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The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

The Righterzpen

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Ok, I guess that is one view. What about different kinds of non-binary identities? I guess those who feel genderfluid would sometimes "masquerade" (I don't think this word really describes what trans people feel they do) as something they are not according to you, but agender individuals would they be problematic?
Well the problem here is the word "identity". People propose the concept of "accepting people for who they are". Well my question is; why and when has a series of behavioral constructs become an "identity"? (Like behavior is immutable aspect of self?)

That presents its own psychological problem in so many ways. How does "a criminal" not be a criminal, or "an alcoholic", or "a domestic abuser"; not be those labels? These are all "behavior applications" that carry "moral weight", as well as consequences both for the individuals and society as a whole. And the "behavioral construct model" also applies to all LGBTQ+++ "identities". Which all of these "identities" are behavioral constructs with psychological components to them; (which applies also to "criminal", "alcoholic" and "domestic abuser" labels; still all being behavioral constructs with psychological components).

The issue of "self" comes up a lot in mental health circles. What one thinks or feels about "self" (i.e. "self esteem").
And here's where I think psychology has failed to adequately serve the human race. What should "Identity" be?

This is something that's been kicking around in my head for the past couple of months. I'm a participant in a mental health program at the VA and the question of identity has come up in a couple of our classes. For example; several people made comments about how being in the military was / had been "their identity" at one point. (Now they feel "lost" being out of the military = "Who am I now?"

And I said: "I never saw the military as part of my identity; it was a job that I did." (Subsequently this made one fellow quite upset.) Then he tired to insist that my "identity" was that I was a care giver of my son. And I replied: "No, that is not my identity either. That is simply a role I play in his life right now." And he couldn't seem to separate the concept of "self" from "do".

I'd made the comment in a later group that we are human beings, not human doings. Which ultimately is an existential question: what does it mean to "be" (human). Or more fundamentally, what does my existence mean to me?

Personally, I still haven't come up with a prescriptive perimeter I could put around that question. I actually don't know what my "identity" is; because it seems far more of a broader existential question than a job I had, a task I perform, a behavioral construct, or even life circumstances that become integrated into part of our personal psyches. (I.E. "mom", "combat veteran", "abuse survivor" "Adult child of....") And I suppose we could throw philosophical ideas in here too. (Stoic, philanthropist, volunteer...)

Or even ethnic, national or political affiliations; being some of this is where we might get into more immutable characteristics of "self" being related to birth place, race, and even "biological male" and "biological female". (It seems odd to me that now we have to make even those distinctions too. The meaning of "male" and "female" are now "fluid" yet it's not "politically correct" to "identify" as another culture or race? (Of any of those choices, culture and race is certainly more "fluid" than birth sex.) And this is how we KNOW we're dealing with an ideology that has its own agenda. (Just like ALL political ideologies have agendas too.)

Now "religious affiliation" maybe comes closest to "meaning of identity" because its conceptions are closer tied to the question of "the meaning of life". Religious affiliation tries to answer the issue of human relationship to God; (or in the least "cosmic something bigger than self"). An attempt to answer the question of "what is the meaning of my life" / "why am I here"? (Which none of these other "identity labels" can ever satisfy. Even immutable characteristics of self as living beings; (such as race, ethnicity, birth place, biological sex) don't fully fill the question of the meaning of life and why am I here?

I believe Jesus Christ paid for my sin. I believe in the sovereignty of God in salvation. I believe in God's omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, immutability, immortality, holiness and moral supremacy. My "religious affiliation" would be "reformed protestant Christian". And my "job" in the Kingdom is to proclaim the gospel, pray and obey God by believing in the effectual atonement Christ provided and repenting of my sin. Thus I come to the conclusion that my "identity" is wrapped up in eternity. Despite I frequently feel like I don't do a very good "job" of any of this. Thus my "psychological self assessment of self" isn't particularly bolstered by my beliefs; except in the fact that I'm grateful God has had mercy on me; because of the atonement Christ provided. Other than that; I suppose I could say: I don't have very good "self esteem"; and though I try to balance "wise as serpents innocent as doves" admittedly I'm not always "nice" either!

