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Once you're saved, you don't matter anymore

peaceful-forest

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After I was saved, I attended Baptist churches and non-denominational churches. It seems like at the two Baptist churches, whether it was from leadership or other church members, they had this attitude that once you were saved, you didn't matter anymore. What I mean is that the church has too much of a focus on saving lost people. So if a Christian needs something or wants something, it doesn't matter, because "there are more important things to focus on and there's people going to Hell".

Is this anyone else's experience? Are the pastors and/or leadership being taught something in seminary school/Christian colleges/Bible colleges that is encouraging this kind of behavior? Why is it okay to neglect other parts of the church because "people are going to Hell and need to hear the Gospel"?
 

rebornfree

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I have slightly, in a previous church, but the leader was obsessed with activity. It was a loving church and rightly tried to reach the lost through many ministries. In doing so it occasionally missed the needs of the members.

I appreciate that those of us who are saved have had our greatest need met and the first priority must be the lost, but we should be valuing church members too. Apart from not wanting people to suffer unnecessarily we also lose our 'work force' if a Christian has difficulties which lessens their ability to evangelise or to serve the Lord in other ways. Also the way church members care for each other can be a good witness to those outside.
 
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Delvianna

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Yes because getting unsaved to saved means they get more members which means they get more money. I've seen this A LOT in churches. Pastors aren't pastoring people like they should. That's not to say that all pastors are like that, but I've seen it a lot. There's a focus on bringing people to church, preach on sunday, go home and the church doesn't exist for the next 6 days and that's... it, really.
 
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lismore

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Is this anyone else's experience? Are the pastors and/or leadership being taught something in seminary school/Christian colleges/Bible colleges that is encouraging this kind of behavior?
I have heard complaints from students that Campus Ministries are all over them, Christians wanting to be their friend, but then at a certain point ghosting them. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I did experience it to a certain extent myself, 'love bombing' it used to be called, but it's obviously shallow and they suddenly drop you. I think it might be certain Evangelism programmes from celebrity authors reducing evangelism to a mechanical process rather than a relationship. And of course when you're in the club then your place in equation is to bring new folks into the club, not to have any needs or individuality yourself. It gives the appearance of a Ponzi scheme. God Bless :)
 
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2PhiloVoid

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After I was saved, I attended Baptist churches and non-denominational churches. It seems like at the two Baptist churches, whether it was from leadership or other church members, they had this attitude that once you were saved, you didn't matter anymore. What I mean is that the church has too much of a focus on saving lost people. So if a Christian needs something or wants something, it doesn't matter, because "there are more important things to focus on and there's people going to Hell".

Is this anyone else's experience? Are the pastors and/or leadership being taught something in seminary school/Christian colleges/Bible colleges that is encouraging this kind of behavior? Why is it okay to neglect other parts of the church because "people are going to Hell and need to hear the Gospel"?

What you describe about your experiences is a not uncommon occurrence, due in part to the fact that some seminaries and other theological schools fail to include a substantive amount of counseling skills and pastoring skills. Some 'pastors' get in the pulpit and are basically just one big box of Bible facts on two legs, only good for shooting out theological answers to the questions no one is really asking. Or, they only have Bible verses to toss at those with deep seated difficulties or other issues, and nothing else.
 
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Pepperdoodle

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After I was saved, I attended Baptist churches and non-denominational churches. It seems like at the two Baptist churches, whether it was from leadership or other church members, they had this attitude that once you were saved, you didn't matter anymore. What I mean is that the church has too much of a focus on saving lost people. So if a Christian needs something or wants something, it doesn't matter, because "there are more important things to focus on and there's people going to Hell".

Is this anyone else's experience? Are the pastors and/or leadership being taught something in seminary school/Christian colleges/Bible colleges that is encouraging this kind of behavior? Why is it okay to neglect other parts of the church because "people are going to Hell and need to hear the Gospel"?

Sorry you've experienced that.
I've never had that experience in the Churches we've attended.
We've moved through the years due to job situations being the reason, so have had to find a new Church in each place.
 
