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BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

Strong in Him

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It mentions the new Temple and how it will be desecrated.
No, it says that someone will blaspheme and desecrate the temple.
You quoted the reference to show that sacrifices are being made in the temple and the beast will stop them.

It says nothing of the sort.

The Thessalonians reference doesn't prove what you say it does, either.
 
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keras

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He did not say that anywhere, you're misquoting John
I re-read John 3:13 in the poorly translated KJV Bible. It does say basically the same as my REBible.
Jesus made an irrefutable statement, ANY other ideas are false teachings.

None of your other scriptures say people will go to live in heaven. Jesus will bring our rewards with Him, Matthew 16:27
Our one Treasure kept in heaven, is our name written in the Book of Life, so when we stand before God ;- Rev 20:11-15, we will receive Eternal Life.
 
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Strong in Him

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Our one Treasure kept in heaven, is our name written in the Book of Life, so when we stand before God ;- Rev 20:11-15, we will receive Eternal Life.
I already have eternal life - all other Christians I know would say the same.
 
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keras

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No, it says that someone will blaspheme and desecrate the temple.
You quoted the reference to show that sacrifices are being made in the temple and the beast will stop them.

It says nothing of the sort.

The Thessalonians reference doesn't prove what you say it does, either.
Revelation 13 shows there will be a Temple in the end times and it supports Daniel 9:27 & 11:32.
2 Thess 2:4 is a plain statement of just how the 'beast', will desecrate the new Temple.
I already have eternal life - all other Christians I know would say the same.
You have the Promise of Eternal life, not the reality as yet.
There are plenty of cases where people have turned from God and had their names erased from the BoL.
 
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keras

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When the Lord’s righteous Christian peoples go to live in all of the Holy Land, soon after it is cleared and cleansed by the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, Ezekiel 34:11-31, they will build a new Temple in Jerusalem, according to the details given in Ezekiel 40-46
Many Old Testament prophesies attest to this and how it will be built by men from far away, Zechariah 6:15, and it will be greater than the former ones. Haggai 2:9
The New Testament too, makes it clear there will be a Temple, 2 Thess. 2:4, Revelation 11:1-2, that will exist until the end of the Millennium, when God Himself will be the Temple. Revelation 21:22

We are told that during this age of Church dispensation, Christ is our high priest and we are the spiritual Temple, 2 Cor. 6:16 and no sacrifices are required. Hosea 9:4
Hebrews 9 & 10:1-21 are the scriptures that clearly tell us that Jesus made the once and forever sacrifice for the expiation of our sins. Now there is no Temple and Christians are His ‘body’ on earth. This is just for the time from the early church until the new Temple is built, when there will again be offerings and thanksgiving gifts made by the Lord’s holy people. Isaiah 56:1-8, Jeremiah 33:14-15

Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 9:26-27 tells us how, in the last days, an invading leader will make a peace treaty with the holy people, but will break it and put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings. Obviously there will be sacrifices and offerings taking place, for him to stop them.

This is confirmed by the prophesies detailing how it will be during the period the righteous people of God will be living the Land before the Return of Jesus:
Psalms 51:18-19 Now Lord, show Your favour to Zion and rebuild Jerusalem. Then You will delight in the appointed sacrifices, young bulls will be offered in Your altar.

Jeremiah 17:24-26 Now, if you obey the Lord’s Commandments, then a ruler will again occupy David’s throne and Jerusalem will be inhabited forever. Then people will come bringing whole offerings, sacrifices as thank offerings to the Lord’s House.

Jeremiah 33:14-18 The days are coming when I shall bless Judah and Israel…….there will always be a Levitical Priest to burn the grain and other offerings every day.

Ezekiel 45:13-25 The details of and the dates for making all the sacrifices and offerings on the Altar of the Temple.

Zechariah 14:21…all who come to make sacrifice will use the holy pots in Jerusalem to boil the flesh of the sacrifice……

Isaiah 60:6-7 Livestock in droves will be in the Land to serve your needs, as acceptable offerings on My Altar and I will adorn My glorious Temple.

The context of these scriptures proves that all this will be for the last days’ period before the Return of Jesus. What will happen in the Temple, during the Millennium isn’t told to us, although there will be priest’s then. Revelation 20:6, Zephaniah 14:16-21, Isaiah 2:1-3
But we know there will be no Temple in Eternity. Revelation 21:22
 
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Strong in Him

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Revelation 13 shows there will be a Temple in the end times and it supports Daniel 9:27 & 11:32.
No, it speaks of the Temple.
It doesn't say the Temple in end times, which will be in over 2,000 years time.
2 Thess 2:4 is a plain statement of just how the 'beast', will desecrate the new Temple.
But says nothing about sacrifices being restarted so they can be stopped again.
You have the Promise of Eternal life, not the reality as yet.
Eternal life means spiritual life. It means that we are spiritually alive - and that if we died now we would be with God for eternity, as opposed to being spiritually dead.

