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Isaiah 43:10 Doesn't Say that YHWH wasn't "Formed"

Eldeah

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In Isaiah 43:10 we read:
"“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,​
“and my servant whom I have chosen,​
so that you may know and believe me​
and understand that I am he.​
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me."​

This doesn't exclude that the speaker from being formed. (The hebrew word used in the sentence is Yatsar.)
Which in my opinion is beautiful if the Creator himself is Formed just like humanity was according to Genesis 2:7:

"Then the Lord God formed a man from the​
dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils​
the breath of life, and the man became a living being."​
Also in this sense we are way closer to G'd as we dare to believe.
 

Reluctant Theologian

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In Isaiah 43:10 we read:
"“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,​
“and my servant whom I have chosen,​
so that you may know and believe me​
and understand that I am he.​
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me."​

This doesn't exclude that the speaker from being formed. (The hebrew word used in the sentence is Yatsar.)
Which in my opinion is beautiful if the Creator himself is Formed just like humanity was according to Genesis 2:7:
"Then the Lord God formed a man from the​
dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils​
the breath of life, and the man became a living being."​
Also in this sense we are way closer to G'd as we dare to believe.
That verse emphasises YHWH is First and Last .... and no (other) God/El came before him, it does not say or imply at all YHWH Himself was formed. Logically it does not make sense to have a Creator who Himself has been formed as that would make the creator a creature. So I can't agree to your line of thinking based on this section in Isaiah.

The phrase ' .. nor will there be one after me' is future tense, it doesn't refer to after some kind of formation event for YHWH.
 
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Eldeah

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That verse emphasises YHWH is First and Last .... and no (other) God/El came before him, it does not say or imply at all YHWH Himself was formed. Logically it does not make sense to have a Creator who Himself has been formed as that would make the creator a creature. So I can't agree to your line of thinking based on this section in Isaiah.

The phrase ' .. nor will there be one after me' is future tense, it doesn't refer to after some kind of formation event for YHWH.
Thank you for your answer.

"Logically it does not make sense to have a Creator who Himself has been formed as that would make the creator a creature."​
"A Creator" can be formed. Look at humanity... We create stuff all the time.
I am not saying that it "Implies" that YHWH was formed, but it also doesn't say that YHWH wasn't formed.

"The phrase ' .. nor will there be one after me' is future tense, it doesn't refer to after some kind of formation event for YHWH."​
Maybe we need to read the verse in its Original language.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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In Isaiah 43:10 we read:
"“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,​
“and my servant whom I have chosen,​
so that you may know and believe me​
and understand that I am he.​
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me."​

This doesn't exclude that the speaker from being formed. (The hebrew word used in the sentence is Yatsar.)
Which in my opinion is beautiful if the Creator himself is Formed just like humanity was according to Genesis 2:7:
"Then the Lord God formed a man from the​
dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils​
the breath of life, and the man became a living being."​
Also in this sense we are way closer to G'd as we dare to believe.
Another good example of how people can see things in a phrase that is not there.
"The water is wet." Therefore, it must mean that everything else is not wet, else why the distinction?
If you are of a mind, you can prove anything you want.
 
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Reluctant Theologian

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Thank you for your answer.

"Logically it does not make sense to have a Creator who Himself has been formed as that would make the creator a creature."​
"A Creator" can be formed. Look at humanity... We create stuff all the time.
I am not saying that it "Implies" that YHWH was formed, but it also doesn't say that YHWH wasn't formed.

"The phrase ' .. nor will there be one after me' is future tense, it doesn't refer to after some kind of formation event for YHWH."​
Maybe we need to read the verse in its Original language.
The whole point of the section is not the (alleged) formation of YHWH, it's outside of YHWH' existence no (other) God/El is formed .. and as YHWH is First and Last, that encompasses everything. In other words: all formation is during/under His reign/control.

Reading the phrase ' .. nor will there be one after me' in Hebrew yields the same:

1762321765258.png


Why are you looking for ways to support your idea YHWH was formed? What is the unspoken motive behind that? AFAIK no theologian in the history of Christianity has ever subscribed to that idea. Just wondering ..
 
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Eldeah

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Why are you looking for ways to support your idea YHWH was formed? What is the unspoken motive behind that? AFAIK no theologian in the history of Christianity has ever subscribed to that idea. Just wondering ..
So in the synagogue where I go to, I stated the same question. The Rabbi said on the Isaiah verse: "In Hebrew you can interpreted the verse to mean that HaShem is the only deity that was "formed" or "crafted,". But it is better to take interpret it in the meaning of unlike idols, the true God was not created."

Why are you looking for ways to support your idea YHWH was formed?
I am not looking for ways to support that YHWH was formed. I think a lot of the first 3 chapters of genesis especially the creation(gen1) and formation(gen2) of humanity reflects what happened to YHWH and his Wisdom themselves.
 
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Reluctant Theologian

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So in the synagogue where I go to, I stated the same question. The Rabbi said on the Isaiah verse: "In Hebrew you can interpreted the verse to mean that HaShem is the only deity that was "formed" or "crafted,". But it is better to take interpret it in the meaning of unlike idols, the true God was not created."


I am not looking for ways to support that YHWH was formed. I think a lot of the first 3 chapters of genesis especially the creation(gen1) and formation(gen2) of humanity reflects what happened to YHWH and his Wisdom themselves.
Assuming YHWH was formed (based on very thin assumptions) only creates another logical problem - who formed Him then? I'd stick with the common and easiest view and use my time/energy for more pressing Theological or Sanctification or Life issues.

What synagogue is that btw if I may ask? In what town?
 
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