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Mark Quayle

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After I was saved, I attended Baptist churches and non-denominational churches. It seems like at the two Baptist churches, whether it was from leadership or other church members, they had this attitude that once you were saved, you didn't matter anymore. What I mean is that the church has too much of a focus on saving lost people. So if a Christian needs something or wants something, it doesn't matter, because "there are more important things to focus on and there's people going to Hell".

Is this anyone else's experience? Are the pastors and/or leadership being taught something in seminary school/Christian colleges/Bible colleges that is encouraging this kind of behavior? Why is it okay to neglect other parts of the church because "people are going to Hell and need to hear the Gospel"?
Whether one attributes it to "gifts of the Spirit", or whatever else, there are people I think of as Evangelists, who's whole mindset seems to be about preaching the gospel, reaching the lost, etc etc. These often even think that is the reason we are here on earth—to add random souls to the fold. It's almost like a club whose charter is to add members to the club. One I know promised God to bring one person a day to the Lord, has developed a method, seems to even think in terms of "closing the sale".

When these people become the leadership of a church, it can get out of hand. Just saying.
 
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Tom8907

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That is not good shepherding of the flock from those pastors.

It reminds me of another concept- some churches get do obsessed with serving the community, they forget the Gospel- and partner with secular charities which they shouldn't.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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After I was saved, I attended Baptist churches and non-denominational churches. It seems like at the two Baptist churches, whether it was from leadership or other church members, they had this attitude that once you were saved, you didn't matter anymore. What I mean is that the church has too much of a focus on saving lost people. So if a Christian needs something or wants something, it doesn't matter, because "there are more important things to focus on and there's people going to Hell".

Is this anyone else's experience? Are the pastors and/or leadership being taught something in seminary school/Christian colleges/Bible colleges that is encouraging this kind of behavior? Why is it okay to neglect other parts of the church because "people are going to Hell and need to hear the Gospel"?
Yes, this is a thing.

It is one reason why churches are having issues.

but it's deeper than that.
 
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David Lamb

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After I was saved, I attended Baptist churches and non-denominational churches. It seems like at the two Baptist churches, whether it was from leadership or other church members, they had this attitude that once you were saved, you didn't matter anymore. What I mean is that the church has too much of a focus on saving lost people. So if a Christian needs something or wants something, it doesn't matter, because "there are more important things to focus on and there's people going to Hell".

Is this anyone else's experience? Are the pastors and/or leadership being taught something in seminary school/Christian colleges/Bible colleges that is encouraging this kind of behavior? Why is it okay to neglect other parts of the church because "people are going to Hell and need to hear the Gospel"?
What a strange attitude on the part of the church! I have been a Baptist ever since I became a Christian, and have not come across such a thing. Of course a church should be concerned with unsaved people, but church members (including the leaders) should be concerned for their fellow church members. Perhaps you need to discuss how you feel with the leaders.
 
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JustaPewFiller

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Honestly, I have seen both.

I've seen churches that were too "inward focused". The members were taken care of. It felt like one big family. The downside was there was little to no outreach. Visitors didn't really feel welcome. Etc. So, the church didn't grow very much (if at all), in fact it started decreasing in membership as people moved or passed away.

I've seen churches that were too "outward focused". It leads to what has been described in the OP and other posts here..

I think to be healthy, a church as to do both.. It has to take care of its members, but it also has to do outreach. There is a balance there..
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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After I was saved, I attended Baptist churches and non-denominational churches. It seems like at the two Baptist churches, whether it was from leadership or other church members, they had this attitude that once you were saved, you didn't matter anymore. What I mean is that the church has too much of a focus on saving lost people. So if a Christian needs something or wants something, it doesn't matter, because "there are more important things to focus on and there's people going to Hell".

Is this anyone else's experience? Are the pastors and/or leadership being taught something in seminary school/Christian colleges/Bible colleges that is encouraging this kind of behavior? Why is it okay to neglect other parts of the church because "people are going to Hell and need to hear the Gospel"?
It is never ok to neglect people in the church, no matter if they are saved or not. And it is not Biblical

Ezekiel 34:2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy, and say to them, even to the shepherds, Thus says the Lord GOD: Ah, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding yourselves! Should not shepherds feed the sheep?

We see that God wants the shepherds to feed His sheep. The leaders of every church must therefore care for the needs of the flock God has given them.

