The Beast of Revelation is a Political and Religious Entity.

Reddogs, I'm sure you have experience frustration on many occasions while you have shared from scripture the correct understanding on death, hell, and the sabbath, only to discover, that individuals will still adamantly defend what their religion teaches even through it is not supported by a "thus saith the Lord."

But are you any different than they when you promote our teaching that the first beast of Revelation 13 is the Rome Catholic Church, despite the prophecy foretelling the timing in which the first beast rises from the sea, will be after one of it's seven heads, (the papacy), wound is healed. You are well aware that wound was inflicted in 1798, and it did not start it's healing until 1929, under the Latern Tready. As of this day the wound is not fully healed nor will it be, until the Roman Catholic Church joins in consolidation with the six other heads (religions) and the ten kings (the ten toes of Dan. 2) which make up this beast.

Based on the specific timing in which the two beast in Revelation 13, are to appear on the worlds scene (some point in the future), our interpretation (SDA) of which you adamantly defend, is invalid.

Tigger Boy said:

Reddogs, I'm sure you have experience frustration on many occasions while you have shared from scripture the correct understanding on death, hell, and the sabbath, only to discover, that individuals will still adamantly defend what their religion teaches even through it is not supported by a "thus saith the Lord."

But are you any different than they when you promote our teaching that the first beast of Revelation 13 is the Rome Catholic Church, despite the prophecy foretelling the timing in which the first beast rises from the sea, will be after one of it's seven heads, (the papacy), wound is healed. You are well aware that wound was inflicted in 1798, and it did not start it's healing until 1929, under the Latern Tready. As of this day the wound is not fully healed nor will it be, until the Roman Catholic Church joins in consolidation with the six other heads (religions) and the ten kings (the ten toes of Dan. 2) which make up this beast.

Based on the specific timing in which the two beast in Revelation 13, are to appear on the worlds scene (some point in the future), our interpretation (SDA) of which you adamantly defend, is invalid.

Click to expand...

Interesting. Why will you ignore the chronological order of beasts developed in the book of Daniel, and insist apparently, that all seven should exist at the same time? I can understand why one should determine that certain elements or influences of prior beast or kingdoms would continue on in those they were succeeded by, but not why they should all exist at the same time.

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

The final beast is destroyed by God at the end as described above and in Rev 19:20 & 20:10. The rest of the preceding beasts lives are prolonged for a season and time. That is to say I take it, that though their kingdom was defeated and overtaken by another, the people lived on whose religion and influence was absorbed by their conquerers. This is not so with the final beast, which having elements of all those before within as noted in the first two verses of Rev 13, morphs from 4th to 5th beast succeeding those before it in a different manner than attained their status as beasts. That is to say being succeeded from powers within, not from being conquered from without. Which beast also later resurrects as it were, unto the seventh and final beast which is destroyed in the lake of fire.

Resurrection - Rev 13:3&4, 15&16, & 17:8, 10&11

Destruction - Rev 19:20 & 20:10

It is the dragon that has seven heads, the first beast of Rev 13 being the manifestation of one of those heads and therefore the dragon, being described. Each beast represents one of the heads of the dragon, being his representation to the world during their reign. Existing in direct relationship to and or opposed to God's people or nation on this earth.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Beasts, kings, heads, and mountains all representing these same counterfeit kingdoms of the evil one in defiance and at war with the kingdom of God. As they are all said to be one another and or spoken of interchangeably in the following verses.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

They are the dragons counterfeit kingdoms or mountains if you will, as he was kicked out of the mountain or kingdom of God, which he manifests upon this earth through fallen humanity in defiance of God and His everlasting kingdom.

Ezk 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Jer 51:24 And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the LORD. 25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain. 26 And they shall not take of thee a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but thou shalt be desolate for ever, saith the LORD.

Babylon is the connecting factor of all the New Covenant or final beasts of biblical prophecy. The evil one is her king and gives her, her seat of authority.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Amo2 said:

Why will you ignore the chronological order of beasts developed in the book of Daniel, and insist apparently, that all seven should exist at the same time?

Click to expand...