I am, and I hope you are, spiritually alive now. We have every spiritual blessing in Christ, Ephesians 1:3. We have the Spirit who guarantees our inheritance, 2 Corinthians 5:5 and we are children of God, Romans 8:16-17.
That does not start when we die, we have it now. That is how we can talk to, listen to and receive gifts and blessings from God.
There are plenty of cases where people have turned from God and had their names erased from the BoL.
How do you know their names have been erased from the book of life - have you read it?

Christians still have the free will to walk away from God if they wish.
Frankly I can't see how anyone who has truly known God's unconditional love would want to. But maybe some do; worn down by suffering, disappointment with God etc.
How he judges them is not for us to know and none of our business.
 
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keras

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It doesn't say the Temple in end times, which will be in over 2,000 years time.
Daniels Prophesies cover the end of the age, the last days, and the time of the end.
But says nothing about sacrifices being restarted so they can be stopped again.
The new Temple, built and operated to the specifications in Ezekiel 40 to 46, will have an Altar and will have regular sacrifices and offerings. As per the scriptures I provided in #245, which you fail to address.
Eternal life means spiritual life
It means we will never experience the Second Death. Revelation 20:14-15 Which is annihilation.
How do you know their names have been erased from the book of life
I know that our name can be erased from the Book of Life; Exodus 32:33, Psalms 69:28
How he judges them is not for us to know and none of our business.
How God will Judge the wicked and reprobate peoples, is well described throughout the Bible. Romans 9:22
They will be burned up and remembered no more. Isaiah 26:14
 
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Strong in Him

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Daniels Prophesies cover the end of the age, the last days, and the time of the end.
They may do. But that doesn't mean that your interpretation of them is correct.
The new Temple, built and operated to the specifications in Ezekiel 40 to 46, will have an Altar and will have regular sacrifices and offerings. As per the scriptures I provided in #245, which you fail to address.
I'm not going to address your interpretation of them.
The question I have been asking all along is "what gives you the authority to apply the random Scriptures which you quote to us, today?"
E.g. you seem convinced that one of the visions described in Zechariah 5 refers to nuclear bombs. "ho told you that the "flying object which looked like a scroll with writing on both sides" was a modern day nuclear bomb?

Jesus didn't teach any of the stuff that you teach. You have even said that you haven't found anyone who agrees with you - as well as the fact that everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.
I know that our name can be erased from the Book of Life; Exodus 32:33, Psalms 69:28
But you have no idea whose names will be erased and whose won't.
How God will Judge the wicked and reprobate peoples, is well described throughout the Bible. Romans 9:22
They will be burned up and remembered no more. Isaiah 26:14
What I'm saying is that you have no idea if someone is "wicked and reprobate" or not.
You have judged that a Christian who turns away from the Lord has their name removed from the Book of Life.
Would you know if a Christian has completely turned away from God - and completely, and forever rejected him and his gift of eternal life?
Could it be that that person has been struggling with various issues, neglected to go to church/has a church which is unsupportive and judgmental and they have lost sight of God, and their faith, for a bit? Could it be that the person has given into temptation, more than once, and become convinced that God no longer loves them?

This is what I mean - you don't know so you can't judge.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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A crude and rude accusation.
It's a legit critique of your claims. Nothing personal. I provided specifics.
Clearly, Rev 5:13 will come to pass after the Millennium. Only then will ALL Creation praise God.
Well, at least you got to that point.

Except for the fact that it's presented in Rev. 5, before any of your blood and guts story.

The reality of Matt. 25 will come upon all those who are alive, when it happens.

Until then there is no "millennium," and can't be, with the devils still present in the pictures. An inconvenient fact that your positions don't account for.
 
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keras

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This is what I mean - you don't know so you can't judge.
I never said I was a judge.
What I do is to point out what the Prophets have told us. When did I 'interpret' those clearly stated Prophesies in #245?
You are making wild and untrue accusations, Bad you!
Jesus didn't teach any of the stuff that you teach. You have even said that you haven't found anyone who agrees with you - as well as the fact that everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.
Jesus mostly taught Salvation and how we should live. He also taught about our future, esp in Revelation. I agree with and promote all of it.

