Israel-Hamas Thread II

eclipsenow said:

The international community is aiming to help develop a more legitimate Palestinian Government.

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The "Palestinians" are completely unprepared for this and their own state, both in terms of character (when children learn about the murder of Jews at summer camp and Hamas facilities) and politically (as Abbas does everything he can to keep power in his hands and Hamas continues to gain support and there is no alternative to dependence on the PA, which promotes terror) and ideologically (no mention of reading the charter. And yes, Jews would not have access to "Palestinian" territories, even though they are biblical heartland).

Almost two years after the start of the Gaza War, it is clear that the ceasefire does not mean an end to Islamist terror, but rather its return in a new form. According to a report in the British Telegraph, the terrorist organisation Hamas is systematically working to regain its former position of power in the Gaza Strip, using the same methods it has employed since 2007: intimidation, torture, public executions and control over the civilian population.

‘Hamas has not changed its DNA,’ says Israeli security expert Kobi Michael, former head of the Palestine Division in the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs. ‘It has no intention of disarming, leaving the Gaza Strip or relinquishing power.’

While the international community talks of a ‘post-war order’ and ‘stabilisation,’ Hamas is consolidating its power once again. Reports from Gaza show that armed Hamas members have occupied offices, schools and humanitarian facilities in recent weeks including the Gaza Community Mental Health Programme, whose building they seized by force to house their own families.

According to witness statements, Hamas is once again carrying out public executions. Members of opposition clans such as the Doghmush and Abu Shabab families, were shot dead in the street by Hamas fighters. Western observers speak of a ‘second phase of terror’ in which the organisation pretends to be relaxing its grip externally, but internally rules with brutal force.

A spokesman for the PA security forces, Anwar Rajab, compared the recent executions to the methods of the so-called Islamic State: ‘This is ISIS - nothing else.’

At the same time, the BBC reports that Hamas has mobilised around 7,000 new fighters to restore control in all districts of Gaza. The so-called ‘Radaa’ unit, a subgroup of the Qassam Brigades, is said to have carried out four armed operations against rival groups in Oct alone.

The recruitment of young men and the recovery of weapons are also in full swing. Residents report that Hamas is asking civilians to report unexploded ordnance, apparently to use the material for future fighting.

The return of Hamas to power in Gaza is a warning signal for those that are focusing on negotiations and reconstruction. Gaza is once again under the control of those who regard the civilian population as a bargaining chip. Terror lives on, only its forms have changed.

eclipsenow said:

THEREFORE, "Israel" must continue their harsh blockade on Gaza, and their illegal settler-occupation of the West Bank and illegal killings of Palestinians.

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Even though many people today do not want to admit it, the fact remains that the Gaza Strip also belongs to G-d's earthly people. It belongs to Israel. The same applies to Judea and Samaria, where many Arabs also live. It is core Israeli territory.

The current land disputes with Israel over the so-called ‘occupied territories’ will be relatively short-lived. What we see today are shadows or harbingers of future events.

Biblical prophecy points to the Millennium, when the people of Israel will live in peace within the borders that were unconditionally promised to Abraham. These borders extend from the Jordan River in the east to the Mediterranean Sea in the west and include not only Judea/Samaria and Gaza but also parts of Jordan, Lebanon and Syria.

Just two months after the Hamas massacre, the WHO is said to have discussed how the term ‘famine’ could be used strategically to weaken Israel politically. This was stated by Michel Thieren, WHO representative in Israel, in a podcast. The Jerusalem Post reported on this.

Thieren said that in Dec 2023, he attended a multilateral meeting in Geneva that focused on the Gaza Strip. There, he said, there was explicit discussion of how the term could be scientifically substantiated and used communicatively to exert pressure on Jerusalem. ‘I was completely shocked,’ said the doctor. ‘There was open talk of finding a term that would be suitable for exerting political pressure.’

He was particularly irritated by the fact that in these circles, it had already been determined at the beginning of the war from Oct 8’, who was the perpetrator and who was the victim. The terms ‘genocide’ and “famine” had been brought into play very early on. ‘The guilt was established, and then attempts were made to prove it retrospectively. That's not normal,’ said Thieren.

