Israel-Hamas Thread II

linux.poet · Friday at 10:57 PM

MOD HAT ON

This thread has had a cleanup to remove some unnecessary flaming and goading.

Let's try to avoid goading fellow posters and flaming political groups please. Remember to address the post and not the poster.

The thread is being reopened.

MOD HAT OFF

Hentenza · 2025-10-04T07:50:29-0500

rambot said:
Ok.
But....so what?

There are almost zero news sources that are completely in the middle.

Right. In my opinion there are a lot more left leaning news sources and the other problem is, of course, the bias.

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-04T08:21:29-0500

rambot said:
"Provoke"...from Crete?

The Israeli navy made a shocking discovery or rather, discovered nothing. Where medicines, food or other relief supplies should have been, there was only emptiness. The ministry's conclusion could not be clearer:

‘As we have already said, it was never about aid. It was always about provocation.’

x.com

No aid packages, no medical supplies, just empty decks. The activists' refusal to use legitimate delivery channels proves that this was never about the people of Gaza, but rather a spectacle against Israel.

In a statement, the flotilla said its ships were ‘carefully documented and loaded with medical supplies, food and other life-saving goods for the people of Gaza, who are being systematically starved by Israel.‘ It added that journalists, human rights observers, parliamentarians and aid organisations had already confirmed the presence of aid supplies on board.

But where is the evidence for this? Didn't no one of them take a picture of it? If humanitarian aid supplies were really on board, then thousands of pictures of them would already be flooding the internet. Look, we're not lying.

Why did not a single participant in the flotilla approach the Israelis after the interception and request that they ensure that the aid supplies still reached the Gaza Strip somehow? That should have been their main concern, should it not?

Instead, they evidently misled the international community, and many people are still being taken in by their hypocritical mission.

rambot said:
You are incorrect. They act quite inhumanely.

A simple question is usually enough to bring down the house of cards built on platitudes and based on the delusion of criticism of Israel

Greta:
“People were not treated well in Israel.”

Reporter:
“What do you mean?”

Greta:
“It was dehumanizing. They didn’t even let me say goodbye.”

Reporter:
“Can you give a clear example?”

Greta:
“I’d rather not say.”

x.com

No examples, no evidence, no names. Just the tone of indignation, as usual.

This appearance is exemplary of the new type of Western activist: loud, media-savvy, morally unassailable in their stance and remarkably taciturn when asked for evidence. Indignation has become currency. And reality that does not fit the narrative is simply cut away.

The matter is made particularly explosive by documents published by the Israeli Foreign Ministry. These documents prove close cooperation between Hamas and the Global Sumud Flotilla

Sahar TV

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-04T08:30:35-0500

Greta Thunberg claims that the Israeli navy committed an illegal act by hijacking the flotilla in international waters, which is incorrect

Sahar TV

During the Holocaust, millions of Jews were deported to extermination camps. There, numbers were branded onto their skin, not as protection, but as a final step in robbing them of their identity. To this day, these numbers remain a symbol of dehumanisation and horror.

When today's activists write telephone numbers on their arms with felt-tip pens, it is not a ‘powerful act of resistance’. It is a cynical game with a memory that does not belong to them. The pose is perfectly tailored to Instagram aesthetics, selfie-friendly, calculated for likes and retweets. And that is precisely where the scandal lies: the victims of the Shoah are degraded to props for staging one's own ‘commitment’.
The Jewish state, born from the ashes of the Shoah, is portrayed in the imagery of the perpetrators while the self-appointed activists imagine themselves in the role of disenfranchised victims. In this logic, the memory of the victims is not honoured, but shamelessly expropriated.

The activists on the flotilla wanted to stage a spectacle, they have exposed themselves. What remains is an image that says more about their contempt for history than they themselves are likely to realise.

x.com

What else must we endure from this circus flotilla?

rambot · 2025-10-04T09:56:29-0500

Hentenza said:
Right. In my opinion there are a lot more left leaning news sources and the other problem is, of course, the bias.

I don't see that.
https://app.adfontesmedia.com/chart/interactive?utm_source=adfontesmedia&utm_medium=website

Looks like smattering over the spectrum.

Hentenza · 2025-10-04T10:17:46-0500

rambot said:
I don't see that.
https://app.adfontesmedia.com/chart/interactive?utm_source=adfontesmedia&utm_medium=website

Looks like smattering over the spectrum.

Actually, according to the site you posted, other than Fox and WSJ most of the large mainstream media lands on the left side including Al Jazeera.

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-04T12:16:58-0500

The detention of a flotilla by the Israeli navy is enough to set Europe's streets ablaze.

In Madrid, thousands marched through the city carrying Palestinian flags, shouting ‘genocide’ and turning the demonstration into street battles.

