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The sequence of events

Douggg

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This is the sequence of events:

1. the resurrection/rapture event.
2. then the great tribulation - time of the beast
3. then Jesus returns to earth - with His bride
4. then the martyred great tribulation saints will be resurrected.
5. then the 1000 years of Revelation 20 take place.


first reusrecction.jpg
 

Douggg

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Thanks for this! I will use this, if you don't mind, when talking to my church about the rapture.
Certainly, show the sequence with the chart at your church.
 
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keras

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Certainly, show the sequence with the chart at your church.
And confuse and delude everyone.
Neither 1 Thess 4:14-18 or 1 Thess 5:9-11, say people will go to live in heaven.
1/ is a Prophecy about what happens when Jesus Returns. The faithful people will go with Jesus to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31
2/ is a general encouragement for our daily lives now. Jesus is with us Spiritually. Until the end of the age. Matthew 28:19-20

What Pastors should preach, is how we must stand firm in our faith, as we pass through all that is going to happen. 1 Peter 4:12
 
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ChubbyCherub

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And confuse and delude everyone.
Neither 1 Thess 4:14-18 or 1 Thess 5:9-11, say people will go to live in heaven.
1/ is a Prophecy about what happens when Jesus Returns. The faithful people will go with Jesus to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31
2/ is a general encouragement for our daily lives now. Jesus is with us Spiritually. Until the end of the age. Matthew 28:19-20

What Pastors should preach, is how we must stand firm in our faith, as we pass through all that is going to happen. 1 Peter 4:12
I don't know if my church believes in the rapture. That is what the discussion is going to be about i.e. their stance. I was raised believing in the rapture but not sure I believe in it now.
 
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keras

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My response is; Know the truth and it will set you free.

While the fond imaginings of the 'rapture to heaven' believers is an easy and nice anticipation for them, when it doesn't happen, as the world faces disaster, Zephaniah 3:8, Revelation6:12-17, their not knowing which way to turn; Luke 21:25-26, will make it very difficult for them.

CC, may I suggest you look at the articles on the rapture theory on; www.logostelos.info
 
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JulieB67

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I don't know if my church believes in the rapture. That is what the discussion is going to be about i.e. their stance. I was raised believing in the rapture but not sure I believe in it now.
Hello :)
I was raised in a church that taught a pretribulation rapture as well and it is not biblical. So it's good that you're questioning the teaching. Many of us have been down that same road.

I do know that both Christ and Paul give out strict warnings on not to be deceived about the Lord's return/our gathering back to him. So it's very important.

The disciples asks for signs of the end of the world/age and he lays them out. And Paul nails down the timing in 2nd Thes chapter 2. The Thessalonians were confused by most likely his first letter and he wrote the second one and tells us what must happen before our gathering back together.

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

II Thessalonians 2:2
"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away (
apostasy in the Greek) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
 
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DarylFawcett

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This is the sequence of events:

1. the resurrection/rapture event.
2. then the great tribulation - time of the beast
3. then Jesus returns to earth - with His bride
4. then the martyred great tribulation saints will be resurrected.
5. then the 1000 years of Revelation 20 take place.


View attachment 372761
The "Taken to heaven" part of the "resurrection/rapture" in connection with 1 Thess 4:14-18 doesn't make sense to me, as it comes across to me as being "a secret rapture" which I question, as the sequence doesn't look biblical to me.
 
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Douggg

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The "Taken to heaven" part of the "resurrection/rapture" in connection with 1 Thess 4:14-18 doesn't make sense to me, as it comes across to me as being "a secret rapture" which I question, as the sequence doesn't look biblical to me.
I don't know what you mean by "a secret rapture" ?

1Thessalonians4:15-18 is both a resurrection and rapture event.
 
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DarylFawcett

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I don't know what you mean by "a secret rapture" ?

1Thessalonians4:15-18 is both a resurrection and rapture event.
Isn't it also a visibly Second Coming event?
 
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Douggg

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Isn't it also a visibly Second Coming event?
If you are referring to the resurrection/rapture event of 1Thessalonians4:14-18 as being time to take place the day of Jesus's return - then no, the resurrection/rapture event will take place before then.

The resurrection/rapture event will be the redemption of bodies.



rapture timing chart b.jpg




the great tribulation length 4.jpg
 
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1Tonne

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People who believe in an early rapture, that is, the snatching up of believers either before, during or straight after the Tribulation, often point to 1 Thessalonians 4:15–18. They read it as teaching that the dead in Christ rise first to meet with Christ, and then immediately afterwards, those who are alive are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. So, a rapture for all believers who are both dead and alive and they meet with the Lord in the air.

