Israel-Hamas Thread II

53 per cent of "Palestinians" continue to believe that Hamas' decision to attack Israel was the right one. This is according to a recent survey by the People's Company for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR). A total of 1,200 Palestinians were surveyed, 760 from the "West Bank" and 440 from Gaza. Support in the "West Bank" was significantly higher at 59 per cent than in the Gaza Strip (44 per cent), where the consequences of the terror are being felt. 70 per cent of "Palestinians" reject the disarmament of Hamas.

Paradoxically, although the Hamas terrorists themselves filmed many of their atrocities on Oct 7 2023 and posted them online, 86 per cent of "Palestinians" in the survey claimed that such acts had not taken place. At the same time, however, the atrocities are celebrated as heroic deeds.

The survey also found that 53 per cent of "Palestinians" reject a two-state solution.

In previous surveys, a majority of "Palestinians" consistently approved of the massacre; in March 2024, approval was as high as 71 per cent. However, the current study is clearly anti-Israeli in many places, which raises doubts about the neutrality of the authors. For example, "Palestinian" prisoners who were released in exchange for Israeli abductees are referred to as ‘hostages’ in the study.

The survey demonstrates the importance of disarming Hamas and re-educating the next generation about peace. The clear rejection of the two-state solution confirms Israelis' fears that the majority of "Palestinians" are not prepared to recognise Israel's existence, but insist on a ‘one-state solution’, a "Palestinian" state without Israel.

Benaiah468 said:

If Hamas propaganda is to be believed. Everyone there is a terrorist. There are no innocent civilians in Gaza, not a single one. They simply do not exist.

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essentialsaltes said:

Speaking of propaganda, that's some pretty blatant stuff.

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No, unfortunately that is the shocking truth about the people who live in Gaza and what Mia Schem experienced there.

Benaiah468 said:

No, unfortunately that is the shocking truth about the people who live in Gaza and what Mia Schem experienced there.

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Do you include Palestinian Christians in your generalisatiuons?

Philip_B said:

Do you include Palestinian Christians in your generalisatiuons?

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After Oct 7 it is clear, that the enemy wants all Jews dead.

In addition to Hamas, there were other "Palestinian" armed groups that also participated in the attacks on Oct 7. It is interesting to note that some of these groups were founded by "Christians", such as the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of "Palestine"). Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades is their military wing. The PFLP emerged from the Harakat al-Qawmiyyin al-Arab (Arab Nationalist Movement, ANM), which was founded in 1953 by George Habash, a "Palestinian Christian" from Lydda. In 1948, during the Arab-Israeli War, were armed forces from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq attacked Israel with the chilling aim, to throw the jews into the sea and wipe the young nation off the map before it could take its first steps, 19-year-old Habash, a medical student, went to his hometown of Lydda to help his family.

DFLP (Democratic Front for the Liberation of "Palestine") was also founded by Jordanian Orthodox Christian (Nayef Hawatmeh). "National Resistance Brigades" or "Martyr Omar Al-Qassem Forces" is their military wing. Hawatmeh founded the group, originally called the Popular Democratic Front for the Liberation of "Palestine", in 1969 after it split from the Popular Front for the Liberation of "Palestine".

The red color headbands are used by PFLP, the black ones are used by both DELP and PIJ, and the green and dark green-brown colors are used by Al-Qassam/Hamas. All of these groups were involved directly in the Oct 7 attack alongside Hamas. This shows that these groups have good connections with Hamas.

Because of the small population of Christians in Israel (1% of Gaza and 2-3% of Judea/Smaria) majority of its members are Muslims. Even a small amount of "Christians" are in these groups now.

Another group, Fatah/PLO (currently the "govt of Palestine") is known to have a lot of "Christians" as its members. Till the Second Intifada, this group directly fought against Israel. And its military wing Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (separated in 2007) was present in the Oct 7 attack and still fighting. This explains the "Christian" and Muslim unity against Israel's lawful conquests in all wars lost by the Arabs.

Yasser Arafat stated 1982 during a press conference at the UN that 'Jesus Christ was the first "Palestinian" fedayeen who carried his sword along the path on which the Palestinians today carry their cross.'

Jesus has been seen as a "Palestinian" identity in "Palestinian" liberation theology. This is a political interpretation that connects Jesus with modern "Palestinians" and their struggle. The distortion of history is obvious.