Barcelona also experienced a dangerous mix: while hundreds gathered in the harbour to ‘defend’ the detained ships, others looted the city centre, smashed shop windows and attacked officials.

In Italy, a mass demonstration filled Milan's cathedral square, while Rome was paralysed by blockades.

Athens saw protest marches with oversized banners, and in Brussels, anger shifted directly to the European Parliament.

Particularly shocking: in Manchester, just one day after the brutal terrorist attack on a synagogue in which two Jews were murdered, hundreds marched for ‘Palestine.’ The fact that Jewish blood had just been shed did not prevent anyone from loudly questioning Israel's right to exist.

The protests have revealed an uncomfortable truth: while Israel defends its right to security, Europe responds with anger and violence. Hundreds of thousands can be mobilised when boats are intercepted yet the murders of Jews in Europe hardly provoke any outrage.

In 2007, following Hamas's seizure of power, Israel tightened its blockade of the Gaza Strip for security reasons, a move that is also supported by Egypt.

For Israel, it is clear that anyone who wants to circumvent security checks is not acting out of humanitarian concerns, but for political reasons. Especially in view of the threat posed by Hamas, any uncontrolled delivery to the Gaza Strip is a potential security risk. The flotilla was never neutral, it was a deliberate provocation aimed at pillorying Israel internationally.

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-04T12:34:30-0500

Spain recognises "Palestine", but the embassy remains in Israel: diplomats refuse to move to Ramallah with their families. Officially, it is a matter of security and quality of life, in reality, there is an unspoken admission behind it.

Several international media outlets unanimously report that the embassy opening has failed because Spanish representatives and their families are unwilling to leave the safe environment in Israel.

The reality cannot be glossed over: Ramallah is not simply an administrative centre for the "Palestinian" Authority. It is a city where violence, unrest and power struggles are part of everyday life. For diplomats, this means restricted freedom of movement, constant threats and no security or supply infrastructure comparable to that in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv. For families, it is unacceptable.

Norway has also already backtracked. Almost all countries that have recognised "Palestine" continue to maintain their embassies in Israel or operate only minimal offices in Ramallah, small, secure branch offices without families, without normal diplomatic residences. This is no coincidence, but rather an unspoken admission that it is a dangerous environment.

And this is precisely where the irony lies: Spain's government wants to make a name for itself on the international stage with grandiose decisions, but its own diplomats are refuting the political theatre. Because in the end, security is stronger than symbolic politics.

So anyone who talks about an "independent Palestine" today should be honest: a place that Western diplomats avoid is not ready for state normality. Prime minister of spain, Pedro Sánchez, may be playing power games with his policies, but his diplomats have long since spoken the truth by remaining silent in Israel.

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-04T13:09:19-0500

After almost two years of war, the terrorist organisation Hamas announces that it will release all Israeli hostages, dead or alive. In Washington, the announcement is celebrated as a diplomatic breakthrough, but in Jerusalem it is received with extreme caution. Because Israel's government knows that every supposed gesture by Hamas follows a strategic logic, never a moral insight.

There is no mention of surrendering weapons, no recognition of Israel, no guarantee of an end to terror. Instead, a Hamas representative describes the plan as ‘ambiguous’ and announces that they are ‘ready to negotiate the details.’ This is the terrorist organisation's well-known tactic: signalling agreement to gain time, not to take responsibility.

Members of the Israeli government warn of a ‘dangerous deception.’ Many relatives of the hostages also urge caution, warning against being lulled into a false sense of security by symbolic gestures from the terrorist organisation. They know that Hamas has broken agreements several times in the past, often immediately after ceasefires.

The historical context is omnipresent. Since Oct 7 2023, the day of the Hamas massacre, with over 1,200 Israelis murdered and 251 civilians kidnapped, there is no longer any trust in the word of the terrorists. Forty-seven people are still missing, at least 25 of whom are dead. Since then, Israeli society has learned that peace is not achieved through words, but through security.

In the end, the sobering truth remains: Trump wants results, Israel wants security, and Hamas wants to survive. There is no equation between these goals, only questions of power. The war may be coming to an end, but genuine peace depends on whether the international community finally understands that terrorism is not a legitimate negotiating partner.

Israel's patience has limits, as does Trump's ultimatum. The coming days will show whether Hamas is serious about peace or is simply preparing for the next round of war.

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-04T13:20:20-0500

Turkish authorities report the arrest of an alleged Mossad agent. The man, they say, was recruited for $4,000 in cryptocurrency to monitor a pro-Palestinian activist in Istanbul. When he failed, he was exposed.

At the same time, the Turkish public prosecutor's office announces proceedings against Israel: allegations range from “vehicle theft” to “kidnapping.” The reason: the Israeli naval operation against the “Global Sumud Flotilla.”