‘The word was shouted into the void on social media and the damage was done,’ said Thieren.

Thieren also takes a critical view of the growing number of extensive reports on alleged Israeli war crimes: ‘There is no 72-page justification when something is clear,’ he said. By way of comparison, he referred to the genocide in Rwanda, which was described in a 24-page independent report with only one paragraph providing justification.

Thieren was in Europe on Oct 7 2023, but immediately travelled to Israel and shortly afterwards visited the devastated kibbutzim of Beeri and Kfar Aza. ‘For the third time in my life, I saw what a land of massacre looks like,’ he said. Previously, he had only witnessed similar scenes in Srebrenica and Kigali.

He described what he saw in southern Israel as ‘a landscape of murder, silent, frozen, like a Pompeii of crime.’ According to Thieren, there is ‘no context’ for the murders committed by Hamas. Anyone looking for explanations is relativising the incomprehensible: ‘There is no context for Oct 7. That is impossible.’

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu orders immediate 'powerful' strikes on Gaza​

Earlier, Israeli officials said the remains of a hostage returned by Hamas were body parts of another hostage who was recovered by Israeli troops almost two years ago.

"Following security consultations, Prime Minister Netanyahu instructed the military echelon to carry out powerful strikes in the Gaza Strip immediately," his office said in a statement.


An IDF official said the command is a result of Hamas allegedly attacking soldiers in Rafah in an Israeli-controlled area. NBC News has not independently verified this attack. The official would not confirm if airstrikes would be launched Tuesday night. The U.S. State Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the move.

Before Netanyahu's announcement, Hamas official Suhail al-Hindi told Al Jazeera that the group has faced difficulties recovering hostages' bodies and has asked Israel to approve the entry of heavy equipment as well as permission for search teams to enter "red zones" to get the work done, which Israel allegedly refused. Al-Hindi also restated Hamas' commitment to the ceasefire agreement and accused Israel of falsely accusing the group of violating it.

How much firing before it’s no longer a cease fire?

Benaiah468 said:

‘There is no context for Oct 7.

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One can only imagine what reason you would have for saying that. One reason might be that you wish to take the side of Israel in all things.

Criticism of Israel is not of itself anti-semitism.

Benaiah468 said:

The Islamist movement, instead of prioritizing the integrity of the "Palestinian" people, repeatedly provides Israel with pretexts to devastate the Gaza Strip.

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And "Israel" (with the government being Militant Zionist Imperialist Conquerors of the Medieval variety) JUMP at every opportunity!
It gives them another excuse to use their "Palestinian Laboratory" to test their latest weapons - and market them as "Battle Tested."
Anthony Loewenstein - The Palestine Laboratory Podcast

But keep up the Persecution! Long live the Palestinian Laboratory - and it's products - Israel's Military Industrial Exports!


And the historical irony continues....


The persecuted, who ask us to remember the true and awful horrors of the Holocaust, then wave their hands frantically and shout "Look at that thing over there!" as they carry out something similar.

A friend of mine with a Masters in this subject said of the August 2025 100,000 strong march across the Sydney Harbour Bridge in full subtropical rainstorm:

CONTEXT: Aussies are a laid back bunch. We're usually too busy having BBQ's and going to the beach or watching sports to get out and do something crazy radical and protest!

This is footage from the Sydney March for Humanity mentioned above. High level Australian politicians, celebrities, and powerful activists all called for the SANCTIONING of Israel until the war stopped and Palestine was recognised as a state!

Videos like this Short went viral with the crowd of 100,000 on a rainy day put to the backing score of the Hunger Games song "Hanging tree."
I cannot emphasise this enough - apart from some minority groups like the Gay Pride marches - Aussies tend not to protest. We're a cynical bunch and often think "Why bother? What can I do about it? I'm gonna have another beer and sausage sanga and watch the footy."

Then THIS happened - and within a week the Prime Minister had agreed to recognise the State of Palestine!