The fact that the Romans did not rename their province ‘Judea’ to ‘Palestine’ until 136, long after Jesus' death, and that the Prophet Muhammad did not found Islam until five hundred years later, is ignored. These propagandists attempt to equate the oppression and persecution of Jesus by the Jews at that time with the fate of the "Palestinians" today. And just as Jesus rose from the dead, so too have the "Palestinians Jesus descendants", risen from the ashes. These and other absurd statements by Palestinian politicians such as Jibril Rajoub or the Mufti of Jerusalem, Sheikh Muhammad Hussein, are documented by film recordings and official bulletins. Apart from the historical absurdity, this robs the Jews of their history and culture and invalidates Christianity

Jesus was the first Palestinian and the first Islamic Martyr in history - PA Minister of Prisoners

Benaiah468 said:

After Oct 7 it is clear, that the enemy wants all Jews dead.

In addition to Hamas, there were other "Palestinian" armed groups that also participated in the attacks on Oct 7. It is interesting to note that some of these groups were founded by "Christians", such as the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of "Palestine"). Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades is their military wing. The PFLP emerged from the Harakat al-Qawmiyyin al-Arab (Arab Nationalist Movement, ANM), which was founded in 1953 by George Habash, a "Palestinian Christian" from Lydda. In 1948, during the Arab-Israeli War, were armed forces from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq attacked Israel, 19-year-old Habash, a medical student, went to his hometown of Lydda to help his family.

DFLP (Democratic Front for the Liberation of "Palestine") was also founded by Jordanian Orthodox Christian (Nayef Hawatmeh). "National Resistance Brigades" or "Martyr Omar Al-Qassem Forces" is their military wing. Hawatmeh founded the group, originally called the Popular Democratic Front for the Liberation of "Palestine", in 1969 after it split from the Popular Front for the Liberation of "Palestine".

The red color headbands are used by PFLP, the black ones are used by both DELP and PIJ, and the green and dark green-brown colors are used by Al-Qassam/Hamas. All of these groups were involved directly in the Oct 7 attack alongside Hamas. This shows that these groups have good connections with Hamas.

Because of the small population of Christians in Israel (1% of Gaza and 2-3% of Judea/Smaria) majority of its members are Muslims. Even a small amount of "Christians" are in these groups now.

Another group, Fatah/PLO (currently the govt of Palestine) is known to have a lot of "Christians" as its members. Till the Second Intifada, this group directly fought against Israel. And its military wing Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (separated in 2007) was indeed present in the Oct 7 attack and still fighting. This explains the "Christian" and Muslim unity against Israel's lawful conquests in all wars lost by the Arabs.

Yasser Arafat stated 1982 during a press conference at the UN that 'Jesus Christ was the first "Palestinian" fedayeen who carried his sword along the path on which the Palestinians today carry their cross.'

Jesus has been seen as a "Palestinian" identity in "Palestinian" liberation theology. This is a political interpretation that connects Jesus with modern "Palestinians" and their struggle. The distortion of history is obvious.

The fact that the Romans did not rename their province ‘Judea’ to ‘Palestine’ until 136, long after Jesus' death, and that the Prophet Muhammad did not found Islam until five hundred years later, is ignored. These propagandists attempt to equate the oppression and persecution of Jesus by the Jews at that time with the fate of the "Palestinians" today. And just as Jesus rose from the dead, so too have the "Palestinians Jesus descendants", risen from the ashes. These and other absurd statements by Palestinian politicians such as Jibril Rajoub or the Mufti of Jerusalem, Sheikh Muhammad Hussein, are documented by film recordings and official bulletins. Apart from the historical absurdity, this robs the Jews of their history and culture and invalidates Christianity

Jesus was the first Palestinian and the first Islamic Martyr in history - PA Minister of Prisoners

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I am not sure if that was yes or no.

Philip_B said:

I am not sure if that was yes or no.

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Please note that this is a quote from an Israeli hostage relating to her specific experiences of being held captive. The ones I have named are included.

In the end times, Israel will occupy a special position in the world. Zechariah 12 predicts that with the coming of the Messiah, all nations will gather together to wage war against Jerusalem and G-d's people. This may have been difficult to comprehend in the past, but today we can see that the world may be moving in this direction.

Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your G-d. Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: Isa 40:1-2a

Christians are called not only to observe what G-d is doing with Israel, but also to actively comfort and support the Jewish people.

Israel has lost patience. After repeated provocations and deception by Hamas, Jerusalem has issued an ultimatum to the terrorist organisation with the tacit approval of the US, Egypt and Qatar.

