• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,170
5,147
On the bus to Heaven
✟149,247.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The case was made in the post above that said, "it reads the same in the Greek".
It is your job to prove it doesn't. You yet to do that. You seem to think any answer is the correct one. The lack of depth and unwillingness to put the time in to actually address anything seems to be the norm here.
Sadly, in this case if you had put the time in to look you would have seen what was posted was true and you would have either liked the post or moved on silently in intellectual dishonesty holding onto the false interpretation that you started with.

Be that as it may, you asked so here is the an Interlinear. We went ahead and put a bold emphasis on the words to which you question in respect to whether they were in the Greek. Beside each word is it's translation, it being a Interlinear. If you like we can talk of the grammar and syntax. But it really isn't necessary.

One can clearly see the context is uninterrupted.
Because Grammatically speaking the context is continuous from verse 1 to at least 31 when it speaks of Christ coming with His angels to gather the elect at the end of this world.

How do we know? By His use of words like and, but, then, when wherefore, and so forth. These words connect what is about to be said to what is already said as was already stated to you above. And yes they are in the Greek and are for the most part translated correctly in most of our English translations.

So that means up to Christ's coming in the clouds of glory with His angels Jesus expected His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath. Because no one to whom He was speaking to is alive today to be alive at the time of the tribulation that is not like any before. This tribulation has not happened yet. How do we know?

Because Jesus said Immediately after this tribulation that is shortened so the Elect are preserved, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (vs.29-31)