Where is the ‘Palestinian’ who will take the lead and say: I will replace Fatah, Hamas and all other ISIS groups and build a democratic state? I have not yet heard or seen anyone in the media who has said this. Do you happen to know anyone to whom this applies?

Such a state is merely a figment of the imagination. Muslims do not come to terms with democracy. Such an attempt will end in nothing less than a second Lebanon or Gaza.

Benaiah468 said:

Abbas is the main contact person for Europeans who want to establish a democratic "Palestine".

For decades, it has been part of his tactic to present himself as ‘moderate’ in speeches in English. In front of Arabic-speaking audiences, he regularly advocates the opposite. After Trump took office, for example, Abbas announced that he would stop paying terror pensions, monthly payments to terrorists or their families. Shortly afterwards, it emerged that this was a lie. The payments continue.

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Palestinian Authority caught hiding terror payments despite claims of reform

There is no alternative to dependence on the PA, which encourages terror.

“Terrorists are the superheroes of the Palestinian Authority. And that’s what they tell their people... (excerpt from article above)

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The new "Palestinian" generation is learning to love what human beings should hate. They are victims of their own current generation, who is training them to become worse.

Of Trump's 20-point plan, only three points have been more or less implemented so far: a ceasefire, combined with a partial withdrawal by Israel to designated lines in the Gaza Strip; the return of living and dead Israeli hostages from the Gaza Strip; and the release of 250 "Palestinian" terrorists sentenced to life imprisonment in Israel and 1,700 other "Palestinian" terrorists from Israeli prisons.

There is no agreement whatsoever on the disarmament of Hamas and the post-war order in the Gaza Strip.

A Civil-Military Coordination Centre (CMCC) has now been set up in Kiriat Gat, Israel, which will initially monitor compliance with the ceasefire and probably also prepare for the deployment of peacekeeping forces to the Gaza Strip with the agreement, but not under the control, of the UN.

But whoever is ultimately willing to send soldiers, no country in the world will send its own troops to the Gaza Strip to wage war against Hamas and that is exactly what it would mean if attempts were made to disarm the terrorist group against its will. The only possible task for international troops could be peacekeeping, but under no circumstances peace enforcement. If they are patrolling the Gaza Strip with weapons, that is not a situation any country would want to get involved in.

The reconstruction of the coastal enclave, if indeed it were possible, would be supported by Egypt, Jordan, the Gulf states, Saudi Arabia and possibly Qatar, but these countries are demanding that the PA participate in the administration, which Israel rejects. And no one believes that the PA will actually implement the fundamental reforms required of it in the Trump plan.

Benaiah468 said:

There is no alternative to dependence on the PA, which encourages terror.

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In light of the latest developments, the question arises: Are Egypt and Qatar working to ensure that Hamas continues to rule the Gaza Strip by allowing the terrorist organisation to select members of a planned ‘government of experts’ itself?

Hamas has presented a list of more than forty ‘independent national figures’ who it considers potential candidates for the formation of a technocratic body to administer the Gaza Strip.

According to a report by Israeli news channel Kan News, Hamas has already selected half of the members of the expert government, including figures who sympathise with the terrorist organisation, while the PA, led by Mahmoud Abbas, nominated the other half which reflects a fragile balance of power between the two "Palestinian" entities. Mediators, including Egypt, submitted the complete list to Hamas for approval, allowing the terrorist organisation to maintain its influence in the Gaza Strip even after the war.

The factions made no mention of an ‘international transitional authority’ (a body proposed in Sep 2025 to administer the Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the Gaza war) or the ‘peace council’ envisaged in Trump's plan. This suggests that they reject any international role in the administration of the Gaza Strip. For the factions, the role of the international community should be limited to providing billions of dollars for the "Palestinians" in the Gaza Strip.

It goes without saying that the "Palestinian" terrorist organisations that gathered in Cairo demonstratively ignored that part of Trump's plan calling for them to lay down their arms. Hamas leaders have repeatedly emphasised that their organisation has no intention of disarming before the establishment of an independent and sovereign state, which contradicts the Trump plan, which states on this issue.