So there's my deeper psychological assessment of what's going on in all of this "agenda" arguments.

Now of course this doesn't mean these ideas don't impact my life. My son "identifies" as "asexual". Which his disinterest in sex doesn't raise any obvious moral issues. (Yes, he can survive his whole life as a celibate male.) "What would Jesus do?" Well.... there ya go! ^_^
:sohappy:

The thing I question; (and I've asked him this too). I don't understand the "need" of those who profess to be Christians, to... basically "defend sin" and... attempt to shield people from the consequences of something that's basically a behavioral construct. Not denying that it's a difficult sin to be enslaved to; and people wishing to overcome this need compassion and solid truthful counsel.

Yet, In the greater running of society; I don't need to know what consenting adults do with other consenting adults in the privacy of their own homes. If I hire you to work at my company; so long as you do your job, I don't care if you're gay. Keep that to yourself.

Though I do acknowledge the moral obligation here to protect those who can't protect themselves. (For example: those utilizing public institutions such as schools for non-adults.) Which of course gets into the American constitutional question of "government reach" Though Scripture does say that God's given purpose for government is to protect society against the sinful actions of others.
 
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Hentenza

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So if they experience it they will know what it is and be able to talk about it and be supported.

When was silence a good thing for anything important?
Or it will add to their already complicated role confusion. In a high percentage of kids experiencing gender dysphoria the condition clears in their older years. There is absolutely no reason to expose kids to such mess and, even worse, force them to use pronouns that do not match the gender or force them into gender affirming “care”.
 
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The Righterzpen

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In school it shouldn't be a moral issue at all, just facts about LGBT. We don't need to agree about it morally.

I meant "shouldn't" in the vernacular sense of "I don't see any good reason for it." In particular, there is no justification for a public school to teach religious doctrine about it.
The real question here is who determines morals and ethics and what should societies adhere to?

Now there are places on earth where anyone can do what ever they want. And.... people don't usually like living in those places because anarchy isn't good either!
Yeah but the tenets of any faith are not de facto moral or ethical.
Yes they are. The very definition of any "religious system" entails morals and ethics.

In the context of the material in the OP, it includes resources for teachers who happen to be trans and how best to go about '"coming out" at work and "tips" for "transitioning at work."' For all the scare tactics, the training materials appear to be about how teachers should deal with issues professionally, not about curriculum to be taught to students.

But yes, if a kid's teacher is trans, they will face this issue.
My solution to this: school vouchers. The money follows the student. Our public education system needs more competition (even entailing the fact that the homeschool movement is currently "crushing it"!
 
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Hentenza

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Who is forcing you to be LGBTQ?
Not me. My grandkids are now experiencing the peer pressure and even the 9 year old brings propaganda home. I live in Texas and hopefully SB12 will work to mitigate the damage and give parents a choice on what their kids are exposed to.
 
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BCP1928

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It wasn't exactly "embraced" considering that it was considered so ridiculous that simply seeing a male character in drag was considered high comedy. The joke was that it was patently absurd.
"Drag" is not the same as cross-dressing.
 
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Fervent

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"Drag" is not the same as cross-dressing.
Both involve men in women's clothing, so forgive me if I don't care about the nuances of alphabet soup nomenclature.
 
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BCP1928

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The real question here is who determines morals and ethics and what should societies adhere to?
If we are talking about a secular state like the US then the question is not a moral one because the State, as such, has no moral position. It only has laws.
Now there are places on earth where anyone can do what ever they want. And.... people don't usually like living in those places because anarchy isn't good either!
I wasn't aware that there was any such place. Even anarchy imposes limits on our behaviour.
Yes they are. The very definition of any "religious system" entails morals and ethics.