Erdogan's spokesman called Israel “modern Nazis.” This choice of words is no coincidence, but a calculated provocation that pursues two goals: mobilizing the Islamist base in his own country and delegitimizing Israel in Western media.

What Ankara is concealing: The “flotilla” was not a humanitarian mission, but a PR stunt deliberately designed to provoke confrontation on a Jewish holiday.

While Ankara criminalizes Israel, Mossad is delivering results in Europe: in Berlin, it uncovered a Hamas-affiliated cell that was planning attacks on Jews with assault rifles, pistols, and ammunition. Without Israeli intelligence work, this group would have remained undisturbed and might already have taken action.

That is the crucial contrast: Israel protects Jewish life, in Germany as well as in Austria. Erdogan, on the other hand, protects Hamas and uses every opportunity to pillory Israel internationally.

The fact that an alleged Mossad agent is now being presented as a “sensation” fits into the picture. Ankara wants to show that Hamas is not the problem, Israel is. This distortion is dangerous because it diverts international attention away from the real terrorist networks.

Instead of fighting Hamas structures in his own country, he is criminalizing the only state that protects Jews worldwide. Erdogan's propaganda shows that Ankara is by no means a mediator, but rather an accomplice.

Pommer · 2025-10-04T16:12:01-0500

Hentenza said:
Actually, according to the site you posted, other than Fox and WSJ most of the large mainstream media lands on the left side including Al Jazeera.

Views that aren’t as “popular” don’t have as many sources disseminating those views is evidence of…what, exactly?

Hentenza · 2025-10-04T16:39:37-0500

Pommer said:
Views that aren’t as “popular” don’t have as many sources disseminating those views is evidence of…what, exactly?

What views? No views were discussed here only the leaning.

Pommer · 2025-10-04T18:10:56-0500

Hentenza said:
What views? No views were discussed here only the leaning.

How does one characterize “leaning” without spelling out what views are under discussion?

Hentenza · 2025-10-04T18:40:04-0500

Pommer said:
How does one characterize “leaning” without spelling out what views are under discussion?

Go back and read the thread. You are missing something.,

Philip_B · 2025-10-04T22:43:19-0500

In fairness, Left and Right doesn't mean very much these days. It is better to stay on issues. It is a shame because I loose one of my favourite sayings - Oh they are so far right you have wait for sunset to see them!

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-05T01:51:06-0500

According to a report, activist Greta Thunberg claims, she is suffering from the conditions of her detention in Israel. Too little water, too little food and bedbugs.

She was probably thought to be accommodated in Ashdod Luxe Escape Spacious Apartment. The spacious apartment has 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, bed linen, towels, a television, a dining area, a fully equipped kitchen and a terrace with a view of the city.

I hope she learns from this not to approach a sea area claimed by Israel again. And the other participants in Hamas-funded and supported terror boats of a flotilla allegedly heading for Gaza should do the same and turn back.

The Israeli Embassy stated that the allegations were ‘complete lies.’ ‘All prisoners of the Hamas Sumud provocation were given access to water, food and toilets. They were not denied access to legal counsel, and all their rights, including access to medical care, were fully upheld.’

Vanellus · 2025-10-05T03:18:07-0500

From the Law of the Sea
https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf
57
PART VII
HIGH SEAS
SECTION 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS
Article 86
Application of the provisions of this Part
The provisions of this Part apply to all parts of the sea that are not
included in the exclusive economic zone, in the territorial sea or in the
internal waters of a State, or in the archipelagic waters of an archipelagic
State. This article does not entail any abridgement of the freedoms enjoyed
by all States in the exclusive economic zone in accordance with article 58.
Article 87
Freedom of the high seas
1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked.
Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this
Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia,
both for coastal and land-locked States:
(a) freedom of navigation;
(b) freedom of overflight;
(c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to
Part VI;
(d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations
permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
(e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in
section 2;
(f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII.
2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for
the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas,
and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to
activities in the Area,

The flotilla did not prevent the free use of the high seas by Israel.

What laws does Israel violate by intercepting the Gaza Sumud flotilla?

What are the conventions that Israel is breaking?
The Freedom Flotilla Coalition maintained that its mission is lawful and that it aims to deliver aid. In addition to that, it is protected by the following international legal instruments:

The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) – Guarantees freedom of navigation on the high seas

San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea – Prohibits blockades that cause starvation or disproportionate suffering and forbids the targeting of neutral humanitarian missions

UN Security Council Resolutions 2720 and 2728 – These binding instruments demand unimpeded humanitarian access and the removal of all barriers to aid delivery

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide – Includes the prevention of acts deliberately endangering civilians

Fourth Geneva Convention – Imposes an obligation to permit the free passage of humanitarian aid and prohibit interference with relief operations and the targeting of civilian infrastructure

Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court – Criminalises the starvation of civilians as a method of warfare and willful obstruction of humanitarian aid.

