Harvard conservative magazine is suspended by its own board after publishing article laced with Nazi rhetoric

Chesterton · Nov 4, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
Even today, many people have a perplexing difficulty distinguishing Jews from Israel.

I'm well aware that the land we call Israel rightfully belongs to the Natufians.

Chesterton · Nov 4, 2025

durangodawood said:
America is a cultural mish mosh, and thats the way its supposed to be.

Supposed to be according to who?

durangodawood said:
Otoh if France and Britain wanted to stay "pure" they could have refrained from functionally annexing all sorts of places around the globe.

Annexing a place does not bring its inhabitants to your soil.

Chesterton · Nov 4, 2025

iluvatar5150 said:
Yes.

lol, would be fun to see you do that to their faces in real life.

durangodawood · Nov 4, 2025

Chesterton said:
Supposed to be according to who?

Supposed to be as a natural consequence of its history and founding ideals.

Chesterton said:
Annexing a place does not bring its inhabitants to your soil.

It appears that it does, at least if the situation endures.

Chesterton · Nov 4, 2025

durangodawood said:
Supposed to be as a natural consequence of its history and founding ideals.

You might to brush up on its history and legal history. As for founding ideals, you may have a point, but the subsequent laws and immigration policies shows that people understood the ideals differently than you.

durangodawood said:
It appears that it does, at least if the situation endures.

The current situation began post-colonial, in the 1960's.

rambot · Nov 4, 2025

Chesterton said:
Would you say that to the Cherokee and Comanches, etc.?

They aren't where they are by THEIR "choice", really.

ThatRobGuy · Nov 4, 2025

rambot said:
I always teach my kids in LA that "when I writer writes, they purposefully choose EVERY SINGLE Word and IDEA that they include in their writing."

Why would you assume that author did NOT choose those phrases EXACTLY for that reason? HE's at Harvard; clearly he's an accomplished writer.

In these types of situations though, even if an author is carefully choosing words... if a subset of the population is already determined to label an idea as "Hitler-ish", is the wording really going to matter?

For instance...

What would be the politically correct, and carefully worded, way to express the sentiments of?
"It's okay to be proud of your heritage, and want to preserve the culture of your country"
and
"Fundamentalist Islam and Westernized Society are incompatible"

The author's statements certainly conveyed the idea of Nationalism... as noted, Hitler actually ripped off that "France is for the French, America is for Americans" from earlier Nationalism sentiments that existed in the two nations back in the 1800's.

But Nationalism shouldn't be conflated with Nazism. Hitler's agenda encompassed a whole lot more than just Nationalism.

Is there an "appropriate way" to be a Nationalist? If someone's answer is "No", and it's going to be viewed as "Hitler-adjacent" no matter the phrasing, then there's no much of a point in getting hung up on the phrasing.

Chesterton · Nov 4, 2025

rambot said:
They aren't where they are by THEIR "choice", really.

No they aren't, and if they don't like it they should just stop being so racist and insular.

rambot · Nov 4, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
In these types of situations though, even if an author is carefully choosing words... if a subset of the population is already determined to label an idea as "Hitler-ish", is the wording really going to matter?

Does it help if you use the same phrasing as Hitler used?

I'm just not sure that Harvard was censoring the paper because of what the READER "chose to understand".

ThatRobGuy said:
For instance...

What would be the politically correct, and carefully worded, way to express the sentiments of?
"It's okay to be proud of your heritage, and want to preserve the culture of your country"
and
"Fundamentalist Islam and Westernized Society are incompatible"

The author's statements certainly conveyed the idea of Nationalism... as noted, Hitler actually ripped off that "France is for the French, America is for Americans" from earlier Nationalism sentiments that existed in the two nations back in the 1800's.

But Nationalism shouldn't be conflated with Nazism. Hitler's agenda encompassed a whole lot more than just Nationalism.

Why shouldn't it be conflated with NAzism? It certainly was a part of the ethos; though certainly it was more complex than that.

ThatRobGuy said:
Is there an "appropriate way" to be a Nationalist? If someone's answer is "No", and it's going to be viewed as "Hitler-adjacent" no matter the phrasing, then there's no much of a point in getting hung up on the phrasing.

durangodawood · Nov 4, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
....Is there an "appropriate way" to be a Nationalist? If someone's answer is "No", and it's going to be viewed as "Hitler-adjacent" no matter the phrasing, then there's no much of a point in getting hung up on the phrasing.

The phrasing indicates youre getting your ideas from a sympathetic study of Hitler - or others engaged in that pursuit. That gives the "Hitler adjacent" accusation some weight where otherwise it might be dismissable.

durangodawood · Nov 4, 2025

Chesterton said:
You might to brush up on its history and legal history.

USA very early on brought people into its fold who were from places very culturally different from anglo Europe. Acutally that was underway well before the founding. We also annexed in loads of diverse Indian territories and hispanic territories. Americas formation set up a multicultural scenario.

Chesterton said:
As for founding ideals, you may have a point, but the subsequent laws and immigration policies shows that people understood the ideals differently than you.

People have a tribal impulse within them. I dont deny that.

Chesterton said:
The current situation began post-colonial, in the 1960's.

I figured immigration from colonies reflected a sense of moral debt on the part of the colonizer in some way. But I actually dont know this for sure.

RocksInMyHead · Nov 4, 2025

Chesterton said:
@essentialsaltes @bèlla @ThatRobGuy @rambot @RocksInMyHead

Since ya'll are discussing the article, I assume you've read it. I can't find it. Could someone please give me a link?

I have not been able to find the article either - the best I've been able to do is read the articles commenting on it, which quote it. Those quotes (which are also present in the OP) are what I've discussed.

Chesterton · Nov 4, 2025

durangodawood said:
USA very early on brought people into its fold who were from places very culturally different from anglo Europe. Acutally that was underway well before the founding. We also annexed in loads of diverse Indian territories and hispanic territories. Americas formation set up a multicultural scenario.

The Spanish were here first. The British and French came later and ended up fighting a war against each other. Then you had Dutch, Swedish, German, but they were all white-skinned. Transportation was not what it is today. It was taken for granted that the colonies would remain white European. If that's racist, then the Native Americans were also racist, as is everyone on Earth. I'm 100% certain that the inhabitants of Saudi Arabia want Arabia to stay Arabian.

durangodawood said:
People have a tribal impulse within them. I dont deny that.

Do you think that's a bad thing? Groups of individuals like different things. As a teenager I was fascinated by how there were always very few (if any) black folks at a hard rock concert. And a friend and I went to hear Stanley Clarke play. He and I were the only white people there (well, he was Mexican). Several black folks literally looked down their noses at us, but that could be due to the fact that they were all dressed up in fine evening clothes and we were in jeans and t-shirts.

You see it in churches and prisons. In my town I've driven by an African Baptist Church, a Korean Baptist Church, a Church of Myanmar, etc. Those people could go to any church, but they choose to be around their own kind. And I think it's common knowledge that prisoners largely self-segregate along racial lines.

I had some Romanian food at a festival awhile back. It was combinations of stuff I'm not used to, and I'll just say I'm glad I don't live in Romania. :sick:

durangodawood said:
I figured immigration from colonies reflected a sense of moral debt on the part of the colonizer in some way. But I actually dont know this for sure.

Ha, you will hear some British politicians hint at that idea, but it's hard to come out and say. IMO, it's those who were colonized who owe a debt to the colonizers.

Chesterton · Nov 4, 2025

RocksInMyHead said:
I have not been able to find the article either - the best I've been able to do is read the articles commenting on it, which quote it. Those quotes (which are also present in the OP) are what I've discussed.

I found out there was a kind of book burning. Because of the suspension, the article was never posted online. I don't question that the quotes are probably accurate, but I don't think it does any of us any good to talk at length about a couple of phrases with no surrounding context.

ThatRobGuy · Nov 4, 2025

rambot said:
Why shouldn't it be conflated with NAzism? It certainly was a part of the ethos; though certainly it was more complex than that.

The two concepts shouldn't be conflated because they're different in terms of both scope and application.

Nationalism has certainly been attribute of Nazi movements throughout time, but nationalism can certainly exist in a "non-Nazi" ecosystem.

Sort of that old phrase "All apples are fruits, but not all fruits are apples"

Japan is very nationalistic. In terms of a desire to maintain a strong cultural and ethnic homogeneity they're probably near the top of the list. But they manage to be a very civilized country and aren't going "full Hitler" over there.

Saying that "nationalism was part of the Nazi ethos" would be like saying that "strong desire for universal healthcare and welfare expansion was part of the Communist ethos", but that doesn't mean that everyone who holds those views is on the slippery slope to becoming Stalin or Mao. (despite perhaps having some overlap with the slogans and symbolism that came out of those two movements)

Larniavc · Nov 4, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
A conservative magazine at Harvard University was suspended by its board of directors Sunday amid scrutiny over an article published in September that closely resembled the rhetoric of Adolf Hitler.

In its September print issue, the Harvard Salient published an article by student David F.X. Army that read “Germany belongs to the Germans, France to the French, Britain to the British, America to the Americans,” echoing the words Hitler used in a January 1939 speech to the Reichstag in which he forecasted that another world war would lead to the annihilation of Jews.

The Harvard Salient piece also argued that “Islam et al. has absolutely no place in Western Europe,” and called for a return to values “rooted in blood, soil, language, and love of one’s own.” (The phrase “blood and soil” also echoes a Nazi idea that the inherent features of a people are its land and race.)

The school’s mainstream student newspaper, the Harvard Crimson, published three opinion pieces criticizing the rhetoric used in the Salient piece, to which [Salient's editor in chief] Rodgers published his own article last week lamenting that “ordinary conservative thought is one headline away from criminality.”