The leaders of the churches you talk about are wrong to neglect their brothers and sisters, especially those that are in need. There is a lot of texts in NT how the leaders ought to behave towards God's flock. They have instructions which are clearly not being followed. I would leave a church were the leaders are neglecting other people.

Are we not commanded to love one another as the Lord loves us? Neglect is not love
 
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com7fy8

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I was in one place where someone said they needed to get more members who would pay tithes. Once, they asked me to have two minutes silence so everyone could pray quietly, and then I was to close with prayer that everyone heard. I clocked the two minutes > after maybe forty seconds ones were squirming and one man looked back over his shoulder. I got worried that the place could break down in pandemonium if I held out for the full two minutes; so I violated it all by doing the prayer starting after maybe the first minute. Then someone even accused me, maybe . . . it seemed . . . of taking too long; so I said I had timed it on my watch. There was a little laugh and that was the end of it. And the end of that church came not long after.

But we had people who were functional in that church, I would say . . . even though a pastor ran out on family and church, departing in the middle of the night, then getting rejected wherever he tried to become a pastor. And he came back and tried to take the pulpit back, but ones managed him on his way. And ones reached to me when I backslid, and I think we had a mature senior deacon.

So, while there may be ones even in leadership, who are no-shows or whatever, there can be the genuine ones who keep caring for the sheep and helping with needs.

And . . . "by the way" > *y*o*u* and **> I <** need to help care for one another and younger children of God. There is plenty in scripture about how to care and share as God's family, and my experience is any of us can do this, no matter what leaders and others are doing.

I think I have seen how there tends to be up-front speaking and not really caring for the sheep. However, during the week, the ladies might have a real Bible prayer group and so it draws in ones of different churches, and non-members contribute ministry and wisdom.

Also, possibly I have seen how a leader can give me a lot of attention, but he seems like he's trying to use me to get more people . . . I never get anything or much about how to grow in Jesus. But I have been with people who nurture and help to correct and mature God's people. So, now I can feed on their example and do this with others, even if leaders are not with it.

And personal pastoring can take time. It can mean sharing for hours with someone who is younger. So, this really might not be for ordained pastors who can have so many people and things to take care of. Truth is, ones can really be building administrators and financial managers who can speak and might know enough scripture for preaching, plus ones do grow up to become real pastors. But I see we need individual "uncalled" people to do personal caring for newborn Christians and others.

And what I think I have seen works best is > you grow in Jesus, get your needed correction, and you mature so now you can feed others from your experience >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

This can work quite well in Christian marriage > you learn how to love so you are relating "without complaining and disputing" (in Philippians 2:13-16) > you get to be committed to being faithful to our Groom Jesus so you do not get into any relating with Satanic stuff in you that would get you to complain or argue. But with God you get rid of that stuff, right when it tries to or does get started in you. And with this we grow in how God's love is. And then is when we can qualify to "take care of the church of God" (in 1 Timothy 3:1-10) as example leaders or example helpers.

However, churches fill pulpits from seminaries, instead of from the seminary of mature marriage. And it can be the "A-personality" people can tend to be "called". But in case you are not "called" because of your becoming gentle and humble and uncontrolling - - - this can keep you free to do what God really has you doing, with "rest for your souls" (in Matthew 11:28-30) > while ones making a lot of things happen can burn out and stress out and be lonely even right while they are so busy with so many people > controlling quantity but without quality.

And in case I have grown to be more with it, at age 78, a senior who is supposed to be mature and now an example for younger ones > I have discovered how I have to fight to stay healthy. Now I am more desirable to people, since I can be more quiet and pleasant and able to speak the word in an encouraging way and help people. But this means more food comes my way, and more invites to eat somewhere. And one time I said, yeah sure I would like to spend some time with someone, but the person got quite aggressive that I had to eat some donut shop stuff > he was not going to let me just sit there while we talked. And a pastor can try to empty a load of pot luck leftover fried chicken and desserts on me.

When ones get especially aggressive, I might say how I have seen the bellies of ones who have socialized too much with food being required. And I have to stay healthy. Ones are now at the doctors for health issues which are because of a life of food abuse. And I do understand that the Holy Spirit's fruit includes self-control.