At 8 p.m. sharp on Thursday evening, a 24-hour ultimatum that Israeli security circles described as a ‘final warning’ expired. Hamas was informed via mediating states that its fighters must vacate the area behind the so-called ‘yellow line’ in the Gaza Strip, the corridor that the IDF has defined as an operational security zone.

‘The window of opportunity has expired,’ an American government official told The Jerusalem Post. ‘Israel will only enforce the ceasefire where Hamas respects it. If the terrorists remain behind the line, the army will act.’ For the first time since the ceasefire began, there is official American approval for targeted Israeli operations behind the ‘Yellow Line’.

This has exhausted the diplomatic patience of the mediators. Egypt and Qatar had tried to persuade Hamas to withdraw in an orderly manner. But in Gaza, the opposite happened: fighters remained, posted observers, reinforced tunnel openings and provoked Israeli units along the line.

At the same time, Hamas continues to refuse to return the bodies of the Israeli hostages who were killed. Two bodies were handed over on Thursday, eight more, according to Israeli security services, are being deliberately withheld to exert pressure and gain time for negotiations.

Several Israeli sources report that Hamas is already in a position to hand over at least two more bodies. ‘They know exactly where they are,’ said an Israeli officer. ‘But they are using every delay to consolidate their control in the Gaza Strip and to present themselves as an equal player.’

Under the pretext of humanitarian cooperation with the Red Cross, Hamas has been allowed to cross the ‘yellow line’ several times in recent days to search for the bodies. However, according to Israeli assessments, the terrorist organisation abused this access for reconnaissance and logistical preparation.

An Israeli security official summarised the situation as follows: ‘There is hardly any pressure from the mediators on Hamas to hand over the dead. The organisation is using the issue to gain time and regroup militarily. We must expect days to pass without anything happening.’

It is noteworthy that Israel's decision to issue a 24-hour ultimatum was made with the approval of the US. After weeks of diplomatic restraint, Washington seems to have recognised that Hamas views the ceasefire not as a humanitarian measure but as a military tool.

The White House, along with Egypt and Qatar, has agreed to the ultimatum, a rare sign of consensus amid conflicting interests.
Israeli sources speak of a ‘coordinated line’ according to which the IDF retains the right to attack targets behind the yellow line once the deadline has passed.

Jerusalem is thus sending an unambiguous message: the ceasefire does not apply to terrorists who exploit it.

The yellow strip, a security corridor approximately 1.5 kilometres wide stretching from Rafah to Beit Hanun, now marks the border between Israeli-controlled territory and Hamas-controlled territory. It was originally intended to create a buffer zone to protect Israel's civilian population from further attacks.

However, Hamas has repeatedly retreated into this area in recent weeks.

Jerusalem knows that every additional day of hesitation weakens the credibility of deterrence. The ultimatum was therefore not only militarily necessary, but also politically inevitable.

Two years lie behind them, two years in which they fought their way from shaft to shaft, from street to street. The Israeli Combat Engineering Corps are the first to enter the Gaza Strip and the last to leave it.

Since the start of the fighting, which has long since expanded to include operations against Hezbollah in the north and in Syria, the engineering corps has destroyed hundreds of terrorist structures, both above and below ground.

‘We blew things up, dug, blocked, improvised. Hamas felt that we were pulling the rug out from under them – literally,’ says a battalion member.

The men and women of the pioneer units found what they hardly thought possible: explosives stores in residential buildings, rockets in children's bedrooms, command posts under mosques. ‘We went in, assuming that only one or two houses were suspicious and discovered that every house was an arms depot,’ says the the soldier. ‘The whole city was a war laboratory.’

The turning point came in the summer of 2024 in the Tel as-Sultan neighbourhood of Rafah. There, Israel decided to take out an entire Hamas battalion. ‘We found the central command complex there, tunnel connections in all directions, and when we approached, they fled,’ says the officer. ‘We saw the Hamas leaders running away.’

Among them: Yahya Sinwar. Gaza's most wanted man, a symbol of cruelty, was there and escaped at the last minute. ‘A week after we left the area, we learned that Sinwar had been hiding there. He escaped through a side tunnel. Shortly afterwards, he was eliminated. All his commanders around him were killed.’