On Oct 10, Mohammed Nazzal confirmed on the Emirati television channel Al-Mashhad TV that ‘the Hamas movement will never surrender its weapons’

Senior Hamas Official: Hamas Will Never Surrender Its Weapons, Hamas Leaders Will Not Leave Gaza

Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah faction has also spoken out against international involvement in the administration of the Gaza Strip, according to a report by Wafa, the official news agency of the PA, on Oct 25:

x.com

Neither Fatah nor Hamas are interested in Trump's ‘peace council’ or any other international body playing a role in the administration of the Gaza Strip, which they want to be ruled by their own loyalists.

What we are currently witnessing is an attempt by both Fatah and Hamas, with the help of Egypt and Qatar, Hamas's most important supporter and financial backer, to circumvent the American president's plan. If Fatah and Hamas prevail, the "Palestinian" government of experts would be the mother of all deceptions.

Desk trauma said:

How much firing before it’s no longer a cease fire?

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It's an "alternative" ceasefire.

Desk trauma said:

How much firing before it’s no longer a cease fire?

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You just cross your fingers and the ceasefire is off.

Israel says ceasefire back on after strikes kill more than 100 in Gaza

And then you uncross them and the ceasefire is back on.

essentialsaltes said:

You just cross your fingers and the ceasefire is off.

Israel says ceasefire back on after strikes kill more than 100 in Gaza

And then you uncross them and the ceasefire is back on.

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Too often, Hamas has broken agreements in order to gain tactical advantages. The ceasefire may be politically necessary, but it remains fragile as long as Hamas views it merely as a tactical pause.

Only now is it becoming clear that the escalation in Rafah was not a sudden incident. Hamas had already attacked Israeli soldiers on Monday and Jerusalem remained silent. The decision not to respond was a political risk. Today, it has become an open message: Israel's restraint is over.

Just one day later, Hamas attacked again, this time with anti-tank missiles and sniper fire.

Israel's deliberate silence regarding the first violation of the ceasefire was more than a diplomatic gesture, it was an attempt to give the ceasefire one last chance. But Israel's strategy of ‘containment’ (restraint without retaliation) proved to be a trap: Hamas interpreted the silence as a sign of weakness.

Israel is not responding to a spontaneous escalation, but to a series of deliberate provocations that have been deliberately built up over 48 hours.

Israel has also decided to expand the so-called ‘yellow corridor’, the security zone along the border. This will extend Israel's military presence to additional areas in southern Gaza.

According to information from Israeli security circles, the re-arrest of several Hamas prisoners released under the latest agreement is currently being considered. This measure is intended to serve as direct political leverage: if Hamas breaks the terms of the agreement, it will lose the benefits gained under the agreement. ‘Those who abuse the agreement will lose their protection,’ said a government representative.

The deception, in which Hamas pretended to ‘rediscover’ the remains of an Israeli soldier who had already been buried, is seen in Jerusalem as a deliberate act of psychological warfare. Israeli intelligence circles accuse Hamas of misusing the alleged search operations for the bodies of Israeli hostages to restore underground tunnel structures. One officer put it bluntly: ‘These excavators are not searching for the dead, they are digging at their old war system.’

Benaiah468 said:

Only now is it becoming clear that the escalation in Rafah was not a sudden incident. Hamas had already attacked Israeli soldiers on Monday and Jerusalem remained silent. The decision not to respond was a political risk. Today, it has become an open message: Israel's restraint is over.

Just one day later, Hamas attacked again, this time with anti-tank missiles and sniper fire.

Israel's deliberate silence regarding the first violation of the ceasefire was more than a diplomatic gesture, it was an attempt to give the ceasefire one last chance. But Israel's strategy of ‘containment’ (restraint without retaliation) proved to be a trap: Hamas interpreted the silence as a sign of weakness.

Israel is not responding to a spontaneous escalation, but to a series of deliberate provocations that have been deliberately built up over 48 hours.

Israel has also decided to expand the so-called ‘yellow corridor’, the security zone along the border. This will extend Israel's military presence to additional areas in southern Gaza.