Matt 24:2 ὁ δὲ But Ἰησοῦς Jesus εἶπεν Said αὐτοῖς To Them, Οὐ βλέπετε See Ye Not πάντα All ταῦτα These Things? ἀμὴν Verily λέγω I Say ὑμῖν To You, οὐ μὴ Not At All ἀφεθῇ Shall Be Left ὧδε Here λίθος Stone ἐπὶ Upon λίθον Stone ὃς οὐ μὴ Which καταλυθήσεται Shall Not Be Thrown Down.
Matt 24:3 Καθημένου δὲ And As Was Sitting αὐτοῦ He ἐπὶ Upon τοῦ The Ὄρους Mount τῶν Ἐλαιῶν Of Olives προσῆλθον Came To αὐτῷ Him οἱ The μαθηταὶ κατ' Disciples ἰδίαν Apart, λέγοντες Saying, Εἰπὲ Tell ἡμῖν Us, πότε When ταῦτα These Things ἔσται Shall Be? καὶ And τί What 'Is' τὸ The σημεῖον Sign τῆς σῆς Of Thy παρουσίας Coming καὶ And τῆς Of The συντελείας Completion τοῦ Of The αἰῶνος Age?
Matt 24:4 καὶ And ἀποκριθεὶς Answering ὁ Ἰησοῦς Jesus εἶπεν Said αὐτοῖς To Them, Βλέπετε Take Heed, μή Lest τις Any One ὑμᾶς You πλανήσῃ· Mislead.
Matt 24:5 πολλοὶ γὰρ For Many ἐλεύσονται Will Come ἐπὶ In τῷ ὀνόματί μου My Name, λέγοντες, Saying, Ἐγώ I εἰμι Am ὁ The Χριστός, Christ; καὶ And πολλοὺς Many πλανήσουσιν They Will Mislead.
Matt 24:6 μελλήσετε δὲ But Ye Shall Be About ἀκούειν To Hear Of πολέμους Wars καὶ And ἀκοὰς Rumours πολέμων· Of Wars. ὁρᾶτε μὴ See, θροεῖσθε· Be Not Disturbed; δεῖ γὰρ For It Is Necessary All 'These' πάντα Things γενέσθαι To Take Place, ἀλλ' But οὔπω Not Yet ἐστὶν Is τὸ The τέλος End.
Matt 24:7 ἐγερθήσεται γὰρ For Shall Rise Up ἔθνος Nation ἐπὶ Against ἔθνος Nation καὶ And βασιλεία Kingdom ἐπὶ Against βασιλείαν Kingdom; καὶ And ἔσονται There Shall Be λιμοὶ Famines καὶ And λοιμοί Pestilences καὶ And σεισμοὶ Earthquakes κατὰ In 'Different' τόπους· Places.
Matt 24:8 πάντα δὲ But All ταῦτα These 'Are' ἀρχὴ A Beginning ὠδίνων Of Throes.
Matt 24:9 τότε Then παραδώσουσιν Will They Deliver Up ὑμᾶς You εἰς To θλῖψιν Tribulation, καὶ And ἀποκτενοῦσιν Will Kill ὑμᾶς You; καὶ And ἔσεσθε Ye Will Be μισούμενοι Hated ὑπὸ By πάντων All τῶν The ἐθνῶν Nations διὰ On Account Of τὸ ὄνομά μου My Name.
Matt 24:10 καὶ And τότε Then σκανδαλισθήσονται Will Be Offended πολλοὶ Many, καὶ And ἀλλήλους One Another παραδώσουσιν They Will Deliver Up καὶ And μισήσουσιν Will Hate ἀλλήλους· One Another;
Matt 24:11 καὶ And πολλοὶ Many ψευδοπροφῆται False Prophets ἐγερθήσονται Will Arise, καὶ And πλανήσουσιν Will Mislead πολλούς· Many;
Matt 24:12 καὶ And διὰ Because τὸ πληθυνθῆναι Shall Have Been Multiplied τὴν ἀνομίαν Lawlessness, ψυγήσεται Will Grow Cold ἡ The ἀγάπη Love τῶν Of The πολλῶν Many;
Matt 24:13δὲ But He Who ὑπομείνας Endures εἰς To 'The' τέλος End οὗτος He σωθήσεται Shall Be Saved.
Matt 24:14 καὶ And κηρυχθήσεται There Shall Be Proclaimed τοῦτο These τὸ εὐαγγέλιον Glad Tidings τῆς Of The βασιλείας Kingdom ἐν In ὅλῃ All τῇ The οἰκουμένῃ Habitable Earth, εἰς For μαρτύριον A Testimony πᾶσιν To All τοῖς The ἔθνεσιν Nations; καὶ And τότε Then ἥξει Shall Come τὸ The τέλος End.
Matt 24:15 Ὅταν When οὖν Therefore ἴδητε Ye Shall See τὸ The βδέλυγμα Abomination τῆς ἐρημώσεως Of Desolation, τὸ Which ῥηθὲν Was Spoken Of διὰ By Δανιὴλ Daniel τοῦ The προφήτου Prophet, ἑστὸς Standing ἐν In 'The' τόπῳ Place ἁγίῳ Holy ὁ he Who ἀναγινώσκων Reads νοείτω Let Him Understand,
Matt 24:16 τότε Then οἱ Those ἐν In τῇ Ἰουδαίᾳ Judea φευγέτωσαν Let Them Flee ἐπί To τὰ The ὄρη Mountains;
Matt 24:17 ὁ He ἐπὶ On τοῦ The δώματος μὴ Housetop καταβαινέτω Let Him Not Come Down ἆραι To Take τι Anything ἐκ Out Of τῆς οἰκίας αὐτοῦ His
House;
Matt 24:18 καὶ And ὁ He ἐν In τῷ The ἀγρῷ μὴ Field ἐπιστρεψάτω Let Him Not Return ὀπίσω Back ἆραι To Take τὰ ἱμάτια Garments αὐτοῦ His.
Matt 24:19 οὐαὶ δὲ But Woe ταῖς ἐν To Those That γαστρὶ ἐχούσαις Are With Child καὶ And ταῖς To Those That θηλαζούσαις Give Suck ἐν In ἐκείναις Those ταῖς ἡμέραις Days.
Matt 24:20 προσεύχεσθε δὲ And (But) Pray ἵνα μὴ That γένηται May Not Be ἡ φυγὴ ὑμῶν Your Flight χειμῶνος In Winter, μηδὲ Nor ἐν On σαββάτῳ Sabbath :
Matt 24:21 ἔσται γὰρ For There Shall Be τότε Then θλῖψις Tribulation μεγάλη Great οἵα Such As οὐ Not γέγονεν Has Been ἀπ' From 'The' ἀρχῆς Beginning κόσμου Of 'The' World ἕως Until τοῦ νῦν Now, οὐδ No, οὐ μὴ Nor Ever γένηται Shall Be;
Matt 24:22 καὶ And εἰ μὴ Unless ἐκολοβώθησαν Had Been Shortened αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι Those Days, οὐκ ἂν Not ἐσώθη There Would Have Been Saved πᾶσα Any σάρξ· Flesh, διὰ δὲ But On Account Of τοὺς The ἐκλεκτοὺς Elect κολοβωθήσονται Shall Be Shortened αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι Those Days.
Matt 24:23 τότε Then ἐάν If τις Anyone ὑμῖν To You εἴπῃ Say, Ἰδού, Behold, ὧδε Here 'Is' ὁ The Χριστός, Christ, ἤ, Or Ὧδε, μὴ Here, πιστεύσητε· Believe 'It' Not.
Matt 24:24 ἐγερθήσονται There Will Arise γὰρ For ψευδόχριστοι False Christs καὶ And ψευδοπροφῆται False Prophets, καὶ And δώσουσιν Will Give σημεῖα Signs μεγάλα Great καὶ And τέρατα Wonders, ὥστε So As πλανῆσαι, To Mislead, εἰ If δυνατόν, Possible, καὶ Even τοὺς The ἐκλεκτούς· Elect.
Matt 24:25 ἰδού, Lo, προείρηκα I Have Foretold 'It' ὑμῖν To You.
Matt 24:26 ἐὰν If οὖν Therefore εἴπωσιν They Say ὑμῖν To You, Ἰδού, Behold, ἐν In τῇ The ἐρήμῳ Wilderness ἐστίν, μὴ He Is, ἐξέλθητε· Go Not Forth : Ἰδού, Behold, 'He Is' ἐν In τοῖς The ταμείοις μὴ Chambers, πιστεύσητε· Believe 'It' Not.
Matt 24:27 ὥσπερ γὰρ For As ἡ The ἀστραπὴ Lightning ἐξέρχεται Comes Forth ἀπὸ From 'The' ἀνατολῶν East καὶ And φαίνεται Appears ἕως As Far As 'The' δυσμῶν West, οὕτως So ἔσται Shall Be καὶ Also ἡ The παρουσία Coming τοῦ Of The υἱοῦ Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου· Of Man.
Matt 24:28 ὅπου γὰρ ἐὰν For Wherever ᾖ May Be τὸ The πτῶμα Carcase, ἐκεῖ There συναχθήσονται Will Be Gathered Together οἱ The ἀετοί Eagles.
Matt 24:29 Εὐθέως Immediately δὲ But μετὰ After τὴν The θλῖψιν Tribulation τῶν ἡμερῶν ἐκείνων Of Those Days ὁ The ἥλιος Sun σκοτισθήσεται Shall Be Darkened, καὶ And ἡ The σελήνη Moon οὐ δώσει Shall Not Give τὸ φέγγος αὐτῆς Her Light, καὶ And οἱ The ἀστέρες Stars πεσοῦνται Shall Fall ἀπὸ From τοῦ The οὐρανοῦ Heaven, καὶ And αἱ The δυνάμεις Powers τῶν Of The οὐρανῶν Heavens σαλευθήσονται Shall Be Shaken.
Matt 24:30 καὶ And τότε Then φανήσεται Shall Appear τὸ The σημεῖον Sign τοῦ Of The υἱοῦ Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου Of Man ἐν In τῷ The οὐρανῷ Heaven; καὶ And τότε Then κόψονται Shall Wail πᾶσαι All αἱ The φυλαὶ Tribes τῆς Of The γῆς Land, καὶ And ὄψονται They Shall See τὸν The υἱὸν Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου Of Man, ἐρχόμενον Coming ἐπὶ On τῶν The νεφελῶν Clouds τοῦ οὐρανοῦ Of Heaven μετὰ With δυνάμεως Power καὶ And δόξης Glory πολλῆς· Great.
Matt 24:31 καὶ And ἀποστελεῖ He Shall Send τοὺς ἀγγέλους Angels αὐτοῦ His μετὰ With σάλπιγγος Of A Trumpet φωνῆς Sound μεγάλης Great, καὶ And ἐπισυνάξουσιν They Shall Gather Together τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ His Elect ἐκ From τῶν The τεσσάρων Four ἀνέμων Winds, ἀπ' From 'The' ἄκρων Extremities οὐρανῶν Of 'The' Heavens ἕως To 'The' ἄκρων Extremities αὐτῶν Of Them.