My solution to this: school vouchers. The money follows the student. Our public education system needs more competition (even entailing the fact that the homeschool movement is currently "crushing it"!
Home schooling and vouchers--a neat way to dodge the issue.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Not me. My grandkids are now experiencing the peer pressure and even the 9 year old brings propaganda home. I live in Texas and hopefully SB12 will work to mitigate the damage and give parents a choice on what their kids are exposed to.
YES!!! We (also) need more school choice.

My kid has been "out of school" since the lockdowns 5 years ago. Fortunately we lived (and still do) in a rural conservative school district. That being combined with homeschool; he pretty much avoided the school indoctrination. Unfortunately though; it's everywhere. He deals with this in video gaming communities all the time. And even at 23 years old, he still struggles to see through the "we're the oppressed community" and you "need to have white guilt" because our LGBTQ+++ "feelings are hurt" agenda.

And with all that's going on on the Internet with AI and bots? How much of this is real for a population that only totals 2 to 3 percent of the total public? The internet has been "the biggest blessing" and "the mark of the beast" all at the same time!

:doh:
 
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The Righterzpen

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If we are talking about a secular state like the US then the question is not a moral one because the State, as such, has no moral position. It only has laws.
And where do you think laws come from? There has to be some form of moral or ethical standard to build laws off of. According to your profile; you're certainly old enough to know that!
I wasn't aware that there was any such place. Even anarchy imposes limits on our behaviour.
The only real limits anarchy imposes on behavior is death. Logically, that is the only outcome. And living in a place where justice does not exist is not conducive to life.
Home schooling and vouchers--a neat way to dodge the issue.
And you want to take away the rights of anyone who disagrees and chooses to exit that system? (And build a parallel system.) Why should you be the one to determine who educates my child?
 
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BCP1928

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Both involve men in women's clothing, so forgive me if I don't care about the nuances of alphabet soup nomenclature.
Since it is important to you to avoid such things, how do you define what constitutes men's as opposed to women's clothing? Most of the few trans people I actually know prefer to dress unisex, as do increasing numbers of non-trans young people as a way of avoiding the hassle of deciding which gender stereotype they have to conform to. What's your take on that?
 
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BCP1928

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Great. Keep it away from the kids.
Why? It's harmless.
And where do you think laws come from? There has to be some form of moral or ethical standard to build laws off of.

The only real limits anarchy imposes on behavior is death. Logically, that is the only outcome. And living in a place where justice does not exist is not conducive to life.

And you want to take away the rights of anyone who disagrees and chooses to exit that system? (And build a parallel system.) Why should you be the one to determine who educates my child?
No, you're free to dodge the issue. You are free to isolate your children from learning anything real about human sexuality, though that you would want to seems kind of kinky to me.
 
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Hentenza

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Since it is important to you to avoid such things, how do you define what constitutes men's as opposed to women's clothing? Most of the few trans people I actually know prefer to dress unisex, as do increasing numbers of non-trans young people as a way of avoiding the hassle of deciding which gender stereotype they have to conform to. What's your take on that?
Most clothing stores have a woman section and a men section. Pretty simple. ;)
 
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Fervent

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Since it is important to you to avoid such things, how do you define what constitutes men's as opposed to women's clothing? Most of the few trans people I actually know prefer to dress unisex, as do increasing numbers of non-trans young people as a way of avoiding the hassle of deciding which gender stereotype they have to conform to. What's your take on that?
The ratio of functional pockets to garment length.
 
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BCP1928

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I disagree.
What's the harm? What drag queens are teaching is that how we dress is only cultural convention and it's OK to have fun with it sometimes. No harm in that at all.
 
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The Righterzpen

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No, you're free to dodge the issue. You are free to isolate your children from learning anything real about human sexuality, though that you would want to seems kind of kinky to me.
Speaking of dodging issues. You demonstrate well the behavior of someone who lacks the ability to defend their position.
 
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