Do you believe a Christian can no longer be a believer?

Empirically, yes, this happens.

How this observation fits into various atonement theories, I'll leave for others to discuss.

If by believing to unbelieving you mean saved to unsaved, this is not possible. If through believing you are saved, then you are saved and no amount of unbelief is going to change this.

When Adam and Eve sinned, God separated Himself from them, which we understand as spiritual death. This was the punishment administered by God for their disobedience. The wages of sin is death. To be spiritually dead is to be separated from God.

When Christ paid the penalty for our sins, He paid for it all. Meaning, there is no more punishment left to be handed out by God. God was fully satisfied through Christ. If there is no more punishment left to be handed out, then there is no more possibility of spiritual death (separation from God).

Since there is no more possibility of separation from God, once you are saved through faith (belief), there is no possibility of losing it. Even if you choose to stop believing, you cannot choose to spiritually die. This is in God's hands alone. Even if we are unfaithful, God remains faithful.

If someone chooses to stop believing after having believed, there was a reason for this. It often goes back to some form of disappointment, hurt, or tragedy that they may blame God for. There can be any number of reasons, but my point here is that God see's all and understands. And for this reason He would never leave someone in a time they need Him the most, whether they recognize this or not.

A born again child of God can become a person who no longer believes. They still remain a born again child of God, just one that no longer believes.

But in the eyes of God they are always a born again child, just one who has went astray (like the prodigal son)

i believe a child of God that go astray, God will make the person 'snap out of it' with some circumstance for him her to come back again.

JohnB445 said:

They go from believing to unbelieving. Is this possible.

And can they go back to believing, or once they go back to unbelieving its permanent? I am curious to what each major denomination thinks on this topic, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant

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God never removes our free will ... one can temporarily backslide or can choose to walk away permanently. One should be resisting sin (God will help you with this) .... if you are not resisting sin ... then you are totally lost (if you do not care about sinning)

JohnB445 said:

They go from believing to unbelieving. Is this possible.

And can they go back to believing, or once they go back to unbelieving it’s permanent? I am curious to what each major denomination thinks on this topic, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant

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I believe God always forgives us if we return and ask forgiveness when we sin in general. This is a major part of the Lord’s Prayer ( Matthew 6:9-13). We are told in 1 John 1:5-10 that we can always be forgiven if we go astray. This is a living matter as long as we live our lives ( reading John 15:1-11 and the whole letter of 1 John before jumping to a passage like 1 John 5:18 is beneficial). Reading Colossians 1:1-29 ( verses 10-24) is also a good overview.

eleos1954 said:

God never removes our free will ... one can temporarily backslide or can choose to walk away permanently. One should be resisting sin (God will help you with this) .... if you are not resisting sin ... then you are totally lost (if you do not care about sinning)

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I'm curious. When you say that one should be resisting sin and if they aren't, then they're totally lost...

Is sin not always a deliberate act on our part? If it isn't, can you give me an example? Otherwise, if all sin is a deliberate act on our part, then at what point is someone considered lost?

This is my understanding; say for example (this may be extreme, but it is to get a point across), I'm driving down a residential road when suddenly a young child runs out from between two parked cars. I do my best to stop and avoid hitting the child, but there just wasn't enough time or space to do so and I end up hitting and killing the child. Did I commit a sin in taking that child's life?
Same scenario, but this time instead of trying to avoid the child, I floor it. Did I commit a sin in this instance?

In both instances the outcome was the same, the child died. But, my motives were different. The first scenario would not be considered a sin on my part but simply an unfortunate accident. There was no ill intention or motive on my part to harm the child. In the second scenario, there was. It was a deliberate act on my part to harm the child.

It's very easy for us, and very self righteous I might add, to say that if someone continues to deliberately sin, then they are lost or were never saved to begin with. When the reality is, all sin is a deliberate act on our part. If it wasn't, then it wouldn't be a sin.
One cannot presume to say that someone who continues to sin is lost or was never saved to begin with without placing themselves an a pedestal claiming that their own sins are never intentional.