Your post was not ignored. As seen above, you said,


So with that, you were shown that the Greek confirms what was shared to you in respect to the grammar and syntax relaying that the context shares that Jesus expected His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath up to His coming in the clouds with His Angels to Gather the Elect. This fact alone answers and discredits anything else you think.

As a side note, are you actually reading and understanding what is posted to you.?
Nothing here addresses my exegesis in post 502 and you are yet to show me your qualifications as a Greek scholar. As a side note, did you actually read my post 502? I read yours but find c&p’s of Greek that you are posting for effect and does not further the conversation. So you address mine and I’ll address yours otherwise we are just posting past each other.
 
Upvote 0

Freth

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 11, 2020
1,753
2,096
Midwest, USA
✟604,899.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
The Law and the Standard

Jesus said:

Matthew 5:18-22 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
  • What is the standard for one jot or tittle to pass from the law? "Till heaven and earth pass...till all be fulfilled."
  • What is the standard for commandment keeping? "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven..."
  • What commandments was Jesus talking about? "Thou shalt not kill..." The Ten.
  • What is the standard of righteousness? "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
The Plan of Salvation

God the Father and the Son had a plan of salvation before the foundation of the world, before creation (Matthew 25:34, Luke 11:50, Revelation 13:8). Let that sink in for a minute.
  • The plan of salvation predates creation itself.
  • The plan of salvation is intricate and deliberate.
  • God was intricate and deliberate when He created all things in six days.
  • Immediately after, on the seventh day, He instituted the Sabbath and sanctified it, "for man" (as Jesus said in Mark 2:27-28).
Did He stop being intricate and deliberate after the sixth day? No.

Now look at Hebrews 4.

Hebrews 4:3-5 [1]For we which have believed [2]do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [3]For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. [4]And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Is the Sabbath a part of the plan of salvation? What does scripture say? (↑)

Sunday
  • No scriptural support whatsoever for Sunday sacredness.
  • Daniel 7:25 prophesies that man would think to change God's times and laws. In other words, man can think to change God's times and laws, but man cannot change God's times and laws. He is prophesied as speaking great words against the most High.
Conclusion

If God is intricate and deliberate, then all statements in support of the Ten, from the institution of the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation to the call to keep the commandments at the end of time before Jesus returns, must be taken into account. And if you take them all into account, the evidence for the Sabbath is more than sufficient. Sunday in scripture? <crickets>
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
5,130
2,104
59
Alabama
Visit site
✟589,098.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Nothing here addresses my exegesis in post 502 and you are yet to show me your qualifications as a Greek scholar. As a side note, did you actually read my post 502? I read yours but find c&p’s of Greek that you are posting for effect and does not further the conversation. So you address mine and I’ll address yours otherwise we are just posting past each other.
For affect? Yes the affect,effectually proves the point that
One can clearly see the context is uninterrupted.
Because Grammatically speaking the context is continuous from verse 1 to at least 31 when it speaks of Christ coming with His angels to gather the elect at the end of this world.

How do we know? By His use of words like and, but, then, when wherefore, and so forth. These words connect what is about to be said to what is already said as was already stated to you above. And yes they are in the Greek and are for the most part translated correctly in most of our English translations.

So that means up to Christ's coming in the clouds of glory with His angels Jesus expected His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath. Because no one to whom He was speaking to is alive today to be alive at the time of the tribulation that is not like any before. This tribulation has not happened yet. How do we know?

Because Jesus said Immediately after this tribulation that is shortened so the Elect are preserved, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (vs.29-31)


