• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Matthew Dowd Fired from MSNBC For Vile Comments Blaming Charlie Kirk For Assassination

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
44,040
47,062
Los Angeles Area
✟1,050,688.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
The first amendment indeed applies to all people.
No it applies to the government. The government cannot punish speech it doesn't like. Such as firing an employee for non-work-related speech.
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
42,630
20,463
Finger Lakes
✟328,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It can incite a MURDERER.
Potato, potahto.
It is approving of murdering
How so? Which of his words is approving of murdering? You've seen the actual words at least twice now, so which ones are in any way approving murder in general or Kirk's murder specifically?
He said Kirks speech was the cause of his murder.
No. He said hateful words lead to hateful actions - how is that approving? That is very similar to "live by the sword, die by the sword" (ref: Matt. 26:52).
The same goes for employees of "WE", the public. We pay their wages.
We the public pay taxes to people who have First Amendment rights. You don't have to associate with them; just let them do their jobs free from partisanship.
Why on earth would anyone want to associate with someone who believes it is ok to kill someone they don't like? It is insane!
First, that does not describe Dowd's views, i.e. straw man. Second, you can associate with whomever you choose, according to your preferences.
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,471
2,660
✟282,941.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
No it applies to the government. The government cannot punish speech it doesn't like. Such as firing an employee for non-work-related speech.
This is not punishing speech. Nobody charged him with a crime!
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,471
2,660
✟282,941.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Potato, potahto.

How so? Which of his words is approving of murdering? You've seen the actual words at least twice now, so which ones are in any way approving murder in general or Kirk's murder specifically?

No. He said hateful words lead to hateful actions - how is that approving? That is very similar to "live by the sword, die by the sword" (ref: Matt. 26:52).

We the public pay taxes to people who have First Amendment rights. You don't have to associate with them; just let them do their jobs free from partisanship.

First, that does not describe Dowd's views, i.e. straw man. Second, you can associate with whomever you choose, according to your preferences.
Nobodies first amendment rights can be taken away. Be they a private employee, or Public...
.Nobody has charged him with a crime for his speech.
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
44,040
47,062
Los Angeles Area
✟1,050,688.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
This is not punishing speech. Nobody charged him with a crime!
Being fired is a punishment.

Pickering v. Board of Education

The dismissal of a public school teacher for public statements regarding issues of public importance, without a showing that his statements were knowingly or recklessly false, violated his First Amendment right to free speech.
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,471
2,660
✟282,941.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Being fired is a punishment.

Pickering v. Board of Education

The dismissal of a public school teacher for public statements regarding issues of public importance, without a showing that his statements were knowingly or recklessly false, violated his First Amendment right to free speech.
Then nobody can be fired anywhere. Public employee or not. Stop the bull!
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

I march with Sherman
Mar 11, 2017
23,018
17,152
55
USA
✟434,165.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Then nobody can be fired anywhere. Public employee or not. Stop the bull!
We would ask the same. Stop it. Your argument is specious.

Talking or not talking about some loser like Charlie Kirk and whether he is dead or not is not part of almost anyone's job. There for it is not generally grounds for dismissal. Doing your job poorly is grounds for dismissal. Not being able to be fired for saying who Kirk was is not the same as being protected from doing your job poorly.
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
42,630
20,463
Finger Lakes
✟328,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Nobodies first amendment rights can be taken away. Be they a private employee, or Public...
.Nobody has charged him with a crime for his speech.
So you can't actually say what words of his condoned murder? You've seen and quoted his words at least twice, but you seem to be unable to point to the exact phrase because they don't exist.

First Amendment rights can be violated and it appears that Dowd's have been by the government punishing him for private, protected speech.
Then nobody can be fired anywhere. Public employee or not.
That doesn't follow. You lack a good understanding of the issue: for instance, in an at will employment state, an employer can fire you for no reason, but not for an illegal reason such as race, sex, ethnicity or religion. Public employees can be fired for many reasons including insubordination but not for their speech off the job (with certain exceptions).
Stop the bull!
:rolleyes: Maybe try to understand the point being made before dismissing it out of hand?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

RocksInMyHead

God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!
May 12, 2011
9,696
10,505
PA
✟455,841.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
First Amendment rights can be violated and it appears that Dowd's have been by the government punishing him for private, protected speech.
Point of clarification - Dowd (the MSNBC commentator) is not one of the people who are alleging wrongful termination. MSNBC is well within its rights, as a private company, to fire him for his speech.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
42,630
20,463
Finger Lakes
✟328,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Point of clarification - Dowd (the MSNBC commentator) is not one of the people who are alleging wrongful termination. MSNBC is well within its rights, as a private company, to fire him for his speech.
Shame on me for not checking again. Thanks for the correction.
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
8,471
2,660
✟282,941.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
So you can't actually say what words of his condoned murder? You've seen and quoted his words at least twice, but you seem to be unable to point to the exact phrase because they don't exist.

First Amendment rights can be violated and it appears that Dowd's have been by the government punishing him for private, protected speech.

That doesn't follow. You lack a good understanding of the issue: for instance, in an at will employment state, an employer can fire you for no reason, but not for an illegal reason such as race, sex, ethnicity or religion. Public employees can be fired for many reasons including insubordination but not for their speech off the job (with certain exceptions).

:rolleyes: Maybe try to understand the point being made before dismissing it out of hand?
It is obvious. Done with this game.
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
42,630
20,463
Finger Lakes
✟328,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It is obvious. Done with this game.
So obvious you have failed each and every time I requested that you point out the exact words or phrases that would make your point, even though you were provided with the allegedly offensive post twice verbatim. Flouncing out is not a winner's move...
 
Upvote 0