is no one actually uses sex to determine what pronouns to use, we go by social and visual clues. I've gotten missexed enough, that I know people can't reliably guess sex if ones features are androgynous. And no one ever asked for a blood sample to check my sex chromosomes either. So I think it isn't true that pronouns somehow are linked to sex

Hans Blaster · 2025-11-27T11:29:25-0600

RileyG said:
I’m aware. That’s his birth name, but Jennings is just a stage name.

So is "Bob Dylan". His Bobness later changed his name legally to "Robert Dylan", as does happen with "stage names". People, in general, who start using a different name (other than a nickname) do frequently change their names legally. I assumed that was the case with Jazz, though I don't have direct evidence either way.

I had no idea you were talking about a "famous" person. Apparently she used a different surname to avoid harassment of her family when appearing on TV shows like Oprah. I don't know why that name "Jazz" is such a problem for you given that it has no traditional gender association. (or frankly usage as a name) This is particularly baffling given the gender ambiguity of the name you use here: Riley.

RileyG · 2025-11-27T11:29:39-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
My point is no one actually uses sex to determine what pronouns to use, we go by social and visual clues. I've gotten missexed enough, that I know people can't reliably guess sex if ones features are androgynous. And no one ever asked for a blood sample to check my sex chromosomes either. So I think it isn't true that pronouns somehow are linked to sex

99.9% of the time it is, though. Some people may look androgynous, but it doesn't mean they are the opposite sex. Looks are just looks.

RileyG · 2025-11-27T11:30:42-0600

Hans Blaster said:
So is "Bob Dylan". His Bobness later changed his name legally to "Robert Dylan", as does happen with "stage names". People, in general, who start using a different name (other than a nickname) do frequently change their names legally. I assumed that was the case with Jazz, though I don't have direct evidence either way.

I had no idea you were talking about a "famous" person. Apparently she used a different surname to avoid harassment of her family when appearing on TV shows like Oprah. I don't know why that name "Jazz" is such a problem for you given that it has no traditional gender association. (or frankly usage as a name) This is particularly baffling given the gender ambiguity of the name you use here: Riley.

Fair enough.

I don't know if Jennings is Jazz's legal last name, but it really doesn't matter.

As my parents told me, my name was a boys name before it was used for girls

Stopped_lurking · 2025-11-27T12:09:27-0600

RileyG said:
99.9% of the time it is, though. Some people may look androgynous, but it doesn't mean they are the opposite sex. Looks are just looks.

Have you ever waited to use anyone's pronouns until after they have revealed their sex to you? Unless you work in a fertility clinic that is highly unlikely. In theory it might happen, I guess. My contention is that that the social construct of gender, influence pronoun use more than biological sex. At least, that is my experience.

rjs330 · 2025-11-27T12:30:09-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
And what about the kiss example?

We aee talking about trans kids. Being trans is a serious mental illness. Kissing a same sex kid is not.

Stopped_lurking said:
Why?

Because thats what they are. If you want to use rheir preferred pronouns then do that.

Stopped_lurking said:
They are not. I haven't ever checked anyone's sex chromosomes or gametes before using a pronoun. Have you?

I've never needed to. I haven't been wrong yet and been doing it for a really long time..

Stopped_lurking said:
It's no lie.

Yes it is. They are not the opposite sex.

Stopped_lurking said:
Neither does pronouns.

Yes they do.

Stopped_lurking said:
It is all convention, there are languages with gender neutral pronouns in addition to gendered ones.

Irrelevant. Most languages have male and female pronouns when referring to males and females as a biological.sex.

Stopped_lurking said:
There are also languages where pronouns are not gendered.

We don't have that. But feel free to use preferred pronouns, I'm not for forcing someone not to.

RileyG · 2025-11-27T12:32:04-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
Have you ever waited to use anyone's pronouns until after they have revealed their sex to you? Unless you work in a fertility clinic that is highly unlikely. In theory it might happen, I guess. My contention is that that the social construct of gender, influence pronoun use more than biological sex. At least, that is my experience.

Social construct of gender? A majority of people are what they appear to be, they aren’t trying to deceive or trick others. Gender roles themselves are a social construct, gender expectations, yes. Gender itself? I’m on the fence.

BCP1928 · 2025-11-27T12:47:11-0600

RileyG said:
Social construct of gender? A majority of people are what they appear to be, they aren’t trying to deceive or trick others.

Neither are trans people. They know what they are and what their biology is and are not trying to deceive anybody about it. They also know how they want to be treated and their dress and overt behavior in a fairly strictly gendered society is the signal they send,

RileyG said:
Gender roles themselves are a social construct, gender expectations, yes. Gender itself? I’m on the fence.

It's tough. Biological sex is fairly straightforward but gender is more complex, a combination of biological sex, emotional and congnitive states and societal expectations. Writing off a failure to meet those societal expectations as "mental illness" is not a solution.

rjs330 · 2025-11-27T13:18:47-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
Where is it published then?

I want their published results.

Talk to them about it.

rjs330 · 2025-11-27T13:26:26-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
My point is no one actually uses sex to determine what pronouns to use, we go by social and visual clues. I've gotten missexed enough, that I know people can't reliably guess sex if ones features are androgynous. And no one ever asked for a blood sample to check my sex chromosomes either. So I think it isn't true that pronouns somehow are linked to sex

They are. The fact that you've been missexed is irrelevant. It was a mistake. Just like someone can think one is white when in fact you might be native American. You are what you were born as and pronouns are tied to sex. "He" is tied to the male sex. She is tied to the female sex. If it wasn't then it wouldn't be such a big deal to those who want to be called the opposite sex pronouns. If tgey were truly neutral you could call anyone whatever you wanted.

RileyG · 2025-11-27T13:29:33-0600

BCP1928 said:
Neither are trans people. They know what they are and what their biology is and are not trying to deceive anybody about it. They also know how they want to be treated and their dress and overt behavior in a fairly strictly gendered society is the signal they send,

It's tough. Biological sex is fairly straightforward but gender is more complex, a combination of biological sex, emotional and congnitive states and societal expectations. Writing off a failure to meet those societal expectations as "mental illness" is not a solution.

So called gender affirming care hasn’t been a solution either. Saying someone has a mental illness and should seek treatment for it is compassionate route.

And yes, many of them have purposefully deceived people and simply don’t care.

rjs330 · 2025-11-27T13:32:26-0600

BCP1928 said:
gender is more complex, a combination of biological sex, emotional and congnitive states and societal expectations.

No its not. Gender is sex. You can substitute sex for ANYTHING gender related and it would mean the same thing.

Even in your examples.
Emotional state of what?
Cognitive state of what?
Societal expectations of what?

RileyG · 2025-11-27T13:37:10-0600

rjs330 said:
No its not. Gender is sex. You can substitute sex for ANYTHING gender related and it would mean the same thing.

Even in your examples.
Emotional state of what?
Cognitive state of what?
Societal expectations of what?

Sex and gender are interchangeable. Even in some surveys it says gender: male or female.

BCP1928 · 2025-11-27T15:45:45-0600

rjs330 said:
No its not. Gender is sex. You can substitute sex for ANYTHING gender related and it would mean the same thing.

Even in your examples.
Emotional state of what?
Cognitive state of what?
Societal expectations of what?

Do you really believe that your emotional reactions, your ways of thinking about things that happen to you are identical to a man's? Do you really believe that your emotional reactions, your way of thinking about things that happen to you are not subject to gendered categorization by society?

rjs330 · 2025-11-27T20:52:17-0600

BCP1928 said:
Do you really believe that your emotional reactions, your ways of thinking about things that happen to you are identical to a man's?

You are rhe one rhat brought emotional reactions as determinor of gender. Not me

BCP1928 said:
Do you really believe that your emotional reactions, your way of thinking about things that happen to you are not subject to gendered categorization by society?

Aren't you rhe one that said emotions and cognitive state had something to do with gender?

BCP1928 · 2025-11-27T20:57:50-0600

rjs330 said:
You are rhe one rhat brought emotional reactions as determinor of gender. Not me

I brought them in as one characteristic of gender.

rjs330 said:
Aren't you rhe one that said emotions and cognitive state had something to do with gender?

That's what we are arguing about, isn't it?

What about you? Do you really believe that your emotional reactions, your ways of thinking about things that happen to you are identical to a woman's?

Stopped_lurking · 2025-11-27T22:07:28-0600

rjs330 said:
Talk to them about it.

I found some comments and case reports on their website (weakest form of evidence). I've sent them an email asking for more. Isn't it a little strange that you (personally) say they have good track record but you can't back it up?

The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

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