In the parable of the sower and soils, Jesus gives us four examples. The first is someone who hears the word but doesn't receive it at all. They remain unsaved. The second is someone who receives it, but it's more of an emotional high for them. For these people it's more about how they feel so they never bother to try and understand or to learn more about what it is they believe. So as soon as things start to get uncomfortable, as they always do, they have no understanding of the word and are quickly led astray by the next best thing that gives them that emotional high. The third example is someone who also receives the word but soon finds the worries and desires of the world more important, leading them astray. And finally, the fourth example is someone who receives the word and runs with it. It becomes their new life, bearing much fruit.

The first example is the only person who wasn't saved out of the four. All the rest were saved. In this parable Jesus showed us the three different types of believers. The believer who is more about the emotional side of it all, but has no foundation (understanding of the word) upon which to stay rooted. The believer who is too easily overcome by the worries and desires of the world (this one typically being the one who would appear to be deliberately sinning), and the one who is all in and firm in their faith.

Not all who are saved are going to appear the same in their behavior. In a perfect world they would, but this world is far from perfect. Jesus was simply pointing this out.

A Devil's Advocate said:

I'm curious. When you say that one should be resisting sin and if they aren't, then they're totally lost...

Is sin not always a deliberate act on our part? If it isn't, can you give me an example? Otherwise, if all sin is a deliberate act on our part, then at what point is someone considered lost?

This is my understanding; say for example (this may be extreme, but it is to get a point across), I'm driving down a residential road when suddenly a young child runs out from between two parked cars. I do my best to stop and avoid hitting the child, but there just wasn't enough time or space to do so and I end up hitting and killing the child. Did I commit a sin in taking that child's life?
Same scenario, but this time instead of trying to avoid the child, I floor it. Did I commit a sin in this instance?

In both instances the outcome was the same, the child died. But, my motives were different. The first scenario would not be considered a sin on my part but simply an unfortunate accident. There was no ill intention or motive on my part to harm the child. In the second scenario, there was. It was a deliberate act on my part to harm the child.

It's very easy for us, and very self righteous I might add, to say that if someone continues to deliberately sin, then they are lost or were never saved to begin with. When the reality is, all sin is a deliberate act on our part. If it wasn't, then it wouldn't be a sin.
One cannot presume to say that someone who continues to sin is lost or was never saved to begin with without placing themselves an a pedestal claiming that their own sins are never intentional.

In the parable of the sower and soils, Jesus gives us four examples. The first is someone who hears the word but doesn't receive it at all. They remain unsaved. The second is someone who receives it, but it's more of an emotional high for them. For these people it's more about how they feel so they never bother to try and understand or to learn more about what it is they believe. So as soon as things start to get uncomfortable, as they always do, they have no understanding of the word and are quickly led astray by the next best thing that gives them that emotional high. The third example is someone who also receives the word but soon finds the worries and desires of the world more important, leading them astray. And finally, the fourth example is someone who receives the word and runs with it. It becomes their new life, bearing much fruit.

The first example is the only person who wasn't saved out of the four. All the rest were saved. In this parable Jesus showed us the three different types of believers. The believer who is more about the emotional side of it all, but has no foundation (understanding of the word) upon which to stay rooted. The believer who is too easily overcome by the worries and desires of the world (this one typically being the one who would appear to be deliberately sinning), and the one who is all in and firm in their faith.

Not all who are saved are going to appear the same in their behavior. In a perfect world they would, but this world is far from perfect. Jesus was simply pointing this out.

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One of the first things a christian should do, is repent of their sins.

Paul said is one the basic doctrines, the 'Repentance of sin', as you can see is a doctrine someone who just starts as christian must learn.

You can't be more mature or advance, or have healthy communion with God, i don't know if you can even enter heaven if you keep sinning.

A Devil's Advocate said:

I'm curious. When you say that one should be resisting sin and if they aren't, then they're totally lost...

Is sin not always a deliberate act on our part? If it isn't, can you give me an example? Otherwise, if all sin is a deliberate act on our part, then at what point is someone considered lost?

This is my understanding; say for example (this may be extreme, but it is to get a point across), I'm driving down a residential road when suddenly a young child runs out from between two parked cars. I do my best to stop and avoid hitting the child, but there just wasn't enough time or space to do so and I end up hitting and killing the child. Did I commit a sin in taking that child's life?
Same scenario, but this time instead of trying to avoid the child, I floor it. Did I commit a sin in this instance?