But even so, I understand that there are other sin problems that I can have, which might not show in the condition of my body > immoral lust can be less obvious > and activities of lust might not put on weight, but immoral lust still can be destructive to keep me from loving and relating the way the Bible says we can in real love. Weakness for pleasure can be weakness also for pain . . . including, in my case, for giving in to paranoid stupidity with its dominating of my attention and canceling me from loving each and every person the way Jesus requires so we are perfect in our Father's love.

I may not gain weight, but the weight of sin can hold me down in other ways.

So, we do not need to spend too much time looking at how certain church culture people are not functioning. With Jesus shepherding us . . . we can care for ourselves right and for one another, and He will make the way in His timing in His precision leading and guiding, so we have time for whatever He wants us to do to minister to ones not maybe functional to minister to us, but this while we share and care with the ones who are with Jesus and how He cares for us >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

By the way > Jesus ministered right where there were Pharisees, in the temple and synagogues plus elsewhere; and He would take His own with Him to that garden where they could resort with Him and one another.

So-o-o . . . perhaps there is a garden where you belong :)
 
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Jermayn

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After I was saved, I attended Baptist churches and non-denominational churches. It seems like at the two Baptist churches, whether it was from leadership or other church members, they had this attitude that once you were saved, you didn't matter anymore. What I mean is that the church has too much of a focus on saving lost people. So if a Christian needs something or wants something, it doesn't matter, because "there are more important things to focus on and there's people going to Hell".

Is this anyone else's experience? Are the pastors and/or leadership being taught something in seminary school/Christian colleges/Bible colleges that is encouraging this kind of behavior? Why is it okay to neglect other parts of the church because "people are going to Hell and need to hear the Gospel"?
It completely depends on how you feel you've been neglected by the leadership.

I am not a pastor, or even in any leadership position at my church, but have a little insight into some common struggles they face. Being a pastor of other member of Church leadership, especially in a larger church, very much means becoming a local celebrity. Everything you do will be scrutinized. Everyone has an opinion on x, y, and z to share. Everyone has some novel insight into scripture they need you to hear. Everyone wants to be best buds. Everyone needs counseling. The list goes on and on.

Not saying any of this is bad, but you can see how it is impossible for one person, or even several, to meet these demands. Also, keep in mind that many of these cases aren't just a one and done thing. Some people want this multiple times per week. Sometimes in the middle of a grocery aisle. Sometimes while you're trying to pick your kid of from school. Sometimes while you're trying to walk your dog, etc., etc., etc.

Not saying that this is what's going on or that this is your case. I just want to point out that a lot of people get hurt or have bad experiences with church because they go into it with an expectation that the pastor or other church leaders are going to answer question, listen to, or just hang out with them whenever they feel like it, not realizing there are sometimes literally hundreds of others with that same expectation, which just isn't possible.

That's why the church members need to get to know and lean on one another. The pastor isn't the only person that can be there in a time of need. We are a large community of people with different gifts. Yes, you will find cliques here and there. You will find people who are unfriendly and/or rude, but the church is made up of imperfect humans, so you just have to be patient, and you will absolutely find like-minded people that you get along with.

Again, not saying any of this is the problem you are facing, but this is a big point of contention within the church.
 
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That is not good shepherding of the flock from those pastors.

It reminds me of another concept- some churches get do obsessed with serving the community, they forget the Gospel- and partner with secular charities which they shouldn't.
I see nothing wrong with partnering with secular charities. I mean you can have a mix. For example a church who partners with a school or a local food bank to hand out food boxes I see nothing wrong with that. I attend a secular organization for people with disabilities ( I have a moderate case of cerebral palsy). I would have no issue with a church partnering with them to do their family dinner or again the monthly food bank. The only thing about that organization at all religious is the fact that we do say a grace before our meals ( which we actually got from another largely secular organization with which we partner).

The only other time I remember anything really religious happening was back in 08 when we lost a camper in the middle of the summer camp season ( their largest program of the year we did pray that first morning back at the full camp morning "flag" as we call it.

Other than that in my twenty-six years of attending camp other programs with that organization there is little to no religion that goes on I see no reason why a church should not partner with an organization like that
 
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