Amo2, appreciate your interest in this conversation. If we were discussing the prophecies of Daniel, you would see I do not ignore the chronology of those four beast. However, this discussion is on the first beast of Rev. 13. One should not ignore the descriptive details of the beast if we are to understand its true identity. In this case the beast has seven heads and ten horns bearing crowns, and upon the heads the name of blasphemy. Too, it has some resemblance of a leopard, feet of a bear, and a lions mouth, representing the final union of nations, multitudes, and languages.

I will explain in further detail what makes up this beast should you be interested, but before I do I have a question for you. The reason for me asking is I surmise you have no idea as to what world wide events will propel this beast onto the world’s stage, therefore, your understanding of what this beast represents and what Satan intends to achieve through it is incorrect.

My question. What prophetic events forces the first beast of Rev. 13., up out of the sea?

Amo2 said:

It is the dragon that has seven heads, the first beast of Rev 13 being the manifestation of one of those heads and therefore the dragon, being described. Each beast represents one of the heads of the dragon, being his representation to the world during their reign. Existing in direct relationship to and or opposed to God's people or nation on this earth.

Click to expand...

Yes, the dragon of Rev. 12, has seven heads, but the first beast of Rev. 13, emerges from the sea, which represents nations, multitudes, and languages, unlike the dragon who appears from heaven, (Rev. 12:3). This beast cannot be representative of one of its heads, since it has seven, not to mention the ten horns and the 42 months it is given to power, after it appears.

I will identify this beast, but before I do, I’m interested in what you think the head that had the fatal wound represents along with the ten horns and if the 42 months are literal or 1260 years, day for a year?

I’ll be anxious to hear from you.

Tigger Boy said:

Amo2, appreciate your interest in this conversation. If we were discussing the prophecies of Daniel, you would see I do not ignore the chronology of those four beast. However, this discussion is on the first beast of Rev. 13. One should not ignore the descriptive details of the beast if we are to understand its true identity. In this case the beast has seven heads and ten horns bearing crowns, and upon the heads the name of blasphemy. Too, it has some resemblance of a leopard, feet of a bear, and a lions mouth, representing the final union of nations, multitudes, and languages.

I will explain in further detail what makes up this beast should you be interested, but before I do I have a question for you. The reason for me asking is I surmise you have no idea as to what world wide events will propel this beast onto the world’s stage, therefore, your understanding of what this beast represents and what Satan intends to achieve through it is incorrect.

My question. What prophetic events forces the first beast of Rev. 13., up out of the sea?

Click to expand...

The prophecy does not say certain events forced this beast out of the sea. It simply says that this beast rises out of the sea, which I agree via Rev 17:15 includes peoples, nations, multitudes, and tongues. In Daniel 7, it was the four winds of heaven striving upon the great sea, that caused the four beasts to arise out of the throngs of humanity. In Rev 13 concerning the fifth beast of biblical prophecy, we are not given a cause or commotion for or of its rise. It is simply seen to rise out of the sea. Suggesting different reasons for its rise, than that of the four former beasts of Daniel 7.

This is in fact in direct relation to the fourth beast of Daniel 7 itself, which Daniel declares to be different than the rest.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

This fourth beast does not end like the beasts before it did. As Daniel 7 points out as well.

Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

This beast will end when this world does by the judgement of God according to verses 9-11, being given to the burning flame as the beast of Rev 19:20, and 20:10 is also. That is because they are the same beast. Not identical, but both empowered by the dragon, as all the biblical beasts of prophecy were. Each tied together spiritually by paganism, and sun worship in particular. The fourth beast exists into the New covenant era, which does not rise, fall, or end like the beasts of the Old Covenant era. Being Satan's counterfeit to Christ's New Covenant spiritual kingdom, arising as a spiritual kingdom itself from within other kingdoms instead of conquering them from without, as the Old Covenant beasts did.

As the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ changed everything pertaining to the establishment of His universal kingdom on this earth, so the Devil changed the nature of his counterfeit kingdoms to mimic that of our Lords, and even in His name unto confusion and deception. God miraculously established His kingdom in this world of the Old Covenant with a literal nation, who fought literal wars with their enemies, conquering all while remaining faithful or chaste unto Him. But being described as a harlot or harlot when it was not, and being defeated by its enemies.