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-05T05:07:27-0500

Vanellus said:
The Freedom Flotilla Coalition maintained that its mission is lawful and that it aims to deliver aid.

The Flotilla did not provide any assistance whatsoever, to whom? Instead, the Flotilla supporters lied to the global public. The only ones they have served are the terrorist organisation Hamas.

"The flotilla causes disruption and brings no benefit to Gaza",

recognised Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni.

"I find it cheap and irresponsible to put one's own life at risk. Italian government agencies could bring aid to Gaza in a matter of hours";

Humanitarian aid must be allowed through in situations such as this. However, this exception only applies to ships whose primary purpose is to deliver aid supplies and not to protest or draw the international community's attention to a war situation.

However, it was like this, that the more than forty ships that were intercepted were not carrying any aid supplies

The aid consists of baby milk, medicine and essential food. They putting the humanitarian aid in plastic bottles and throwing it overboard, This is the way, they will save Gaza from hunger.

The flotilla had rejected Israel's offer to bring its aid supplies ashore at ports outside the Gaza Strip, so that they could be transported on to the Palestinian coastal area, because it is not interested in providing aid, but in provocation.

Greta Thunberg used to be a climate activist, now she is an anti-Semite, a supporter of terrorism, whatever you want to call it. Now she is facing deportation by Israel after being picked up by the Israeli navy in her curious little boat, and this is probably the final downfall of a former so-called ‘icon’.

One only has to remember what a fall from grace this is when one considers that a German church leader compared her to Jesus entering Jerusalem on a donkey. In other words, endless adoration for a fanatic whom many people used to believe in. Now we see her fanatical face; she is a terrible anti-Semite, and I believe that is the end of her career.

Greta and the other Hamas-funded flotilla supporters should be charged for the costs of the Israeli navy's operation. She must also pay for her own deportation flight.

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-05T05:18:15-0500

Among the participants in Thunberg's fleet were several open supporters of Hamas and Hezbollah.

Greta Thunbewrg did not complain to the Israeli authorities about her ridiculous and unfounded accusations regarding prison conditions because they never happened. She complained about ‘inhumane conditions’ during her first sailing trip to Israel (June) and was annoyed by this photo, which seems to contradict her claims

That is why there are now fierce accusations against the Jewish state.

Does she want to stay in Israel longer?

According to Israeli government sources, Greta insisted on serving her entire sentence, 96 hours from arrival, in accordance with Israeli law, in Israel before being deported. In addition, the Swedish woman is said to have refused to board an Israeli aircraft, even though she was offered this option several times.

Benaiah468 · 2025-10-05T05:21:26-0500

When you listen to Greta Thunberg talking about Israel, you have to consider her the bravest person on earth.

She voluntarily puts herself in the hands of an army that is bloodthirstily committing genocide, indiscriminately murdering women and children, and guilty of every crime imaginable in the dark history of the world.

The only problem with Greta's story is that she herself knows that her propaganda about Israel is not true. Otherwise, she would never have sailed to Gaza with her Hamas and Hezbollah friends.

That is why Greta and Co. do not sail or travel to Russia. Not to Yemen. Not to Afghanistan. Not to Iran. And not to North Korea. In other words, not to any of the regimes to which her accusations against Israel would actually apply.

Because Greta knows that under these regimes, the best-case scenario is years in prison, and the worst-case scenario is torture and death.

In Israel, on the other hand, there's a sandwich, a bottle of sparkling water and a plane ticket home.

If anti-Israel Greta fans weren't so obsessed with the Jewish state, they would have to admit that their icon's story doesn't hold water. That she is not a martyr because she risked absolutely nothing. That the flotilla operation does not expose Israel, but only refutes Greta's propaganda.

In the anti-Semitic social media bubble, Israel is of course still seen as the big loser, no matter what it does.

The real losers are the civilians of Gaza and the Israeli hostages, whom Greta does not care about. While Israelis and "Palestinians" hope that Hamas will agree to the American peace plan and end the Gaza war, Greta is once again distracting attention from the terrorists. She could not be doing them a bigger favour at such a crucial stage.

Israel-Hamas Thread II

act from love, not fear

MOD HAT ON​

This thread has had a cleanup to remove some unnecessary flaming and goading. ​

MOD HAT OFF​

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

I will fear no evil for You are with me

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Bread is Blessed & Broken Wine is Blessed & Poured

Well-Known Member

Newbie

What are the conventions that Israel is breaking?​

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

MOD HAT ON

This thread has had a cleanup to remove some unnecessary flaming and goading.

MOD HAT OFF

What are the conventions that Israel is breaking?