Matt 24:2 ὁ δὲ But Ἰησοῦς Jesus εἶπεν Said αὐτοῖς To Them, Οὐ βλέπετε See Ye Not πάντα All ταῦτα These Things? ἀμὴν Verily λέγω I Say ὑμῖν To You, οὐ μὴ Not At All ἀφεθῇ Shall Be Left ὧδε Here λίθος Stone ἐπὶ Upon λίθον Stone ὃς οὐ μὴ Which καταλυθήσεται Shall Not Be Thrown Down.
Matt 24:3 Καθημένου δὲ And As Was Sitting αὐτοῦ He ἐπὶ Upon τοῦ The Ὄρους Mount τῶν Ἐλαιῶν Of Olives προσῆλθον Came To αὐτῷ Him οἱ The μαθηταὶ κατ' Disciples ἰδίαν Apart, λέγοντες Saying, Εἰπὲ Tell ἡμῖν Us, πότε When ταῦτα These Things ἔσται Shall Be? καὶ And τί What 'Is' τὸ The σημεῖον Sign τῆς σῆς Of Thy παρουσίας Coming καὶ And τῆς Of The συντελείας Completion τοῦ Of The αἰῶνος Age?
Matt 24:4 καὶ And ἀποκριθεὶς Answering ὁ Ἰησοῦς Jesus εἶπεν Said αὐτοῖς To Them, Βλέπετε Take Heed, μή Lest τις Any One ὑμᾶς You πλανήσῃ· Mislead.
Matt 24:5 πολλοὶ γὰρ For Many ἐλεύσονται Will Come ἐπὶ In τῷ ὀνόματί μου My Name, λέγοντες, Saying, Ἐγώ I εἰμι Am ὁ The Χριστός, Christ; καὶ And πολλοὺς Many πλανήσουσιν They Will Mislead.
Matt 24:6 μελλήσετε δὲ But Ye Shall Be About ἀκούειν To Hear Of πολέμους Wars καὶ And ἀκοὰς Rumours πολέμων· Of Wars. ὁρᾶτε μὴ See, θροεῖσθε· Be Not Disturbed; δεῖ γὰρ For It Is Necessary All 'These' πάντα Things γενέσθαι To Take Place, ἀλλ' But οὔπω Not Yet ἐστὶν Is τὸ The τέλος End.
Matt 24:7 ἐγερθήσεται γὰρ For Shall Rise Up ἔθνος Nation ἐπὶ Against ἔθνος Nation καὶ And βασιλεία Kingdom ἐπὶ Against βασιλείαν Kingdom; καὶ And ἔσονται There Shall Be λιμοὶ Famines καὶ And λοιμοί Pestilences καὶ And σεισμοὶ Earthquakes κατὰ In 'Different' τόπους· Places.
Matt 24:8 πάντα δὲ But All ταῦτα These 'Are' ἀρχὴ A Beginning ὠδίνων Of Throes.
Matt 24:9 τότε Then παραδώσουσιν Will They Deliver Up ὑμᾶς You εἰς To θλῖψιν Tribulation, καὶ And ἀποκτενοῦσιν Will Kill ὑμᾶς You; καὶ And ἔσεσθε Ye Will Be μισούμενοι Hated ὑπὸ By πάντων All τῶν The ἐθνῶν Nations διὰ On Account Of τὸ ὄνομά μου My Name.
Matt 24:10 καὶ And τότε Then σκανδαλισθήσονται Will Be Offended πολλοὶ Many, καὶ And ἀλλήλους One Another παραδώσουσιν They Will Deliver Up καὶ And μισήσουσιν Will Hate ἀλλήλους· One Another;
Matt 24:11 καὶ And πολλοὶ Many ψευδοπροφῆται False Prophets ἐγερθήσονται Will Arise, καὶ And πλανήσουσιν Will Mislead πολλούς· Many;
Matt 24:12 καὶ And διὰ Because τὸ πληθυνθῆναι Shall Have Been Multiplied τὴν ἀνομίαν Lawlessness, ψυγήσεται Will Grow Cold ἡ The ἀγάπη Love τῶν Of The πολλῶν Many;
Matt 24:13δὲ But He Who ὑπομείνας Endures εἰς To 'The' τέλος End οὗτος He σωθήσεται Shall Be Saved.
Matt 24:14 καὶ And κηρυχθήσεται There Shall Be Proclaimed τοῦτο These τὸ εὐαγγέλιον Glad Tidings τῆς Of The βασιλείας Kingdom ἐν In ὅλῃ All τῇ The οἰκουμένῃ Habitable Earth, εἰς For μαρτύριον A Testimony πᾶσιν To All τοῖς The ἔθνεσιν Nations; καὶ And τότε Then ἥξει Shall Come τὸ The τέλος End.
Matt 24:15 Ὅταν When οὖν Therefore ἴδητε Ye Shall See τὸ The βδέλυγμα Abomination τῆς ἐρημώσεως Of Desolation, τὸ Which ῥηθὲν Was Spoken Of διὰ By Δανιὴλ Daniel τοῦ The προφήτου Prophet, ἑστὸς Standing ἐν In 'The' τόπῳ Place ἁγίῳ Holy ὁ he Who ἀναγινώσκων Reads νοείτω Let Him Understand,
Matt 24:16 τότε Then οἱ Those ἐν In τῇ Ἰουδαίᾳ Judea φευγέτωσαν Let Them Flee ἐπί To τὰ The ὄρη Mountains;
Matt 24:17 ὁ He ἐπὶ On τοῦ The δώματος μὴ Housetop καταβαινέτω Let Him Not Come Down ἆραι To Take τι Anything ἐκ Out Of τῆς οἰκίας αὐτοῦ His
House;
Matt 24:18 καὶ And ὁ He ἐν In τῷ The ἀγρῷ μὴ Field ἐπιστρεψάτω Let Him Not Return ὀπίσω Back ἆραι To Take τὰ ἱμάτια Garments αὐτοῦ His.
Matt 24:19 οὐαὶ δὲ But Woe ταῖς ἐν To Those That γαστρὶ ἐχούσαις Are With Child καὶ And ταῖς To Those That θηλαζούσαις Give Suck ἐν In ἐκείναις Those ταῖς ἡμέραις Days.
Matt 24:20 προσεύχεσθε δὲ And (But) Pray ἵνα μὴ That γένηται May Not Be ἡ φυγὴ ὑμῶν Your Flight χειμῶνος In Winter, μηδὲ Nor ἐν On σαββάτῳ Sabbath :
Matt 24:21 ἔσται γὰρ For There Shall Be τότε Then θλῖψις Tribulation μεγάλη Great οἵα Such As οὐ Not γέγονεν Has Been ἀπ' From 'The' ἀρχῆς Beginning κόσμου Of 'The' World ἕως Until τοῦ νῦν Now, οὐδ No, οὐ μὴ Nor Ever γένηται Shall Be;
Matt 24:22 καὶ And εἰ μὴ Unless ἐκολοβώθησαν Had Been Shortened αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι Those Days, οὐκ ἂν Not ἐσώθη There Would Have Been Saved πᾶσα Any σάρξ· Flesh, διὰ δὲ But On Account Of τοὺς The ἐκλεκτοὺς Elect κολοβωθήσονται Shall Be Shortened αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι Those Days.
Matt 24:23 τότε Then ἐάν If τις Anyone ὑμῖν To You εἴπῃ Say, Ἰδού, Behold, ὧδε Here 'Is' ὁ The Χριστός, Christ, ἤ, Or Ὧδε, μὴ Here, πιστεύσητε· Believe 'It' Not.
Matt 24:24 ἐγερθήσονται There Will Arise γὰρ For ψευδόχριστοι False Christs καὶ And ψευδοπροφῆται False Prophets, καὶ And δώσουσιν Will Give σημεῖα Signs μεγάλα Great καὶ And τέρατα Wonders, ὥστε So As πλανῆσαι, To Mislead, εἰ If δυνατόν, Possible, καὶ Even τοὺς The ἐκλεκτούς· Elect.
Matt 24:25 ἰδού, Lo, προείρηκα I Have Foretold 'It' ὑμῖν To You.
Matt 24:26 ἐὰν If οὖν Therefore εἴπωσιν They Say ὑμῖν To You, Ἰδού, Behold, ἐν In τῇ The ἐρήμῳ Wilderness ἐστίν, μὴ He Is, ἐξέλθητε· Go Not Forth : Ἰδού, Behold, 'He Is' ἐν In τοῖς The ταμείοις μὴ Chambers, πιστεύσητε· Believe 'It' Not.
Matt 24:27 ὥσπερ γὰρ For As ἡ The ἀστραπὴ Lightning ἐξέρχεται Comes Forth ἀπὸ From 'The' ἀνατολῶν East καὶ And φαίνεται Appears ἕως As Far As 'The' δυσμῶν West, οὕτως So ἔσται Shall Be καὶ Also ἡ The παρουσία Coming τοῦ Of The υἱοῦ Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου· Of Man.
Matt 24:28 ὅπου γὰρ ἐὰν For Wherever ᾖ May Be τὸ The πτῶμα Carcase, ἐκεῖ There συναχθήσονται Will Be Gathered Together οἱ The ἀετοί Eagles.
Matt 24:29 Εὐθέως Immediately δὲ But μετὰ After τὴν The θλῖψιν Tribulation τῶν ἡμερῶν ἐκείνων Of Those Days ὁ The ἥλιος Sun σκοτισθήσεται Shall Be Darkened, καὶ And ἡ The σελήνη Moon οὐ δώσει Shall Not Give τὸ φέγγος αὐτῆς Her Light, καὶ And οἱ The ἀστέρες Stars πεσοῦνται Shall Fall ἀπὸ From τοῦ The οὐρανοῦ Heaven, καὶ And αἱ The δυνάμεις Powers τῶν Of The οὐρανῶν Heavens σαλευθήσονται Shall Be Shaken.
Matt 24:30 καὶ And τότε Then φανήσεται Shall Appear τὸ The σημεῖον Sign τοῦ Of The υἱοῦ Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου Of Man ἐν In τῷ The οὐρανῷ Heaven; καὶ And τότε Then κόψονται Shall Wail πᾶσαι All αἱ The φυλαὶ Tribes τῆς Of The γῆς Land, καὶ And ὄψονται They Shall See τὸν The υἱὸν Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου Of Man, ἐρχόμενον Coming ἐπὶ On τῶν The νεφελῶν Clouds τοῦ οὐρανοῦ Of Heaven μετὰ With δυνάμεως Power καὶ And δόξης Glory πολλῆς· Great.
Matt 24:31 καὶ And ἀποστελεῖ He Shall Send τοὺς ἀγγέλους Angels αὐτοῦ His μετὰ With σάλπιγγος Of A Trumpet φωνῆς Sound μεγάλης Great, καὶ And ἐπισυνάξουσιν They Shall Gather Together τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ His Elect ἐκ From τῶν The τεσσάρων Four ἀνέμων Winds, ἀπ' From 'The' ἄκρων Extremities οὐρανῶν Of 'The' Heavens ἕως To 'The' ἄκρων Extremities αὐτῶν Of Them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jerry N.
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,170
5,147
On the bus to Heaven
✟149,247.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
For affect? Yes the affect,effectually proves the point that
One can clearly see the context is uninterrupted.
Because Grammatically speaking the context is continuous from verse 1 to at least 31 when it speaks of Christ coming with His angels to gather the elect at the end of this world.