According to information from Israeli security circles, the re-arrest of several Hamas prisoners released under the latest agreement is currently being considered. This measure is intended to serve as direct political leverage: if Hamas breaks the terms of the agreement, it will lose the benefits gained under the agreement. ‘Those who abuse the agreement will lose their protection,’ said a government representative.

The deception, in which Hamas pretended to ‘rediscover’ the remains of an Israeli soldier who had already been buried, is seen in Jerusalem as a deliberate act of psychological warfare. Israeli intelligence circles accuse Hamas of misusing the alleged search operations for the bodies of Israeli hostages to restore underground tunnel structures. One officer put it bluntly: ‘These excavators are not searching for the dead, they are digging at their old war system.’

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Peace in our time.

Of course “nothing will jeopardise” a ceasefire if you can claim it is holding while one side kills 104 people, including 46 children, in overnight air raids.

In fact Israel has repeatedly violated the ceasefire since it took effect on October 10, both by direct attacks on Palestinians (Tuesday night’s raids bring the number killed by Israeli action in Gaza since the fighting has officially stopped to 211) and by allowing access only to a fraction of the promised humanitarian assistance.

It has refused to reopen the Rafah crossing (itself a violation) and continues to severely restrict the number of aid lorries, though the people of Gaza face famine as a result of its blockade, and a chronic shortage of medicines and medical equipment — when not only are hundreds of thousands seriously injured, but disease is spreading at what the World Health Organisation calls a “catastrophic” rate because of the destruction of health and sanitation infrastructure.

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Whether Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would have reacted quite so explosively if announcing a national emergency hadn’t conveniently cut short a hearing in his own ongoing corruption trial, we don’t know. But his decision to treat Hamas’s return, whether wittingly or not, of the wrong person’s remains as an outrageous breach of the truce has cost 104 people their lives.

As UN special rapporteur Dr Francesca Albanese puts it, Israel’s approach to a ceasefire is “you cease, I fire.”

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So Israel must be made to pay. Not only violations of the ceasefire, but the occupation itself must be made to cost too much — in severed trade, cultural and sporting boycotts, diplomatic isolation.

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Israel will keep killing Palestinians, ceasefire or no, unless it faces consequences

Though I think it's being optimistic to think that cultural and sporting boycotts will stop Israel wantonly killing many more Palestinians.

Report: US watchdog says IDF committed ‘many hundreds’ of potential human rights violations in Gaza​

A US government watchdog says in a classified report that the IDF committed “many hundreds” of potential human rights violations during the Gaza war that would take the State Department “multiple years” to review, The Washington Post reports.

The report from the State Department’s Office of Inspector General was completed several days before the Gaza ceasefire went into effect on October 10.

The report assessed the US government’s adherence to the so-called Leahy Law, which bars aid to foreign security force units credibly accused of human rights violations.

The report revealed by The Post, based on details provided by two officials, notes that the criteria for making such determinations are more stringent for Israel than for other countries and that the process includes higher-level US officials and a lengthier review. Former State Department employees critical of Israel tell The Post that the policy results in Israel avoiding accountability for rights abuses.

Vanellus said:

Israel will keep killing Palestinians, ceasefire or no, unless it faces consequences

Though I think it's being optimistic to think that cultural and sporting boycotts will stop Israel wantonly killing many more Palestinians.

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If Hamas propaganda is to be believed. Everyone there is a terrorist. There are no innocent civilians in Gaza, not a single one. They simply do not exist. These are families controlled by Hamas. These are children who, from the moment they are born, are taught that Israel belongs to "Palestine" and that Jews must be hated. The fact that the media occasionally point out the unreliability of the figures they present to the public does not make things any better: they continue to disseminate figures from sources they know full well are lying, thereby playing into the hands of Hamas, whose only survival strategy is to increase international pressure to force Israel to stop fighting Hamas. A large proportion of the death toll does not come from civilian casualties, but rather from Hamas fighters who have been killed. But this is still far from enough. Hamas still has 15,000-25,000 fighters underground and continues to recruit thousands for jihad, including numerous children.