But Jesus Himself taught something different. Several times, He said believers are raised on the last day and not before. This is the end of earthly time, when He judges the world at the Great White Throne judgment.
John 6:39 – And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 – For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:44 – No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54 – The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24 – Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

So, when does anyone rise before the last day? Only in the case of the martyrs. Revelation 20:4-6 speaks of an early resurrection for those who are killed for their faith. They are given white robes (Rev 6:9-11) and are raised and reign with Christ for 1,000 years, but the rest of the dead are not raised until the last day of time.
With this in mind, 1 Thessalonians 4:15–18 makes sense: “the dead in Christ” are raised first (the martyrs), and then at the last day of time, those who are left alive (and anyone in the grave) are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds and all go to judgment at the GWT judgement.

It is clear, then, that all believers are raised on the last day, while only martyrs are raised early.
On the last day, the dead, both believers and unbelievers alike, are raised and judged.
Acts 24:15 confirms this when it says "a" resurrection: “I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.” This points to a single resurrection of all the dead, not two separate resurrections.

And Jesus also said that there will be a time when all believers and non-believers are raised and judged. In John 5:28–29 He says: “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
 
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Douggg

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Only in the case of the martyrs. Revelation 20:4-6 speaks of an early resurrection for those who are killed for their faith.
Revelation 20 does not mention any change, translation, of the living in Christ - the rapture.
 
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1Tonne

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Revelation 20 does not mention any change, translation, of the living in Christ - the rapture.
Correct. The living are not raised until the last day. Only the martyrs are raised first (Rev 20).
As in 1 Thes 4, the dead rise first (the martyrs), which is the first resurrection in Rev 20. No other person, believe or non-believer, alive or dead is raised.
As Jesus said, believers are raised on the last day.
 
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Douggg

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Correct. The living are not raised until the last day. Only the martyrs are raised first (Rev 20).
As in 1 Thes 4, the dead rise first (the martyrs), which is the first resurrection in Rev 20. No other person, believe or non-believer, alive or dead is raised.
As Jesus said, believers are raised on the last day.
The resurrection/rapture event is also in 1Thessalonians5:9-11.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.



rapture timing chart b.jpg
 
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Douggg

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Correct. The living are not raised until the last day.
Your statement is incorrect. "raised" is referring to resurrection of dead persons, i.e their bodies raised (resurrected) from being dead.

Differently, "rapture" is referring to sudden change of living persons (living Christians) from their mortal bodies to eternal immortal bodies.
 
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1Tonne

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The resurrection/rapture event is also in 1Thessalonians5:9-11.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
1 Thes 5:9-11 simply says that those whom He has chosen are not appointed to condemnation on the last day because we have security in what Jesus did on the cross. So, we live with Him today and forevermore.
Nothing about rapture in that unless you want to read into more than what the text is actually saying.
Differently, "rapture" is referring to sudden change of living persons (living Christians) from their mortal bodies to eternal immortal bodies.
Jesus consistently teaches that the resurrection happens on the last day (John 6:39–40, 44, 54; John 11:24).
Your reading of 1 Thessalonians 4-15-18 requires a resurrection of dead believers before the last day, followed by living believers being taken up, and then a further 1,000 years of history.
That creates a sequence Jesus never teaches and directly contradicts His repeated claim that the dead are raised on the last day.
 
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Douggg

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1 Thes 5:9-11 simply says that those whom He has chosen are not appointed to condemnation on the last day because we have security in what Jesus did on the cross. So, we live with Him today and forevermore.
Nothing about rapture in that unless you want to read into more than what the text is actually saying.
No, 1Thessalonian5:9-11 is not referring to the last day.

Separately, in Revelation 20:11-15 for the GWT judgement, there will be a resurrection of the dead on the last day, with some resurrected to eternal life, and others to eternal condemnation.

1Thessalonians5:9-11 has to be read in context of the prior verses of 1Thessalonians5:1-8.

The unsaved world will be saying "peace and safety" (shown on my chart below). Which that mindset will be shattered and a time of sudden destruction will over take the world, they shall not escape. In other words, they will not escape the great tribulation, when God's wrath will be poured out.

The resurrection/rapture will take place before then.

The peace and safety mindset will be due the world being in a false messianic age - of the Antichrist - King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah. The Antichrist shatters that peace and safety illusion when he goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.


rapture timing chart b.jpg
 
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Douggg

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@1Tonne

There will be three mass resurrection events.

1. the resurrection/rapture event before the great tribulation begins. 1Thessalonians5:9-11. To eternal life.

2. following the great tribulation, and Jesus's return, the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints. Revelation 20:4-6.
to eternal life.

3. the resurrection on the last day for the GWT judgment. Revelation 20:11-15. Some to eternal life. Some to eternal condemnation.
 
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