How do we know? By His use of words like and, but, then, when wherefore, and so forth. These words connect what is about to be said to what is already said as was already stated to you above. And yes they are in the Greek and are for the most part translated correctly in most of our English translations.

So that means up to Christ's coming in the clouds of glory with His angels Jesus expected His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath. Because no one to whom He was speaking to is alive today to be alive at the time of the tribulation that is not like any before. This tribulation has not happened yet. How do we know?

Because Jesus said Immediately after this tribulation that is shortened so the Elect are preserved, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (vs.29-31)


Matt 24:2 ὁ δὲ But Ἰησοῦς Jesus εἶπεν Said αὐτοῖς To Them, Οὐ βλέπετε See Ye Not πάντα All ταῦτα These Things? ἀμὴν Verily λέγω I Say ὑμῖν To You, οὐ μὴ Not At All ἀφεθῇ Shall Be Left ὧδε Here λίθος Stone ἐπὶ Upon λίθον Stone ὃς οὐ μὴ Which καταλυθήσεται Shall Not Be Thrown Down.
Matt 24:3 Καθημένου δὲ And As Was Sitting αὐτοῦ He ἐπὶ Upon τοῦ The Ὄρους Mount τῶν Ἐλαιῶν Of Olives προσῆλθον Came To αὐτῷ Him οἱ The μαθηταὶ κατ' Disciples ἰδίαν Apart, λέγοντες Saying, Εἰπὲ Tell ἡμῖν Us, πότε When ταῦτα These Things ἔσται Shall Be? καὶ And τί What 'Is' τὸ The σημεῖον Sign τῆς σῆς Of Thy παρουσίας Coming καὶ And τῆς Of The συντελείας Completion τοῦ Of The αἰῶνος Age?
Matt 24:4 καὶ And ἀποκριθεὶς Answering ὁ Ἰησοῦς Jesus εἶπεν Said αὐτοῖς To Them, Βλέπετε Take Heed, μή Lest τις Any One ὑμᾶς You πλανήσῃ· Mislead.
Matt 24:5 πολλοὶ γὰρ For Many ἐλεύσονται Will Come ἐπὶ In τῷ ὀνόματί μου My Name, λέγοντες, Saying, Ἐγώ I εἰμι Am ὁ The Χριστός, Christ; καὶ And πολλοὺς Many πλανήσουσιν They Will Mislead.
Matt 24:6 μελλήσετε δὲ But Ye Shall Be About ἀκούειν To Hear Of πολέμους Wars καὶ And ἀκοὰς Rumours πολέμων· Of Wars. ὁρᾶτε μὴ See, θροεῖσθε· Be Not Disturbed; δεῖ γὰρ For It Is Necessary All 'These' πάντα Things γενέσθαι To Take Place, ἀλλ' But οὔπω Not Yet ἐστὶν Is τὸ The τέλος End.
Matt 24:7 ἐγερθήσεται γὰρ For Shall Rise Up ἔθνος Nation ἐπὶ Against ἔθνος Nation καὶ And βασιλεία Kingdom ἐπὶ Against βασιλείαν Kingdom; καὶ And ἔσονται There Shall Be λιμοὶ Famines καὶ And λοιμοί Pestilences καὶ And σεισμοὶ Earthquakes κατὰ In 'Different' τόπους· Places.
Matt 24:8 πάντα δὲ But All ταῦτα These 'Are' ἀρχὴ A Beginning ὠδίνων Of Throes.
Matt 24:9 τότε Then παραδώσουσιν Will They Deliver Up ὑμᾶς You εἰς To θλῖψιν Tribulation, καὶ And ἀποκτενοῦσιν Will Kill ὑμᾶς You; καὶ And ἔσεσθε Ye Will Be μισούμενοι Hated ὑπὸ By πάντων All τῶν The ἐθνῶν Nations διὰ On Account Of τὸ ὄνομά μου My Name.
Matt 24:10 καὶ And τότε Then σκανδαλισθήσονται Will Be Offended πολλοὶ Many, καὶ And ἀλλήλους One Another παραδώσουσιν They Will Deliver Up καὶ And μισήσουσιν Will Hate ἀλλήλους· One Another;
Matt 24:11 καὶ And πολλοὶ Many ψευδοπροφῆται False Prophets ἐγερθήσονται Will Arise, καὶ And πλανήσουσιν Will Mislead πολλούς· Many;
Matt 24:12 καὶ And διὰ Because τὸ πληθυνθῆναι Shall Have Been Multiplied τὴν ἀνομίαν Lawlessness, ψυγήσεται Will Grow Cold ἡ The ἀγάπη Love τῶν Of The πολλῶν Many;
Matt 24:13δὲ But He Who ὑπομείνας Endures εἰς To 'The' τέλος End οὗτος He σωθήσεται Shall Be Saved.
Matt 24:14 καὶ And κηρυχθήσεται There Shall Be Proclaimed τοῦτο These τὸ εὐαγγέλιον Glad Tidings τῆς Of The βασιλείας Kingdom ἐν In ὅλῃ All τῇ The οἰκουμένῃ Habitable Earth, εἰς For μαρτύριον A Testimony πᾶσιν To All τοῖς The ἔθνεσιν Nations; καὶ And τότε Then ἥξει Shall Come τὸ The τέλος End.
Matt 24:15 Ὅταν When οὖν Therefore ἴδητε Ye Shall See τὸ The βδέλυγμα Abomination τῆς ἐρημώσεως Of Desolation, τὸ Which ῥηθὲν Was Spoken Of διὰ By Δανιὴλ Daniel τοῦ The προφήτου Prophet, ἑστὸς Standing ἐν In 'The' τόπῳ Place ἁγίῳ Holy ὁ he Who ἀναγινώσκων Reads νοείτω Let Him Understand,
Matt 24:16 τότε Then οἱ Those ἐν In τῇ Ἰουδαίᾳ Judea φευγέτωσαν Let Them Flee ἐπί To τὰ The ὄρη Mountains;
Matt 24:17 ὁ He ἐπὶ On τοῦ The δώματος μὴ Housetop καταβαινέτω Let Him Not Come Down ἆραι To Take τι Anything ἐκ Out Of τῆς οἰκίας αὐτοῦ His
House;
Matt 24:18 καὶ And ὁ He ἐν In τῷ The ἀγρῷ μὴ Field ἐπιστρεψάτω Let Him Not Return ὀπίσω Back ἆραι To Take τὰ ἱμάτια Garments αὐτοῦ His.
Matt 24:19 οὐαὶ δὲ But Woe ταῖς ἐν To Those That γαστρὶ ἐχούσαις Are With Child καὶ And ταῖς To Those That θηλαζούσαις Give Suck ἐν In ἐκείναις Those ταῖς ἡμέραις Days.
Matt 24:20 προσεύχεσθε δὲ And (But) Pray ἵνα μὴ That γένηται May Not Be ἡ φυγὴ ὑμῶν Your Flight χειμῶνος In Winter, μηδὲ Nor ἐν On σαββάτῳ Sabbath :
Matt 24:21 ἔσται γὰρ For There Shall Be τότε Then θλῖψις Tribulation μεγάλη Great οἵα Such As οὐ Not γέγονεν Has Been ἀπ' From 'The' ἀρχῆς Beginning κόσμου Of 'The' World ἕως Until τοῦ νῦν Now, οὐδ No, οὐ μὴ Nor Ever γένηται Shall Be;
Matt 24:22 καὶ And εἰ μὴ Unless ἐκολοβώθησαν Had Been Shortened αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι Those Days, οὐκ ἂν Not ἐσώθη There Would Have Been Saved πᾶσα Any σάρξ· Flesh, διὰ δὲ But On Account Of τοὺς The ἐκλεκτοὺς Elect κολοβωθήσονται Shall Be Shortened αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι Those Days.
Matt 24:23 τότε Then ἐάν If τις Anyone ὑμῖν To You εἴπῃ Say, Ἰδού, Behold, ὧδε Here 'Is' ὁ The Χριστός, Christ, ἤ, Or Ὧδε, μὴ Here, πιστεύσητε· Believe 'It' Not.
Matt 24:24 ἐγερθήσονται There Will Arise γὰρ For ψευδόχριστοι False Christs καὶ And ψευδοπροφῆται False Prophets, καὶ And δώσουσιν Will Give σημεῖα Signs μεγάλα Great καὶ And τέρατα Wonders, ὥστε So As πλανῆσαι, To Mislead, εἰ If δυνατόν, Possible, καὶ Even τοὺς The ἐκλεκτούς· Elect.
Matt 24:25 ἰδού, Lo, προείρηκα I Have Foretold 'It' ὑμῖν To You.
Matt 24:26 ἐὰν If οὖν Therefore εἴπωσιν They Say ὑμῖν To You, Ἰδού, Behold, ἐν In τῇ The ἐρήμῳ Wilderness ἐστίν, μὴ He Is, ἐξέλθητε· Go Not Forth : Ἰδού, Behold, 'He Is' ἐν In τοῖς The ταμείοις μὴ Chambers, πιστεύσητε· Believe 'It' Not.
Matt 24:27 ὥσπερ γὰρ For As ἡ The ἀστραπὴ Lightning ἐξέρχεται Comes Forth ἀπὸ From 'The' ἀνατολῶν East καὶ And φαίνεται Appears ἕως As Far As 'The' δυσμῶν West, οὕτως So ἔσται Shall Be καὶ Also ἡ The παρουσία Coming τοῦ Of The υἱοῦ Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου· Of Man.
Matt 24:28 ὅπου γὰρ ἐὰν For Wherever ᾖ May Be τὸ The πτῶμα Carcase, ἐκεῖ There συναχθήσονται Will Be Gathered Together οἱ The ἀετοί Eagles.
Matt 24:29 Εὐθέως Immediately δὲ But μετὰ After τὴν The θλῖψιν Tribulation τῶν ἡμερῶν ἐκείνων Of Those Days ὁ The ἥλιος Sun σκοτισθήσεται Shall Be Darkened, καὶ And ἡ The σελήνη Moon οὐ δώσει Shall Not Give τὸ φέγγος αὐτῆς Her Light, καὶ And οἱ The ἀστέρες Stars πεσοῦνται Shall Fall ἀπὸ From τοῦ The οὐρανοῦ Heaven, καὶ And αἱ The δυνάμεις Powers τῶν Of The οὐρανῶν Heavens σαλευθήσονται Shall Be Shaken.
Matt 24:30 καὶ And τότε Then φανήσεται Shall Appear τὸ The σημεῖον Sign τοῦ Of The υἱοῦ Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου Of Man ἐν In τῷ The οὐρανῷ Heaven; καὶ And τότε Then κόψονται Shall Wail πᾶσαι All αἱ The φυλαὶ Tribes τῆς Of The γῆς Land, καὶ And ὄψονται They Shall See τὸν The υἱὸν Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου Of Man, ἐρχόμενον Coming ἐπὶ On τῶν The νεφελῶν Clouds τοῦ οὐρανοῦ Of Heaven μετὰ With δυνάμεως Power καὶ And δόξης Glory πολλῆς· Great.
Matt 24:31 καὶ And ἀποστελεῖ He Shall Send τοὺς ἀγγέλους Angels αὐτοῦ His μετὰ With σάλπιγγος Of A Trumpet φωνῆς Sound μεγάλης Great, καὶ And ἐπισυνάξουσιν They Shall Gather Together τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ His Elect ἐκ From τῶν The τεσσάρων Four ἀνέμων Winds, ἀπ' From 'The' ἄκρων Extremities οὐρανῶν Of 'The' Heavens ἕως To 'The' ἄκρων Extremities αὐτῶν Of Them.
And you are yet to address my post 502. Also, you are yet to post your credentials as a Greek scholar. Repeating the same c&p is not going to make it true.
 