The tunnel operations were brutal. ‘We lost friends, brothers,’ says the battalion captain, now head of technical special equipment for the ground forces. ‘Some of us were literally standing over explosions when they were triggered.’ He recalls the accident in Jan 2024, when an electricity pylon accidentally activated a prepared explosive charge: six Israeli soldiers died and dozens were wounded. Among them was musician Idan Amedi, who survived. ‘We knew that anyone who crossed the border was taking that risk.’

The pioneers describe the war as an ‘engineering battle.’ It is no longer just about tanks or air strikes, it is about understanding the underground. Every tunnel discovered is surveyed, secured and blown up. ‘We examine every tunnel connection in detail to understand how the system works,’ explains the soldier. ‘Almost every house in Gaza was part of an enemy structure.’

Nineteen soldiers from Battalion 601 have fallen since the start of the war. While Hamas leaders like Sinwar flee and hide behind civilians, these men and women remain visible. And they know that the fight is not over yet. But they also know that every tunnel they blow up destroys a piece of the darkness that has surrounded Gaza for decades.

The case of Moumen al-Natour shows how deep fear and ideological control run in Gaza.

It is a family drama that is also a political symbol. Moumen al-Natour, a 34-year-old lawyer and human rights activist from Gaza, published a commentary in the Washington Post that dared to do the unthinkable: he criticised Hamas, openly, directly, by name. A few days later, his own relatives publicly declared themselves ‘innocent’ of his opinion.

In a statement posted on Platform X (formerly Twitter), the family described him as a ‘deviant perpetrator’ and emphasised that they remained ‘part of the resistant national fabric’, a euphemism for unconditional loyalty to Hamas.

‘It is not a war between Israel and Gaza,’ he wrote, ‘but a war between Hamas and Gaza itself.’

He recounted years of oppression, friends who disappeared at the hands of the terrorist organisation, and how he himself narrowly escaped death on several occasions. Hamas, he wrote, had turned Gaza ‘into a giant prison where people have long since forgotten the keys.’

But while his text attracted attention in Washington and Jerusalem, the reaction at home was deadly serious.

‘It is not a war between Israel and Gaza,’ he wrote, ‘but a war between Hamas and Gaza itself.’

He recounted years of oppression, friends who disappeared at the hands of the terrorist organisation, and how he himself narrowly escaped death on several occasions. Hamas, he wrote, had turned Gaza ‘into a giant prison where people have long since forgotten the keys.’

But while his text attracted attention in Washington and Jerusalem, the reaction at home was deadly serious.

The al-Natour family published their statement in the tone of a political indictment. They accused Moumen of joining the so-called Abu Shabab militia, one of the groups that has been fighting Hamas in recent months and operating in Israeli-controlled areas south of the ‘Yellow Line Corridor’.

In Gaza, a single dissenting sentence is enough to be considered a traitor. Relatives are forced to publicly renounce their own children in order to avoid suspicion and retaliation.

For Hamas, any deviation is not a difference of opinion, but hostility; not civil courage, but ‘collaboration’. Even those who advocate reconstruction, education or medical aid are quickly labelled as tools of the ‘occupation’.

The fact that his family branded him a ‘perpetrator’ is more than a personal rupture. It is the visible symptom of a deep-seated illness: a society that has learned to mistrust its own children when they speak freely.

The fact that his family has now disowned him shows how powerful the climate of intimidation is.

Even in a war overshadowed by horror, these are news stories that transcend the limits of humanity. On Fri evening, the ICRC handed over to Israel the remains of three bodies, allegedly those of Israeli hostages killed in the Gaza Strip. In the early hours of the Sabbath, the bitter certainty dawned: not a single one of the body parts handed over belonged to any of the eleven Israeli hostages who died at the hands of Hamas.

In Israel, people had already suspected as much. They are all too familiar with the tactics of the terrorist organisation, which uses not only the living but also the dead for political gain. Experts at the Institute of Forensic Medicine in Abu Kabir confirmed in the morning that the remains were human, but did not belong to Israeli hostages. The Red Cross had handed over the remains after Hamas had handed them over as part of an alleged humanitarian gesture.

Each time, the pain of the families is exploited, and each time, horror and anger remain.

According to government circles, Hamas could have handed over at least two of the hostages who were killed. But they decided against it again and sent anonymous body parts instead. An act of contempt disguised as a humanitarian gesture.

Just two days earlier, Israel had completed the repatriation and identification of two murdered hostages: Amiram Kuper from Kibbutz Nir Oz and Sahar Baruch from Be'eri. For the relatives of the remaining eleven hostages who were killed, the hell continues. They live in an endless cycle of hope, fear and disappointment. Hamas knows this and exploits it.