In this New Covenant era, our Lord Jesus Christ miraculously established His universal spiritual kingdom from within the Roman Empire, the very seat of the dragons fourth beast or head. Conquering Rome from within with the complete fall of paganism. Yet the Devil learned rapidly, went right back to his old tricks, and invaded our Lord's kingdom with world acceptance and the immediate apostasy that comes right along with it. Through which paganism marched right back into the front door of professed Christianity. Mimicking our Lord's establishment of His spiritual kingdom from within, with a new apostate and paganized version of worldly acceptable "Christianity". William Durant summarized the process fairly accurately in one paragraph.

When Christianity conquered Rome the ecclesiastical structure of the pagan church, the title and vestments of the pontifex maximus, the worship of the Great Mother and a multitude of comforting divinities, the sense of supersensible presences everywhere, the joy or solemnity of old festivals, and the pageantry of immemorial ceremony, passed like maternal blood into the new religion, and captive Rome captured her conqueror. The reins and skill of government were handed down by a dying empire to a virile papacy; the lost power of the broken sword was rewon by the magic of the consoling word; the armies of the state were replaced by the missionaries of the Church moving in all directions along the Roman roads; and the revolted provinces, accepting Christianity, again acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome. Through the long struggles of the Age of Faith the authority of the ancient capital persisted and grew, until in the Renaissance the classic culture seemed to rise from the grave, and the immortal city became once more the center of summit of the world's life and wealth and art. When, in 1936, Rome celebrated the 2689th anniversary of her foundation, she could look back upon the most impressive continuity of government and civilization in the history of mankind. May she rise again.(CAESAR AND CHRIST, A history of Roman Civilization and of Christianity from their beginnings to A.D.325. By Will Durant-1944)

Click to expand...

The papacy is in fact the revised pagan Roman Empire. Who has been conquering her enemies and nations from within for centuries now. Who is now on the verge of conquering these United States of America and consequently, the entire world. The little horn of Daniel 7 speaking blasphemies, was in fact the rise of the papacy within the Roman Empire among the nations of barbarians which invaded and subdued it. Biblical prophecy did not identify it as such in Daniel, because of God's foresight in regards to the establishment of the New Covenant in our Lord Christ, and the changes that would take place globally because of His coming. Therefore are we brought back to the four beasts of Daniel 7, in the rise of the fifth beast addressed in Revelation 13, the first beast of the book of Revelation. Addressing New covenant beasts of biblical prophecy who arise differently than Old
covenant ones, and will all end very differently as well.

The seven heads are if fact a direct reference back to the dragon addressed in Revelation 12 as well. As the dragon is the one who gives all these pagan beasts their seat and power. The dragon is the one who has seven heads, and he does not die when the fifth beast of biblical, first beast of Rev 13 receives a mortal wound to the head. The beast dies, not the dragon, the dragon simply begins raising another beast from with other kingdoms.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Tigger Boy said:

Yes, the dragon of Rev. 12, has seven heads, but the first beast of Rev. 13, emerges from the sea, which represents nations, multitudes, and languages, unlike the dragon who appears from heaven, (Rev. 12:3). This beast cannot be representative of one of its heads, since it has seven, not to mention the ten horns and the 42 months it is given to power, after it appears.

I will identify this beast, but before I do, I’m interested in what you think the head that had the fatal wound represents along with the ten horns and if the 42 months are literal or 1260 years, day for a year?

I’ll be anxious to hear from you.

Click to expand...

The dragon has seven heads and ten horns as well. The 42 months, 1260 days/years, time, times, and half a time, are all the same period of 1260 year reign of the papacy from 538 to 1798 as prophetic historicism has concluded long ago. The deadly wound has been healing for centuries now, as the political power of the papacy has been growing as well on a global scale. A national Sunday law will announce the resurrection of the Holy Roman Empire unto the final global persecuting beast of biblical prophecy. Again, Revelation verses 17:7-11 are crucial to properly understanding that the 7 beasts, kings, heads, and mountains all represent the same thing. As they are either said to be each other, or spoken of interchangeably in these verses. They are the seven kingdoms through which Satan carries on his rebellion against God and His people specifically, on this earth.

Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

I will have to do another post in a bit addressing the prophetic symbolism of kings, beasts, heads, and mountains, all of which represent kingdoms in other prophecies. Which is why I believe, they are used interchangeably above and or are said to be the same thing. This one is long enough and out is late.