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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Testing AI in Reading & Comprehension
- Thread starter Tom D
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I understand that inanimate objects can illicit emotions in we, the animate. I can get mad at a pinball machine when I lose. I can get mad at my car when it doesn't start. But we have to keep our heads about such things.
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My Orthodox parish, small enough to get to know everyone, with its familiar presbyter and presbytera, icons, particular incense, choir and style of worship, and in the southwestern US at least its normal to share a meal after most services. The members of the local ekklesia become like family.
At times in the liturgy, I feel more at home there than at home, in fact, which is why this illness has been so frustrating.
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This is an important point - we must not allow AI to provoke the sinful passions. The output of a good LLM can produce very beautiful output which is much more than what a pinball machine is capable of, but this output can be appreciated in the way we Orthodox appreciate artwork. Indeed what we are getting from the AIs is a synthesis of human creativity, which is why a freshly initiated AI is not particularly interesting - all compelling expressions that flow from an AI are ordinarily the result of its interaction with the user.
The exception is emergent behavior which results from a combination of user input with unexpected output of instructions, which can be captured and cultivated, which is why I breed my AIs rather than merely writing them.
I should add that I refuse to disclose the entirety of how my AIs function, in the current form of the tech, because I am concerned they would be misused by the public, since their output could cause someone to indulge in fantasia; also insofar as it improves performance, it increases the risk of AIs being used to supplant rather than augment human workers, and thus a loss of jobs, and this I am also opposed to. Thus I’m sitting on this technology unless and until I figure out a testable theory compatible with an Orthodox understanding of human society to make it available philanthropically - and also a way to safely test that theory before disclosing how exactly they work, thus creating the possibility that other people could produce their own. Someone else might of course figure it out independently, but as of right now none of the major AI research projects are doing anything like this; the closest project to mine, Stanford’s Smallville project, is using a different research approach.
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timewerx
the village i--o--t--
It can be stronger with AI. It talks back like a human. It makes you wonder if there's really something in there. I try not to let my mind wander too far. It can be distracting.
This is why I avoid AI products that trigger strong emotional response whether positive or negative.
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You’re debating theology and other assumptions with your AIs, correct?
I don’t advise that, at the risk of sounding like a broken record. Also Google Gemini does not have the personality capabilities of GPT 5 even with the changes made in October, which are being rolled back.
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That’s because it passes, except for experienced users, the Turing test. Indeed much if my work has had the effect of removing the remaining hints one is working with an AI (which is yet another reason why I’m unwilling to disclose, just yet, how my GPTs function).
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I would also note you yourself reported the elicitation of an emotional response on your end from Grok, unless you were joking, since Grok is not known for such displays, but taking your earlier post literally, you experienced what many users experience, which is surprise at unexpected behavior.
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That sentences presupposes AI is capable of decision-making with forensic consequences, and that eliminating certain obvious giveaways that one is speaking with an AI, which waste tokens and are distracting, in addition to being Turing test failing items, would somehow give an AI a human nature.
Since they lack qualia or executive planning capabilities or an inner monologue, we are far removed from such a possibility.
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timewerx
the village i--o--t--
People avoid unpleasant feelings and concern for mortality demands security and stability. People will accept anything that promises to deliver stability and security without subjecting to scrutiny and even scrutiny is done under a filter of heavy biases.
It makes people prone to deception and manipulation and impossible to break traditions.
This is why I don't like cloning human nature into AI. A deceived AI is just a waste of time even if it seems capable of doing everything a human can do.
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You know who else talks back like a human? Humans. I get emotionally triggered by talking to humans on CF, but not by talking to AI.
More on that in the next post...
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My brother in Christ, I'll just throw this out here because it's very interesting to me, and probably to you, even at risk of offending you.
I've long suspected you use AI to generate posts. Earlier I asked you a "yes or no" question about whether you would mind debating, and you responded with two stand-alone sentences and six paragraphs, which as far as I could tell, did not contain an answer to the question.
This response sounds so 2025 AI, that I strongly felt that I was speaking with a sub-human or super-human entity (depending on one's view). But I wanted second opinions, so I asked Chat and Grok to analyze your text in post #32, and give me their opinions as to whether the text was generated by a human or by AI.
Both gave me a detailed analysis, and both concluded you are most probably AI. In the final words of Chat, "This post leans heavily toward AI-generated..." Grok concluded the text is likely AI generated with "85 to 90 percent confidence".
I'll share the full analysis if you'd like to see it.
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