It is a cruel strategy: manipulating the dead to maintain power over the living. The dehumanisation is complete when body parts become political tools. Israeli officials now openly speak of ‘psychological warfare’. The enemy no longer targets military positions, but the heart of a society that never leaves its fallen behind.

In the background, mediators from Egypt and Qatar continue to strive for progress in the talks about the remaining hostages. But trust has been destroyed. As long as Hamas flouts the rules of humanity, there can be no real solution. The abuse of the dead hostages shows that the organisation is not interested in exchange, but in humiliation.

Commentators in major daily newspapers emphasised that the episode revealed the moral divide between Israel and its enemies: while Israel itself identifies and buries the remains of its enemies, Hamas mocks the grief of families with fake handovers.

Hezbollah is not facing disarmament, but is in the midst of a rearmament process. According to information from security circles, which is also cited by the Wall Street Journal, the Lebanese Shiite militia has once again become a regional power in the shadows in recent months, despite daily Israeli attacks in the south and although the Lebanese army is officially tasked with disarming the terrorist organisation.

The news that has Jerusalem on alert is that the weapons arsenal is growing again. Rockets, artillery pieces, anti-tank systems, drones and precision components are being identified in increasing numbers. Some of them come from Syria, via smuggling routes that are still functioning despite Israeli air operations. Another part arrives by sea or is manufactured directly in Lebanon itself. According to the Israeli military, these are no longer isolated remnants, but a systematic rebuilding.

Particularly disturbing is the assessment by Arab intelligence services that Hezbollah has changed its operational concept. Instead of operating within centralised command structures, it now works in smaller, autonomous cells, similar to the model used by Hamas in the Gaza Strip. This ‘dispersion of power’ makes it more difficult to attack and allows it to remain operational even after suffering heavy blows. Veterans from within the organisation, many of whom are battle-hardened in Syria, are taking on the training of new recruits in hidden facilities.

The agreement between Jerusalem and Beirut, which was concluded a year ago, was intended not only to secure the border, but also to create a framework for the disarmament of Hezbollah. Instead, it is now apparent that the Lebanese army is acting hesitantly, with parts of its structures even cooperating with the militia in specific areas, especially in regions where the operational separation between state and paramilitary forces has long since dissolved.

Israel. In recent months, the country has attacked more than a thousand targets in Lebanon: warehouses, launch pads, communication points. But the effect remains limited when new supplies arrive at the same time and local workshops continue production. The attempt to force the enemy to surrender through sustained pressure faces a dilemma: Israel's military strength can destroy, but cannot permanently prevent Hezbollah from regenerating as long as the Lebanese state does not intervene independently.

Hezbollah's resurgence is not a surprise, but it is a warning sign. Can we now imagine the significance of the establishment of another Muslim state in the midst of the biblical heartland of the Jewish people for the potential risk of Israel's destruction?

Most international reports on the situation in Judea and Samaria follow a familiar narrative: the threat to stability, they say, comes from Jewish settlers and construction projects. But if you look at the facts, you see a different picture. The real reason for the growing insecurity lies in the massive resurgence of "Palestinian" terror, a wave of targeted arson attacks and systematic land grabbing through illegal "Palestinian" construction activity, mostly with European support.

While Israeli security forces operate day and night against terrorist cells in Nablus, Jenin and Tulkarm, weapons are being stored, firebombs prepared and attacks planned in the same areas. The threat is increasing, particularly along the so-called seam zone, the security line between Samaria and central Israel. Terrorists are already regularly firing shots across the barrier at Israeli towns in the Bat Hefer and Gilboa areas.

The release of hundreds of "Palestinian" prisoners as part of the hostage agreement with Hamas has further exacerbated this danger. Numerous returnees in Jenin, Hebron and Qalqilya are rejoining militant groups. The idea of a demilitarised "Palestinian" territory, as once envisaged in the Oslo Accords, has finally failed.

Hardly any other issue is as consistently overlooked in the West as the deliberate construction of tens of thousands of illegal "Palestinian" buildings in the strategically sensitive Zone C. According to Israeli estimates, over 90,000 structures have been built without permission in recent years, often in areas that have never had an Arab presence before. These buildings cut through Israeli settlement blocks, threaten access routes and alter the local landscape.