Just America being America. Did the message of Jake and Elwood fall on deaf ears?

durangodawood · Nov 4, 2025

Chesterton said:
The Spanish were here first. The British and French came later and ended up fighting a war against each other. Then you had Dutch, Swedish, German, but they were all white-skinned. Transportation was not what it is today. It was taken for granted that the colonies would remain white European. If that's racist, then the Native Americans were also racist, as is everyone on Earth. I'm 100% certain that the inhabitants of Saudi Arabia want Arabia to stay Arabian.

There were million of Africans here too. I dont care about the intent for this point of the argument. The fact is the die was cast. The USA was destined to be multicultural. Similar with former Spanish territories we annexed. Hispanics may be "white", but the language was different and has never really left.

Chesterton said:
Do you think that's a bad thing? Groups of individuals like different things. As a teenager I was fascinated by how there were always very few (if any) black folks at a hard rock concert. And a friend and I went to hear Stanley Clarke play. He and I were the only white people there (well, he was Mexican). Several black folks literally looked down their noses at us, but that could be due to the fact that they were all dressed up in fine evening clothes and we were in jeans and t-shirts.

I think tribalism was certainly necessary as a matter of human evolution. But its shadow side has loomed catastrophically large since the start of the 20th c.

Chesterton said:
You see it in churches and prisons. In my town I've driven by an African Baptist Church, a Korean Baptist Church, a Church of Myanmar, etc. Those people could go to any church, but they choose to be around their own kind. And I think it's common knowledge that prisoners largely self-segregate along racial lines.

I had some Romanian food at a festival awhile back. It was combinations of stuff I'm not used to, and I'll just say I'm glad I don't live in Romania.

Yeah people hang out with their own when its a matter of choice. Thats a challenge for our multicultural country. How to layer an American identity over peoples natural tribal identities.

Chesterton said:
Ha, you will hear some British politicians hint at that idea, but it's hard to come out and say. IMO, it's those who were colonized who owe a debt to the colonizers.

Whats your explanation for why there has been so much legal immigration from former colonies into their European counterparts?

ThatRobGuy · Nov 4, 2025

durangodawood said:
The phrasing indicates youre getting your ideas from a sympathetic study of Hitler - or others engaged in that pursuit. That gives the "Hitler adjacent" accusation some weight where otherwise it might be dismissable.

Wouldn't some of the slogans and symbolism that some on the more extreme left use have the same (or even larger) degree of overlap as some of the troubling left-wing movements?

For example... an author has nationalist tendencies, and happens to co-opt the same 1800's slogan Hitler co-opted, people don't bat an eye on establishing a link.

However, if I were to claim that these people were "Stalin-like"... progressives would pounce and get defensive about it (almost immediately)

There does seem to be a double standard that's held more by the left than by the right...

Which is, any right-wing idea gets discussed in the context of the worst person in history whoever espoused it... whereas, any left-leaning idea either gets associated with the "best" modern example of someone who espouses it, or simply discussed in the abstract as to say "well, not EVERY person who wants these things is going to end up like Castro or Hugo Chavez"

durangodawood · Nov 4, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
Wouldn't some of the slogans and symbolism that some on the more extreme left use have the same (or even larger) degree of overlap as some of the troubling left-wing movements?

For example... an author has nationalist tendencies, and happens to co-opt the same 1800's slogan Hitler co-opted, people don't bat an eye on establishing a link.

However, if I were to claim that these people were "Stalin-like"... progressives would pounce and get defensive about it (almost immediately)
View attachment 372674
View attachment 372675

There does seem to be a double standard that's held more by the left than by the right...

Which is, any right-wing idea gets discussed in the context of the worst person in history whoever espoused it... whereas, any left-leaning idea either gets associated with the "best" modern example of someone who espouses it, or simply discussed in the abstract as to say "well, not EVERY person who wants these things is going to end up like Castro or Hugo Chavez"

Theres nothing inherently nasty about "socialist revolution". Nor is there anything in a slogan like that to indicate an attraction to specific odious personalities.

Plus who are these randos from the pics? What did they publish in their Univ newspapers that should get them "cancelled". Once we know that, we can examine for any double standard.

ThatRobGuy · Nov 4, 2025

durangodawood said:
Theres nothing inherently nasty about "socialist revolution". Nor is there anything in a slogan like that to indicate an attraction to specific odious personalities.

Off the top of your head, can you name many socialist/communist revolutions that didn't involve violence or significant coercion under the threat of violence?

In terms of symbolism, a lot more people died under the hammer & sickle flag than any other flag.

durangodawood said:
Plus who are these randos from the pics? What did they publish in their Univ newspapers that should get them "cancelled". Once we know that, we can examine for any double standard.

Dunno...they wear masks (aka Black Bloc) as to conceal their identities when they're out making trouble so that they don't face consequences.

I'm assuming at least a few of them involved in those events are part of their school newspapers.

Harvard conservative magazine is suspended by its own board after publishing article laced with Nazi rhetoric

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