That only a few will understand the Prophesies and many will be deceived, is as Daniel and Jesus have told us.
Clear your mind of fables and false doctrines and comprehend what the Bible Prophets actually say. And if they describe an object in the terms of their knowledge, it isn't a crime to interpret it in the light of our modern knowledge.
 
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keras

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Except for the fact that it's presented in Rev. 5, before any of your blood and guts story.
So: 'All Creation will praise God', THEN disaster strikes?
Jesus puts it that disaster will come;- then He will Return. Luke 21:25-27
Until then there is no "millennium," and can't be, with the devils still present in the pictures. An inconvenient fact that your positions don't account for.
Another case of simply not reading what scripture does say. Revelation 20, plainly states that Satan and his minions will not be able to deceive anyone during the Millennium. Only AFTER the thousand years is past is Satan released for a short while. THEN destroyed forever.

What is 'inconvenient' about my presentations, is how the truth of scripture contradicts the fables and false beliefs of people.
Long held beliefs, like the 12 theories, that I show to be false, make people very uncomfortable, but instead of reconsidering their beliefs, the reaction is to shoot the messenger. Not very wise.
 
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keras

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It isn’t very pleasant to think that the Lord can control our thinking. It brings free will into question, but who are we? He is the Creator.
Someone made the comment that it seems as though God is playing something like a video game; setting up situations and watching the outcomes. Job 34:21-22, Psalms 11:4

But of course, God cannot give the game away, all the non-Christian peoples must not know His plans and even with the so called Christians, it is estimated that there may be only 2% who are honestly faithful. The other 98% follow false doctrines and cults or just simply warm a pew for an hour or so a week, the rest of the time they lie about anything, steal if the opportunity offers, commit adultery, etc, etc.
So what can we do?

At least, if you belong to this forum you are making an effort to gain understanding of the end times. However, everywhere around us, ideas and theories are put forward that have no sound scriptural basis. Outdated and biased translations are a serious handicap. One example is in Luke 21:36; ‘escape all these things’, more correctly translated is; ‘to pass safely through all that is to come’, Revised English Bible, so as not to be a contradiction of verse 35.
Of course belief in God and the Lord Jesus, true repentance of sins and fervent prayers are essential to become right with God.

From my studies of prophecy, I firmly believe that very soon there will be an event of a similar magnitude to the great flood of Noah’s time. This time, many of the world’s population will survive. To be among the survivors we must heed the warnings, be aware of what will happen and be prepared for it. But our main hope is to have absolute trust in the Lord’s salvation and His promises of protection. Isaiah 30:15, Isaiah 41:15, Zechariah 9:15-16, 1 Peter 1:21, +
Ref: www.logostelos.info
 
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Strong in Him

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I never said I was a judge.
But you did say:
There are plenty of cases where people have turned from God and had their names erased from the BoL.
I asked you how you know that.
Who are these "plenty of cases" who have turned from God and had their name erased from the book of life? Because unless you have seen someone's name in the book of life, know that he turned away from God and saw the book again with his name blotted out; you have no idea.
Hence, a judgment.
What I do is to point out what the Prophets have told us.
You have pointed out some random verses and tell us that they mean certain thing for our day. Like Zechariah's flying scroll with writing on which you say is a nuclear bomb and will be used by a certain country. That is definitely an interpretation.

So no, I'm not "bad" for making accusations - I have just been repeating your own words.
That only a few will understand the Prophesies
Presumably that means you, and everyone else - your Pastor, Bible commentators and most of us here - are wrong?
Clear your mind of fables and false doctrines and comprehend what the Bible Prophets actually say.
I know what they say. And I know that Jesus and the Apostles have told us that many of them have been fulfilled.
The OT points to Jesus; it prophesies his birth, his life, his ministry, his betrayal, death, resurrection etc.
That's the important thing - the Gospel in the OT and revealed in the New.
Jesus spoke about end times, yes. Though much of it was mixed in with the destruction of the temple, which the Jews would have considered to be the end. Jesus did not say, "read the prophets and work out what these signs are", or "work out when I will be returning." He said nothing at all about things that you have asserted to be fact - like believers moving to Israel, or the "6th seal" happening before his return. He did not say, "at some point all believers will have to offer animal sacrifices again".
And if they describe an object in the terms of their knowledge, it isn't a crime to interpret it in the light of our modern knowledge.
You won't be arrested for it, no.
But it's reading into Scripture - which isn't good and isn't advisable.
 
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keras

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Jesus spoke about end times,
And what Jesus said was that many would be deceived. Matthew 24:5
But 2 Peter 1:19 says we should attend to the Words of the Prophets. That is NOT to the teachings of unscriptural fables; 2 Timothy 4:3-4

That the majority have turned to false teachings, is readily apparent; with the proliferation of theories, ideas and plain guesswork abounding today.
But it's reading into Scripture - which isn't good and isn't advisable.
It really is unreasonable for you to say we cannot gain understanding of the ancient Prophesies from modern knowledge.
In Zechariah 5:6-7, the flying object is described as an 'ephah' or as a 'barrel'. One that requires a lead cover to keep the 'wickedness', covered.
Until you can come up with a better explanation than a nuke missile for it, then it would be best to not show your bias and ignorance.
 
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Strong in Him

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And what Jesus said was that many would be deceived. Matthew 24:5
Because many would come in his name claiming to be the Christ, not because they believed that certain countries would do certain things or that wars would/wouldn't happen.
But 2 Peter 1:19 says we should attend to the Words of the Prophets.
Peter is telling the people he is writing to that they can trust what he tells them about Jesus because he was there - a witness at the transfiguration.
You might ask yourself why he picks out that event in particular. Why doesn't he say "we saw the empty tomb"? "We were there when he called us to leave our nets"? "We saw him raise Jairus' daughter from the dead", for example?
He also tells them that they should listen to the prophetic message - the prophets prophesied about Jesus.
He does NOT say, "this means reading only those prophets who talk about end times, selecting random verses and coming up with your own theory."
That the majority have turned to false teachings, is readily apparent; with the proliferation of theories, ideas and plain guesswork abounding today.
People turn to false teachers and get sucked in by groups like JWs, because they generally don't know the Bible. They cannot contradict someone who says "the Bible teaches ...." , shows them the relevant verse and then goes on to push their own doctrine rather than Biblical teaching.
They may get sucked in by these groups also because they are vulnerable/searching for something and the cults, at least in the early days, use love-bombing - telling the new convert how loved, special, wise etc they are.
It really is unreasonable for you to say we cannot gain understanding of the ancient Prophesies from modern knowledge.
I didn't say that. We can use what we have now - commentaries, bible resources, the ability to learn Bible languages/use interlinear Bibles - to study and learn what they said and what they meant.
I said that it is wrong to take the words of a prophet, or, more likely a random verse, and teach that it applies to us today - to a modern day situation. If they were writing to Jews of a certain time, their words were for Jews of a certain time. IF there is a future application in a prophecy then Jesus, or the Apostles, tell us. Like in Matthew 2:17; Matthew tells us that an OT prophecy is being fulfilled.

Neither Jesus nor the Apostles taught that we should all read the prophets, take selected verses and all come up with our own ideas.
You have said that hardly any other Christians agree with what you teach - yet if your teachings were the teachings of the OT prophets, everyone would. You're not the only person who has ever read the OT.

In Zechariah 5:6-7, the flying object is described as an 'ephah' or as a 'barrel'. One that requires a lead cover to keep the 'wickedness', covered.
The book of Zechariah describes several visions and uses allegorical language.
The prophet looks and "sees" a man with a measuring line, Zec 2:1, Joshua standing before the Lord and Satan, Zec 3:1, seven lampstands and two olive trees, Zec 4:2, a flying scroll with writing on both sides, a basket, and so on. Why have you ignored all these other things and focused just on the "flying scroll"?
Incidentally, the writing on both sides of the scroll is about banishing thieves and false witnesses from the land.
The lead cover you mention is not on the flying scroll but over the basket, Zechariah 5:7.
Until you can come up with a better explanation than a nuke missile for it, then it would be best to not show your bias and ignorance.
I don't have any "bias and ignorance" - unless it's against those who take random Scriptures out of context, apply them to modern situations and then teaches that everyone who disagrees with them is wrong.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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Jesus puts it that disaster will come;- then He will Return. Luke 21:25-27
Only if you bought into the story that Jesus isn't here, now.

We know the Word (Jesus) is Living and Active. Never left us.
Another case of simply not reading what scripture does say. Revelation 20, plainly states that Satan and his minions will not be able to deceive anyone during the Millennium.
I understand that, but your timing is so off. Matt. 25 marks the "SEPARATION" of the sheep from the goats, the "SEPARATION" of devils from people and the devil and his messengers are then sent to the flames.

AND Jesus was "here" during the time prior.

"For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me."

"Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

In all our afflictions, He was afflicted too.

You simply bought into a false narrative of Jesus having left and concocted a pretty wild story around it, and forgot who the REAL ENEMIES are.
Only AFTER the thousand years is past is Satan released for a short while. THEN destroyed forever.