In both instances the outcome was the same, the child died. But, my motives were different. The first scenario would not be considered a sin on my part but simply an unfortunate accident. There was no ill intention or motive on my part to harm the child. In the second scenario, there was. It was a deliberate act on my part to harm the child.

It's very easy for us, and very self righteous I might add, to say that if someone continues to deliberately sin, then they are lost or were never saved to begin with. When the reality is, all sin is a deliberate act on our part. If it wasn't, then it wouldn't be a sin.
One cannot presume to say that someone who continues to sin is lost or was never saved to begin with without placing themselves an a pedestal claiming that their own sins are never intentional.

In the parable of the sower and soils, Jesus gives us four examples. The first is someone who hears the word but doesn't receive it at all. They remain unsaved. The second is someone who receives it, but it's more of an emotional high for them. For these people it's more about how they feel so they never bother to try and understand or to learn more about what it is they believe. So as soon as things start to get uncomfortable, as they always do, they have no understanding of the word and are quickly led astray by the next best thing that gives them that emotional high. The third example is someone who also receives the word but soon finds the worries and desires of the world more important, leading them astray. And finally, the fourth example is someone who receives the word and runs with it. It becomes their new life, bearing much fruit.

The first example is the only person who wasn't saved out of the four. All the rest were saved. In this parable Jesus showed us the three different types of believers. The believer who is more about the emotional side of it all, but has no foundation (understanding of the word) upon which to stay rooted. The believer who is too easily overcome by the worries and desires of the world (this one typically being the one who would appear to be deliberately sinning), and the one who is all in and firm in their faith.

Not all who are saved are going to appear the same in their behavior. In a perfect world they would, but this world is far from perfect. Jesus was simply pointing this out.

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"then they are lost or were never saved to begin with."

We don't know who is or isn't saved ... or who will or will not be saved .... we are not privy to that information ... it's exclusively up to Jesus on the matter and the reality won't be known until He returns. We don't know peoples hearts (the secret things) ... only God does.

Salvation can be forfeited .... it's conditional

• 1 Corinthians 9:27:
  "But I, like a boxer, beat my body and make it my slave so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified".
  
  
• • Colossians 1:21-23:
    "Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through his death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free of accusation—if you continue in your faith, with your life built on the foundation of the hope of the gospel. If you keep on hearing the good news".
  • 
    
  • Who are we to judge?
  • 
    
  • while a person's actions might be assessed as being contrary to biblical principles, stating with certainty that another individual was never saved is seen as overstepping a human's place and assuming a role that belongs only to God.

JohnB445 said:

They go from believing to unbelieving. Is this possible.

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Heb 3:12 Take heed, Brethren, lest here be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

eleos1954 said:

God never removes our free will ... one can temporarily backslide or can choose to walk away permanently. One should be resisting sin (God will help you with this) .... if you are not resisting sin ... then you are totally lost (if you do not care about sinning)

Click to expand...

Do you see in 1 Co 10:13 that every time a person succumbs to temptation that it reprepresents a failure to take the way of escape that God provided?

NewLifeInChristJesus said:

12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. (1 Co 10:12–13)​

Do you see in 1 Co 10:13 that every time a person succumbs to temptation that it reprepresents a failure to take the way of escape that God provided?

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God promises that we can, in the power of the Holy Spirit, respond to any given temptation by resisting it. Finally, Paul adds to this promise that God will always make a way of escape out of whatever temptation stands before us. If we look for a way to say no to whatever sin compels us, God promises we will find it.

eleos1954 said:

God promises that we can, in the power of the Holy Spirit, respond to any given temptation by resisting it. Finally, Paul adds to this promise that God will always make a way of escape out of whatever temptation stands before us. If we look for a way to say no to whatever sin compels us, God promises we will find it.

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So you are saying that every sinner is completely lost?

JohnB445 said:

They go from believing to unbelieving. Is this possible.

And can they go back to believing, or once they go back to unbelieving its permanent? I am curious to what each major denomination thinks on this topic, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant

Click to expand...

Some can. It all depends what you do with your faith.