In the corridor between the Jordan Valley and Ein Gedi alone, over 17,000 illegal buildings have been constructed in the immediate vicinity of the security fence. In the so-called Jerusalem Envelopment Zone, "Palestinian" construction crews occupied over 2,600 dunams of land and erected 1,500 high-rise buildings without any permits in neighbourhoods such as Shuafat and Kafr Akab, often with twenty or more storeys, without technical supervision or structural testing. Experts warn that even a moderate earthquake could lead to disaster.

At the same time, radical activists are conducting a campaign of targeted arson attacks against Jewish farmers in the mountains of Benjamin and Samaria. The pastures, which serve as a natural resource for livestock farming, are being systematically set on fire in order to drive Israeli farmers away. This tactic is reminiscent of the fire balloons and incendiary kites that Hamas used for years to destroy fields in southern Israel.

In a region where every gap is immediately exploited, inaction can be fatal.

Anyone who believes that waiting will bring security is mistaken. What is needed now is decisive control.

Major General Avi Bluth, commander of the Central Command, has developed a clear strategy: daily operations in terrorist strongholds, massive use of reconnaissance, air support and targeted eliminations of leading terrorists. To do this, the army needs more personnel, equipment and political backing.

At the same time, the Israeli government must plan for the long term. Housing in existing cities such as Ma'ale Adumim, Gush Etzion and Ariel has become unaffordable for many young families. The answer to this cannot be stagnation, but rapid housing construction, including in the form of temporary buildings or high-rise blocks, to ensure population growth in central areas. Infrastructure projects such as the planned Highway 80, a railway line through the Jordan Valley and a new airport in the Horkania Valley would not only make economic sense, but would also be indispensable in terms of security policy.

In areas neglected by the PA, sewage, waste management, licensing, Israel should assume responsibility in order to prevent environmental and security risks. Equally urgent is the monitoring of Arab schools in East Jerusalem, where teaching materials that glorify terrorism and hatred of Jews continue to be distributed.

In the upcoming election year, Israel faces a clear choice: will a future prime minister actually push ahead with the expansion and security of Judea and Samaria or once again bow to pressure from international organisations and courts?

Whoever does not control the land loses it. Whoever allows the security zones of Jerusalem and the Jordan Valley to fall into disrepair jeopardises the entire country's line of defence.

Benaiah468 said:

70 per cent of "Palestinians" reject the disarmament of Hamas.

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Opposition is particularly strong in Judea and Samaria, at 78 per cent, while in the Gaza Strip 55 per cent are against it. This points to a broad consensus: Hamas should not be disarmed. I understand more and more that the people in the Gaza Strip live in a state of abused loyalty, those who oppress them sell themselves as their only protectors and saviours. Hamas retains its power not despite the suffering of the population, but precisely because of it. Violence becomes legitimisation, and the myth of ‘resistance at any price’ replaces any sense of responsibility.

I was listening to a comentry I think from Murray who said something very interesting. It seems the same people who are calling Isreal an apartheid regime also call the west a colonialist regime who did similar. A settler State.

That is they call their own nations apartheid and settler States for which they must resist and rise up to destroy.

Yet at the same time most of the people fleeing nations who actually have oppressive regimes are wanting to come to these so called apartheid and oppressive nations.

In fact the ideologies and activists who are calling their own nations oppressors are encouraging the very people they claim to care about to come to their so called oppressive nations.

Why is that. If these western nations are so bad and oppressive why would people want to live there.

From what I understand radicalism has grown throughout the world in recent years. This is a fact and most of it comes from the Islamist nations. That is a fact. As a result partly this has caused a massive refugee and immigration crisis.

Yet at the same time many nations have had more or less open borders as a progressive policy with good intentions of helping these people. But they have not integrated or really vetted most that have come in.

When we actually look into the general beliefs of many of these radical nations we actually see the majority support the actions of groups like Hamas or are unwilling to denounce the evil. There was around maybe 5% of radical Islamist. Now its grown to maybe 10 or 15% which at the same time the majority like in Gaza have sympathy for their cause.

In other words over the last 25 years or so with lax immigration western nations have more or less imported radical ideology into their nations which has influences home grown radicals and this is what we now see spilling out into the streets. The west naively invited evil into their own nations.

essentialsaltes said:

Speaking of propaganda, that's some pretty blatant stuff.

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"All Palestinians are terrorists and their babies."
If i had a nickle for everytime I read this idea on CF I'd have 2 nickles, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice.