The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

Jerry N. · Monday at 8:51 AM

Servus said:
It's the Sabbatarians who are passing judgement. Accusing practically all of Christianity of being in open disobedience to God. Rebelling against God's law and putting traditions of men in place of God's law and commandments. That's what sows discord in this matter. In playground terms it's "we obey God and you guys don't".

If the attitude was we choose to be Sabbatarians, but it's alright if most Christians aren't, there wouldn't be enmity. And indeed on our side we say go ahead and be a Sabbatarian if you want to.

There should be no enmity between brothers and sisters in Christ. Unfortunately, it goes back all the way to the First Council of Jerusalem, even though the topic was a bit different. I expressed my opinion in #316. People are passionate about their views, and it is difficult to keep things civil. From what I have seen, the SDA church has had its share of condemnation. If you want to refute their beliefs, you should not be surprised that they defend them with passion. After all, they are defending the Law of God. I think the SDA people posting have done a very good job keeping things civil.

Studyman · Monday at 9:05 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
It was the location of the Ten Commandments that changed, not the words, do you not agree?

I don't agree that Noah, Abraham, Caleb, Shadrack, Zacharias, Simeon and others didn't have God's Laws written on their hearts. Not that you are saying that, but some say this is only possible in the New Covenant.

But I do agree that the Words were not changed. In my understanding, we now, and for quite awhile have had the Oracles of God in our own homes, in our own minds and heart. We are no longer required to be taught by corruptible priests or men. "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:"

We have the Law and Prophets, and the Testimony in our own home. So as Paul said, "we are without excuse". Paul said they were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

But I believe a man still is faced with a free will choice to either "Believe" or "not Believe" the Word of God, and it is called Faith, in my understanding.

SabbathBlessings said:
from tables of stone to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10

Yes, hearing the Words of God being read, and submitting to them as "Doers" are not the same thing. I think this is Spiritually defining the difference.

SabbathBlessings said:
The priesthood indeed changed why the law of the priesthood had to change to make room for Jesus who is our High Priest came from the tribe of Judah.

Absolutely! It was time for the Law of the Priesthood, with it's sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins to become old, and vanish, as it was to only be in place, "Till the Seed Shall Come".

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 9:06 AM

Studyman said:
I don't agree that Noah, Abraham, Caleb, Shadrack, Zacharias, Simeon and others didn't have God's Laws written on their hearts. Not that you are saying that, but some say this is only possible in the New Covenant.

But I do agree that the Words were not changed. In my understanding, we now, and for quite awhile have had the Oracles of God in our own homes, in our own minds and heart. We are no longer required to be taught by corruptible priests or men. "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:"

We have the Law and Prophets, and the Testimony in our own home. So as Paul said, "we are without excuse". Paul said they were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

But I believe a man still is faced with a free will choice to either "Believe" or "not Believe" the Word of God, and it is called Faith, in my understanding.

Yes, hearing the Words of God being read, and submitting to them as "Doers" are not the same thing. I think this is Spiritually defining the difference.

Absolutely! It was time for the Law of the Priesthood, with it's sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins to become old, and vanish, as it was to only be in place, "Till the Seed Shall Come".

I agree, as we see in Psa40:8, it was always God's will we have God's laws written in our heart. His will never changes.

Jerry N. · Monday at 9:13 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
No that's not what she teaches, she taught it happened gradually, Constantine is when the mainstream people switched because Christian Sabbath-keepers were being persecuted . Here is a clear history of how the Sabbath changed from God's Sabbath day, to the first day as predicted Dan7:25, that is not found in the Bible and did not from God. The first day God said is for work and labors and only named one holy day as His, in all of Scripture and that is the Sabbath Exo20:10 Isa58:13.

The first day does not have God's sanctification, it is not one of God's commandments, but a man-made tradition competing with the God of the Bible said, both written and spoken Exo31:18 Isa8:

SabbathBlessings said:

No that's not what she teaches, she taught it happened gradually, Constantine is when the mainstream people switched because Christian Sabbath-keepers were being persecuted . Here is a clear history of how the Sabbath changed from God's Sabbath day, to the first day as predicted Dan7:25, that is not found in the Bible and did not from God. The first day God said is for work and labors and only named one holy day as His, in all of Scripture and that is the Sabbath Exo20:10 Isa58:13.

The first day does not have God's sanctification, it is not one of God's commandments, but a man-made tradition competing with the God of the Bible said, both written and spoken Exo31:18 Isa8:20

Click to expand...

It is probably in the text you linked, but one of the many reason Constantine move the day of rest to Sunday was the desire to distinguish Christianity from Judaism. There were other reasons too. Just like the sign of Thor turned into the sign of the cross to appease Saxons, The day of the sun was used to appease Romans. It is more complicated, but I wanted to throw that in.

Jerry N. · Monday at 9:18 AM

Servus said:
Where does it say that was allowed on the Sabbath?

It doesn't, but it was not considered work. If you get a piece of fruit from your own tree and eat it there, it is just like eating food that is already in your home. Eating a fruit or a little grain in your neighbors field was probably a sign of community unity.

Hentenza · Monday at 9:22 AM

Constantine did not change the day to Sunday since that happened in the first century. In addition to the scriptures that teach the Lord’s day rather than the sabbath appears very early in the writings of the ECF’s. Here is a quote of the Didache written around 70ad.

“But every Lord’s day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.”
(Didache Chapter XIV.11 —Christian Assembly on the Lord’s Day. 14 [A.D. 70]).

Letter of Barnabas, a disciple of Paul written around 74ad.

“Further, He says to them, “Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure.” Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.” (The Epistle of Barnabas Chapter XV.—The false and the true Sabbath. [A.D. 74]).

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 9:23 AM

A document discovered in 1873 that is questionable does not replace the Testimony of God Isa8:20

We were warned what would happen after the disciples and is exactly what happened Acts 20:29

Hentenza · Monday at 9:25 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
A document discovered in 1873 that is questionable does not replace the Testimony of God Isa8:20

We were warned what would happen after the disciples and is exactly what happened Acts 20:29

Which one was that? I only posted two but there are a bunch more. Are they all bogus?

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 9:27 AM

Hentenza said:
Which one was that? I only posted two but there are a bunch more. Are they all bogus?

Anything that takes us away from God's Word, is not coming from the Spirit of God, but the other spirit we were warned about in the garden Isa8:20.

Man does not trump God's own Testimony, never will. Jesus warned us of the many who would deceive in His name. Mat 24:4-5

Hentenza · Monday at 9:27 AM

Here is another. Is this one bogus too?

Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master (Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

Hentenza · Monday at 9:29 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
Anything that takes us away from God's Word, is not coming from the Spirit of God, but the other spirit we were warned about in the garden Isa8:20.

Man does not trump God's own Testimony, never will.

But God Himself can give us a new covenant, can He not? And God can choose what to include or not include in His new covenant, can He not?

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 9:33 AM

Hentenza said:
But God Himself can give us a new covenant, can He not? And God can choose what to include or not include in His new covenant, can He not?

He did and told us what it was and was not. Psa89:34 Heb8:10 2Cor3:3

Never plucking the one commandment out that God said Remember. The one commandment He made holy and blessed and sanctified that points to Him as our Creator and Sanctifier and started from the beginning when there was no sin in the world, always part of God's perfect plan.

Its why man always uses outside sources instead of quoting Jesus, because its not a argument from Scripture, exactly what we were warned about Isa8:20. And we are told the whole world would be deceived. That's the majority, this didn't happen overnight, it was the slow, gradual thing where people do not even know that Sunday is not sanctified in the Bible, Sunday is not one of God's commandments, it is a man-man holiday people use to replace what God of the Bible said. Just as we were warned Dan7:25 and we see a clear history of this happening. Those who changed it ages ago boast they did so without Scripture authority and based on their own authority which they claim is above the Bible. God is asking us to get back to worshipping the God of Creation Rev 14:7 Exo20:11 His time is near.

Hentenza · Monday at 9:36 AM

Here are is another. Justin Martyr written around 155ad.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration. (First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

Hentenza · Monday at 9:38 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
He did and told us what it was and was not. Psa89:34 Heb8:10 2Cor3:3

Never plucking the one commandment out that God said Remember. The one commandment He made holy and blessed and sanctified from the beginning when there was no sin in the world. Its why man always uses outside sources instead of quoting Jesus, because its not an argument from Scripture. And we are told the whole world would be deceived. That's the majority, this didn't happen overnight, it was the slow, gradual thing where people do not even know that Sunday is not sanctified in the Bible, Sunday is not one of God's commandments, it is a man-man holiday people use to replace what God of the Bible said. Just as we were warned Dan7:25 and we see a clear history of this happening. Those who changed it ages ago boast they did so without Scripture authority and based on their own authority which they claim is above the Bible. God is asking us to get back to worshipping the God of Creation Rev 14:7 Exo20:11 His time is near.

And yet you cannot post a verse where the fourth commandment was repeated into Jesus two love commandments and a post resurrection verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment. That’s all you need to prove your case so why can’t you post them?

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 9:39 AM

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

The way to safeguard our salvation

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Sadly, many take the word of the earthy "fathers" over our Heavenly Father Exo31:18 Psa89:34 Deut4:13 Rev15:5 follow the creation, over the Creator Exo20:11 Rev14:7

Jerry N. · Monday at 9:40 AM

Hentenza said:
Here is another. Is this one bogus too?

Ignatius of Antioch

The “Letter of Barnabas” and the writings of Ignatius of Antioch, along with the writings of Origen and Clement, are not bogus, and they contain a lot of important information, but they are not Scripture. If they were, you would not believe in the Trinity. However, they are worth reading. There is also a bit of Gnosticism mixed in.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 9:41 AM

Jerry N. said:
The “Letter of Barnabas” and the writings of Ignatius of Antioch, along with the writings of Origen and Clement, are not bogus, and they contain a lot of important information, but they are not Scripture. If they were, you would not believe in the Trinity. However, they are worth reading. There is also a bit of Gnosticism mixed in.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Servus · Monday at 10:00 AM

Jerry N. said:
It doesn't, but it was not considered work. If you get a piece of fruit from your own tree and eat it there, it is just like eating food that is already in your home. Eating a fruit or a little grain in your neighbors field was probably a sign of community unity.

Were does it say picking fruit on the Sabbath is okay?

Jerry N. · Monday at 10:05 AM

Servus said:
Were does it say picking fruit on the Sabbath is okay?

Deuteronomy 23:24 It is the verse before the one on grain. It is much the same thing.

Servus · Monday at 10:09 AM

Jerry N. said:
There should be no enmity between brothers and sisters in Christ. Unfortunately, it goes back all the way to the First Council of Jerusalem, even though the topic was a bit different. I expressed my opinion in #316. People are passionate about their views, and it is difficult to keep things civil. From what I have seen, the SDA church has had its share of condemnation. If you want to refute their beliefs, you should not be surprised that they defend them with passion. After all, they are defending the Law of God. I think the SDA people posting have done a very good job keeping things civil.

Saying all the rest of Christianly is in disobedience and rebellion against God and they alone are the loyal remnant is not defending themselves.

The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

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