What is 'inconvenient' about my presentations, is how the truth of scripture contradicts the fables and false beliefs of people.
Long held beliefs, like the 12 theories, that I show to be false, make people very uncomfortable, but instead of reconsidering their beliefs, the reaction is to shoot the messenger. Not very wise.
Your "guess work" has 3 significant flaws:

-Jesus never left us.

-People are not the enemies of God. Jesus came to save people.

-The devil and his messengers are what people are saved from and it is THEY who are destroyed by Jesus.
 
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Ed Parenteau

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I re-read John 3:13 in the poorly translated KJV Bible. It does say basically the same as my REBible.
Jesus made an irrefutable statement, ANY other ideas are false teachings.

None of your other scriptures say people will go to live in heaven. Jesus will bring our rewards with Him, Matthew 16:27
Our one Treasure kept in heaven, is our name written in the Book of Life, so when we stand before God ;- Rev 20:11-15, we will receive Eternal Life.
If you take verses like this out of context and change the words, I suppose anyone can come up with any doctrine they want to. What's irrefutable is that it doesn't say "no one goes to heaven".
Heaven is where eternal life is and the resurrection is "to" eternal life. The 2 witnesses were caught up to heaven after they died in Rev 11. Matthew 6:20but lay up for yourselves treasures(plural) in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth consume, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
2 Tim4:18The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen.
John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

1 Peter 1:4
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Rev 4:(John goes up before the throne in heaven)
1After this I looked and saw a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had previously heard speak to me like a trumpet was saying, “Come
up here, and I will show you what must happen after these things.”

Rev 7:(still before the throne in heaven)
13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”
14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”
So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15For this reason,
they are before the throne of God
and serve Him day and night in His temple;
and the One seated on the throne
will spread His tabernacle over them.
16‘Never again will they hunger,
and never will they thirst;
nor will the sun beat down upon them,
nor any scorching heat.
17For the Lamb in the center of the throne
will be their shepherd.
‘He will lead them to springs of living water,
and ‘God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.
 
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keras

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Because many would come in his name claiming to be the Christ,
Actually not many claim to be Christ now. There were a few, soon after Jeus' Ascension.
It surely applies today, because of almost universal confusion and deceit about what the future holds.
He also tells them that they should listen to the prophetic message - the prophets prophesied about Jesus.
There is plenty more Prophecy about the last days and the final events of his age. You and most people don't want to know about it. To your distress when things get rough.
People turn to false teachers and get sucked in by groups like JWs, because they generally don't know the Bible.
Unfortunately, people generally follow what their parents believe. Those who do look elsewhere often believe false teachers.
The fact is; God wants people to be unaware and taken by surprise, as what is coming is our great test of faith. 1 Peter 4:12
I said that it is wrong to take the words of a prophet, or, more likely a random verse, and teach that it applies to us today
But if what is clearly Prophesied, did not happen then or since then, then it remains unfulfilled as yet. Maybe to take place tomorrow?
There IS a sequence, a progression of things, which lead to the eventual state of Gods desire. Revelation 22:1-5

The Commentators cannot be right, as 'these things, [the Prophesies] are hidden from them. Matthew 11:25-26

Re Zechariah's barrel, you reject a sensible and feasible idea and fail to provide any plausible explanation for it.
I don't have any "bias and ignorance" - unless it's against those who take random Scriptures out of context, apply them to modern situations and then teaches that everyone who disagrees with them is wrong.
Yes; I noticed.
 
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keras

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Heaven is where eternal life is and the resurrection is "to" eternal life. The 2 witnesses were caught up to heaven after they died in Rev 1
Heaven is where God is and that means He is everywhere.
The 2W are told to 'Come up here'. As Jesus is right then in the process of Returning in glory, they will go up into the clouds, then to Jerusalem, along with 'all who remain' - 1 Thess 4:17

I repeat: None of the verses you think mean people will go to live in heaven, actually say that.
Revelation 7:15-17 is a Prophecy about the Eternal state, after the final Judgement. Proved by how it is then when God will wipe away every tear; Rev 21:4
What's irrefutable is that it doesn't say "no one goes to heaven".
But it does say that.
NOTHING refutes the statement of Jesus that we never go to heaven, but after everything is all over, God and heaven, will come to us. Revelation 21:1-7
 
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keras

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Only if you bought into the story that Jesus isn't here, now.
Jesus told the Disciples that He would send the Holy Spirit.
He remains in heaven, on the righthand of God.
 
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