““Now this is the parable: the seed is the word of God. And those beside the road are the ones who have heard, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. Those on the rocky soil are the ones who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and yet these do not have a firm root; they believe for a while, and in a time of temptation they fall away. And the seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked by worries, riches, and pleasures of this life, and they bring no fruit to maturity. But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word with a good and virtuous heart, and hold it firmly, and produce fruit with perseverance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8‬:‭11‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

NewLifeInChristJesus said:

So you are saying that every sinner is completely lost?

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• A person can be "permanently lost" if they persistently reject the Holy Spirit's guidance, which is considered the unforgivable sin (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit). This is a deliberate, willful, and ongoing rejection of the path to salvation.

The lost can be found.

God does not passively wait for people to come to Him. Rather, He actively seeks out those who are lost until they are found. The shepherd leaves the 99 sheep to go after the one that is lost, demonstrating God's persistent and personal pursuit.

ALL have sinned ... all start out in a "lost condition" ... that can be changed by the power on the Holy Spirit.

eleos1954 said:

• A person can be "permanently lost" if they persistently reject the Holy Spirit's guidance, which is considered the unforgivable sin (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit). This is a deliberate, willful, and ongoing rejection of the path to salvation.

The lost can be found.

God does not passively wait for people to come to Him. Rather, He actively seeks out those who are lost until they are found. The shepherd leaves the 99 sheep to go after the one that is lost, demonstrating God's persistent and personal pursuit.

ALL have sinned ... all start out in a "lost condition" ... that can be changed by the power on the Holy Spirit.

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Now looking at how things actually work and how they actually are, the doctrine was delivered and obeyed from the heart, it entered into the heart by being wholly believed, this is how anyone becomes the SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. ( not by being HALF HEARTED.)

Now they are ASHAMED of the things they did while SERVING SIN.

Now they were MADE FREE FROM SIN, and BECOME SERVANTS TO GOD, their fruit UNTO HOLINESS, the end in that path...EVERLASTING LIFE.

But the wages of sin are DEATH, the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH JESUS CHRISIT OUR LORD. ( not through these empty disputes/contentions/strivings)



Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.




This is the RECORD THAT GOD HAS GIVEN TO US ETERNAL LIFE, AND THAT LIFE IS IN HIS SON.

He that HAS THE SON HAS LIFE, and he that HAS NOT THE SON OF GOD HAS NOT LIFE. (He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.)

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If these men who have life, they ask according to His will, as we KNOW THAT HE HEARS US, whatever we ask we receive of Him. (
whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight/faith.) if they see their brother sin, what is not unto death, he asks and life is give him life for them that sin not unto death.

He does not pray for the sin that is unto death.

ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN, and there is a sin not unto death.

WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT SIN, BUT HE THAT IS BEGOTTEN OF GOD KEEPS HIMSELF, AND THAT WICKED ONE ( OF SIN) TOUCHES HIM NOT.

That is knowing WE ARE OF GOD, and the WHOLE WORLD LIES IN WICKEDNESS.

We know the SON OF GOD IS COME ( MANY ANTICHRISTS DECEIVE MANY/DENY CHIRST HAS COME IN THE FLESH) and has GIVEN US AN UNDERSTAANDING THAT WE MAY KNOW HIM THAT IS TRUE, AND WE ARE IN HIM THAT IS TRUE, EVEN IN HIS SON JESUS CHRIST, THIS IS THE TRUE GOD, AND ETERNAL LIFE.




John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Hentenza said:

Some can. It all depends what you do with your faith.

““Now this is the parable: the seed is the word of God. And those beside the road are the ones who have heard, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. Those on the rocky soil are the ones who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and yet these do not have a firm root; they believe for a while, and in a time of temptation they fall away. And the seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked by worries, riches, and pleasures of this life, and they bring no fruit to maturity. But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word with a good and virtuous heart, and hold it firmly, and produce fruit with perseverance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8‬:‭11‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Luke 8:11-15 “Now this is the parable: the seed is the word of God. And those beside the road are the ones who have heard, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not belie | New American Standard Bible - NASB

“Now this is the parable: the seed is the word of God. And those beside the road are the ones who have heard, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not belie

bible.com

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Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Anyone else need a little correcting, just let me know if I am required.