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
5,130
2,104
59
Alabama
Visit site
✟589,098.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
And you are yet to address my post 502. Also, you are yet to post your credentials as a Greek scholar. Repeating the same c&p is not going to make it true.
What would it matter what I post in reference to me when you are not even addressing or can't address the most basic things posted to you in reference to the Greek?

Lol Certificates, Diplomas and Degrees? I have my friend, but they are paper for display on a wall. More aptly though in a box.

Man's wisdom is foolishness. Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned.

What good did it do the learned, when Jesus was here?
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,170
5,147
On the bus to Heaven
✟149,247.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What would it matter what I post in reference to me when you are not even addressing or can't address the most basic things posted to you in reference to the Greek?
Because you have not addressed my post 502. After all it is suppose to be a two way conversation.
Lol Certificates, Diplomas and Degrees? I have my friend, but they are paper for display on a wall. More aptly though in a box.
Any one of them that make you a Greek scholar?
Man's wisdom is foolishness. Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned.
Naturally.
What good did it do the learned, when Jesus was here?
If you are going to argue hermeneutics and epistemology it would be nice to understand the finer points.
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,885
10,547
79
Auckland
✟451,674.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The New Covenant is God’s law going from written on stone, to being written on the heart

The New Covenant is God Himself dwelling in us and prompting us to righteousness more perfect than the Law could ever deliver.

I guess this will get sorted out soon enough.

1 John 2:27
And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,170
5,147
On the bus to Heaven
✟149,247.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The New Covenant is God Himself dwelling in us and prompting us to righteousness more perfect than the Law could ever deliver.

I guess this will get sorted out soon enough.

1 John 2:27
And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him.
Don’t forget about:

“And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

:wave:
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,885
10,547
79
Auckland
✟451,674.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Don’t forget about:

“And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

:wave:

Yes...

The blood is the life carrier...

His life in us.

That which is not of faith is sin.

Faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ.

The author of the Law guiding us in righteousness.

The Law could never do this.

In practice - here is an example in normal life.

I walk two dogs every day.

A few days ago I was prompted to take a different route.

Sure enough I came upon a couple that had laboured long and hard in life with a disabled son (52)

We shared - they were believers - they needed encouragement.

