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Matthew Dowd Fired from MSNBC For Vile Comments Blaming Charlie Kirk For Assassination

essentialsaltes

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The first amendment indeed applies to all people.
No it applies to the government. The government cannot punish speech it doesn't like. Such as firing an employee for non-work-related speech.
 
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DaisyDay

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It can incite a MURDERER.
Potato, potahto.
It is approving of murdering
How so? Which of his words is approving of murdering? You've seen the actual words at least twice now, so which ones are in any way approving murder in general or Kirk's murder specifically?
He said Kirks speech was the cause of his murder.
No. He said hateful words lead to hateful actions - how is that approving? That is very similar to "live by the sword, die by the sword" (ref: Matt. 26:52).
The same goes for employees of "WE", the public. We pay their wages.
We the public pay taxes to people who have First Amendment rights. You don't have to associate with them; just let them do their jobs free from partisanship.
Why on earth would anyone want to associate with someone who believes it is ok to kill someone they don't like? It is insane!
First, that does not describe Dowd's views, i.e. straw man. Second, you can associate with whomever you choose, according to your preferences.
 
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ralliann

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No it applies to the government. The government cannot punish speech it doesn't like. Such as firing an employee for non-work-related speech.
This is not punishing speech. Nobody charged him with a crime!
 
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ralliann

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Potato, potahto.

How so? Which of his words is approving of murdering? You've seen the actual words at least twice now, so which ones are in any way approving murder in general or Kirk's murder specifically?

No. He said hateful words lead to hateful actions - how is that approving? That is very similar to "live by the sword, die by the sword" (ref: Matt. 26:52).

We the public pay taxes to people who have First Amendment rights. You don't have to associate with them; just let them do their jobs free from partisanship.

First, that does not describe Dowd's views, i.e. straw man. Second, you can associate with whomever you choose, according to your preferences.
Nobodies first amendment rights can be taken away. Be they a private employee, or Public...
.Nobody has charged him with a crime for his speech.
 
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essentialsaltes

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This is not punishing speech. Nobody charged him with a crime!
Being fired is a punishment.

Pickering v. Board of Education

The dismissal of a public school teacher for public statements regarding issues of public importance, without a showing that his statements were knowingly or recklessly false, violated his First Amendment right to free speech.
 
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ralliann

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Being fired is a punishment.

Pickering v. Board of Education

The dismissal of a public school teacher for public statements regarding issues of public importance, without a showing that his statements were knowingly or recklessly false, violated his First Amendment right to free speech.
Then nobody can be fired anywhere. Public employee or not. Stop the bull!
 
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Hans Blaster

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Then nobody can be fired anywhere. Public employee or not. Stop the bull!
We would ask the same. Stop it. Your argument is specious.

Talking or not talking about some loser like Charlie Kirk and whether he is dead or not is not part of almost anyone's job. There for it is not generally grounds for dismissal. Doing your job poorly is grounds for dismissal. Not being able to be fired for saying who Kirk was is not the same as being protected from doing your job poorly.
 
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DaisyDay

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Nobodies first amendment rights can be taken away. Be they a private employee, or Public...
.Nobody has charged him with a crime for his speech.
So you can't actually say what words of his condoned murder? You've seen and quoted his words at least twice, but you seem to be unable to point to the exact phrase because they don't exist.

First Amendment rights can be violated and it appears that Dowd's have been by the government punishing him for private, protected speech.
Then nobody can be fired anywhere. Public employee or not.
That doesn't follow. You lack a good understanding of the issue: for instance, in an at will employment state, an employer can fire you for no reason, but not for an illegal reason such as race, sex, ethnicity or religion. Public employees can be fired for many reasons including insubordination but not for their speech off the job (with certain exceptions).
Stop the bull!
:rolleyes: Maybe try to understand the point being made before dismissing it out of hand?
 
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RocksInMyHead

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First Amendment rights can be violated and it appears that Dowd's have been by the government punishing him for private, protected speech.
Point of clarification - Dowd (the MSNBC commentator) is not one of the people who are alleging wrongful termination. MSNBC is well within its rights, as a private company, to fire him for his speech.
 
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DaisyDay

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Point of clarification - Dowd (the MSNBC commentator) is not one of the people who are alleging wrongful termination. MSNBC is well within its rights, as a private company, to fire him for his speech.
Shame on me for not checking again. Thanks for the correction.
 
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ralliann

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So you can't actually say what words of his condoned murder? You've seen and quoted his words at least twice, but you seem to be unable to point to the exact phrase because they don't exist.

First Amendment rights can be violated and it appears that Dowd's have been by the government punishing him for private, protected speech.

That doesn't follow. You lack a good understanding of the issue: for instance, in an at will employment state, an employer can fire you for no reason, but not for an illegal reason such as race, sex, ethnicity or religion. Public employees can be fired for many reasons including insubordination but not for their speech off the job (with certain exceptions).

:rolleyes: Maybe try to understand the point being made before dismissing it out of hand?
It is obvious. Done with this game.
 
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DaisyDay

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It is obvious. Done with this game.
So obvious you have failed each and every time I requested that you point out the exact words or phrases that would make your point, even though you were provided with the allegedly offensive post twice verbatim. Flouncing out is not a winner's move...
 
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essentialsaltes

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State employees fired over Charlie Kirk posts inundate courts
State government employees are taking to the courts after being fired over social media posts criticizing conservative activist Charlie Kirk upon his assassination.

Former federal employee sues government after allegedly being fired for Facebook comments about Kirk's assassination

The U.S. Coast Guard contractor alleges he was fired "in retaliation for his private speech on a matter of significant national interest and attention," violating his First Amendment rights, according to the lawsuit.

According to the lawsuit, Cogar emailed McGill about alleged "inappropriate behavior" from a Coast Guard contractor on Sept. 17. McGill then contacted the office of the chief security officer about "a social media post linked to Peter Souders," asking it to confirm if he was a DHS contractor.

After receiving confirmation, McGill allegedly ordered DHS and Coast Guard personnel to "execute all necessary offboarding and access termination actions without delay," the lawsuit states.

The lawsuit argues that "Nowhere on his Facebook page does Mr. Souders identify himself as a government contractor or employee."

In a statement, [lawyer] Zaid said federal employees reserve the right to "hold and express private views on topics without fear that the government might disagree."
 
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