He was at work.

Walking in the Spirit with Him within, is the prize of the obedient - it is beautiful.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Hentenza
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,419
5,763
USA
✟745,677.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The New Covenant is God Himself dwelling in us and prompting us to righteousness more perfect than the Law could ever deliver.

I guess this will get sorted out soon enough.

1 John 2:27
And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him.
We could go by what God said His covenant is...that's always a choice too.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,170
5,147
On the bus to Heaven
✟149,247.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
We could go by what God said His covenant is...that's always a choice too.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
So you are the house of Israel?
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,419
5,763
USA
✟745,677.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
So you are the house of Israel?
Anyone who is in a covenant relationship with God is part of God's Israel and part of the promise. It was never just literal, as I showed this to you a few times previously through Scripture. I can provide Scriptures, I can make one believe them.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,170
5,147
On the bus to Heaven
✟149,247.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Anyone who is in a covenant relationship with God is part of God's Israel and part of the promise. It was never just literal, as I showed this to you a few times previously through Scripture. I can provide Scriptures, I can make one believe them.
We’ve been through the scriptures before and I don’t agree with your interpretation. Scriptures are clear though that Israel is in a state of unbelief by rejecting the Messiah. We have the promises based on Abraham‘s seed which is 430 years before the law was given. So our promises do not include the Mosaic law that Israel could not keep but led to Jesus sacrifice of the cross in order to fulfilled it.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,419
5,763
USA
✟745,677.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
We’ve been through the scriptures before and I don’t agree with your interpretation. Scriptures are clear though that Israel is in a state of unbelief by rejecting the Messiah. We have the promises based on Abraham‘s seed which is 430 years before the law was given. So our promises do not include the Mosaic law that Israel could not keep but led to Jesus sacrifice of the cross in order to fulfilled it.
Obviously there was a law of God righteousness given before Mt Sinai Gen26:5 Exo20:11 but believe as you wish
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,170
5,147
On the bus to Heaven
✟149,247.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Obviously there was a law of God righteousness given before Mt Sinai Gen26:5 Exo20:11 but believe as you wish
But you can never identify what the commandments or statutes are so it is an assumption.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,419
5,763
USA
✟745,677.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
But you can never identify what the commandments or statutes are so it is an assumption.
God did that clearly, I do not need to. Why Cain knew it was "sin" to kill Abel, only found in the 7th commandment Exo20:13. No law, no sin Rom4:15, therefore God's law existed. If you believe God waited 430 years to tell someone to only worship Him or not take His holy name in vain, that can be your choice. God condemned this before it was codified, just like He condemned breaking the Sabbath before so as well. Obviously He told His people.

I'm not going to debate this further, I believe God when He tells us verbatim what are His commandments and then personally writes them. Exo31:18 Deut4:13 Exo20:6 They belong to Him, its not a debate or at least it should not be, if we believe Him at His word. If anyone would know what are God's commandments, would it not be God, the Creator of all heaven and earth and everything in them Exo20:11 the only God we are told to worship Rev14:7? There's not much more He could have done to make this any clearer. That's the root of the issue here, man wants to tell God what His commandments are, which day is His holy day Isa58:13 Exo20:10, instead of letting God be God. He tells us, not everyone hears.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,170
5,147
On the bus to Heaven
✟149,247.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
God did that clearly, I do not need to. Why Cain knew it was "sin" to kill Abel, only found in the 7th commandment Exo20:13.
No. This is natural law which came out of the fall. No relation to the Mosaic law given 430 years after Abraham. The Bible tells you explicitly in Gal. 3:17. This number has quite the significance Israel since it is the exact amount of years that Israel was in captivity in Egypt (Ex. 12:40-41). No Mosaic law including the 10 commandments was given until Moses.
No law, no sin Rom4:15, therefore God's law existed. If you believe God waited 430 years to tell someone to only worship Him or not take His holy name in vain, that can be your choice. God condemned this before it was codified, just like He condemned breaking the Sabbath before so as well. Obviously He told His people.
This is how God dealt with evil before the law. People of the time knew God but they did not honor Him or give thanks. This is how people discovered wrong not by the law thst came years later.

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them up to vile impurity in the lusts of their hearts, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged natural relations for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise the men, too, abandoned natural relations with women and burned in their desire toward one another, males with males committing shameful acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do those things that are not proper, people having been filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, and evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unfeeling, and unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭32‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,885
10,547
79
Auckland
✟451,674.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We could go by what God said His covenant is...that's always a choice too.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

The person of Christ within brings understanding of the intent of the Law that was never realised.

The Law in human hands failed to achieve a righteous nation in fact it failed miserably.

You quote Heb 8:10 which is a reference to Ezekiel and Jeremiah who prophesied about the New Covenant to come, which would be much more than the written Law but a personal indwelling of God Himself to make sure His chosen would be righteous eternally and never fall away. Jer 32:40.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,419
5,763
USA
✟745,677.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The person of Christ within brings understanding of the intent of the Law that was never realised.

The Law in human hands failed to achieve a righteous nation in fact it failed miserably.

You quote Heb 8:10 which is a reference to Ezekiel and Jeremiah who prophesied about the New Covenant to come, which would be much more than the written Law but a personal indwelling of God Himself to make sure His chosen would be righteous eternally and never fall away. Jer 32:40.
It doesn't change what God placed in our hearts, His laws, if we cooperate with Him. John14:15-18 sadly, not everyone does Rom8:7-8 This is not me saying, its God saying. Heb8:10
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,885
10,547
79
Auckland
✟451,674.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The sad part of all this is that those who push the Law
It doesn't change what God placed in our hearts, His laws, if we cooperate with Him. This is not me saying this, its God saying. Heb8:10

The problem is that our orientation should be towards the Lord not the Law.

He set us free from the curse of the Law and we need to embrace His Life.

Walking with Him in the Spirit more than fulfils the Law

I don't hear you doing or saying this...
 
Upvote 0