Have you understood this?

keras said:

I posted a viable refutation.

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Sorry, you did not address any of the verses I posted in #28.
You used the same verse Rev 21:4 over again that I replied to
already, and you said nothing about new scriptures I posted.

keras said:

Jesus was the First fruit. He was raised to immortality and sits at the right hand of God now.

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True, the bible also says in 1 Corinthians 15
...But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's [at his coming]...

Are you saying Christ returns twice?
-

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be [clothed upon] with our house
which is [from] heaven: 2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

-We want that clothing that is from heaven. what clothing? our house?

keras said:

Some of the many Prophesies about the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lord wrath, do say the Lord is coming in wrath, Isaiah 66:15-17, for example.
But we know He sends His fiery wrath, Psalms 11:4-6 , Habakkuk 3:4, +

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So Jesus Christ returns physically to earth only once, check.
This is how the great tribulation [will start], also called Jacob's Trouble.

6For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation,
which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess
the dwellingplaces that are not their's.

The Prophet Habakkuk wrote about nuclear winter. He discussed a “bitter
and hasty nation” attacking Israel. The people are treated like fish in a net.

God sends [a nation] to punish sinful nations of Israel. The G.T. has not started yet.
The terrible Day/year of the Lord's wrath against all mankind starts
after the heavenly signs, and after the Great Tribulation.

keras said:

Only at the glorious Return, will everyone see Him coming.

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As the resurrected Christ ascended to heaven in clouds, so He shall return to Earth
in clouds (Acts 1:9-11; Matthew 24:30). Just as He is returning (1Thes 4:14-17),

the dead in Christ—those who have received and been led by God’s Holy Spirit
(Romans 8:11, 14), will rise in a gigantic resurrection, made immortal—including
all the prophets of old (Luke 13:28). Those who have the Spirit of God, then living,
shall be instantaneously changed from mortal to immortal (1?Corinthians 15:50-54)

and, together with those resurrected, shall rise to meet the descending glorified Christ
(1 Thessalonians 4:17) in the clouds in the air. They shall be with Him, where He is,
forever (John 14:3). They shall—with Him—come down out of the clouds, and stand
with Him, therefore, that very same day, on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5).

And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole
heaven [not in heaven], shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High ”
Daniel 2:44, Daniel 7:18 , Daniel 7:22 , Daniel 7:27 , Revelation 11:15

Semper-Fi said:
We want that clothing that is from heaven. what clothing? our house?

keras said:

Paul is talking about Spiritual clothing.

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Paul is talking about a new body, that we will be [clothed with immortality].
Earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with [our house] which is from heaven.

2Co 5:1-3 For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle
be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with
hands, eternal, in the heavens.

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be [clothed upon] with our house
which is [from] heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

-Paul uses the tabernacle to represent our earthly house/body which will be
dissolved/being mortal, but we have a building form God a house not made
with hands, eternal/immortal, in the heavens.

why is Paul saying this? The context from the prior chapter will help:

2Co 4:16 Wherefore we faint not; but though our outward man is decaying,
yet our inward man is renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is for
the moment, worketh for us more and more exceedingly an eternal weight of glory;

while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen:
for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal."

-Our outward man/tabernacle/body is decaying it is mortal but we have faith
in the things that are eternal. What is this in relation to? when will this be?

2Co 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus
shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you."

-So Paul faints not because of the Grace God gives and the promise that
this corrupt outward mortal man will be raised to eternal life just as Jesus was.

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be [clothed upon] with our house
which is [from] heaven: 2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

-We want that clothing that is from heaven. what clothing?

2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that
we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

-mortality might put on life or [clothed with immortality] in other words, our new House.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;
it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be
changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet
shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on
immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and
this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass
the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

-This all takes place at the last trump at the coming of Christ. when our
mortal bodies are clothed in immortality, changed in the twinkling of an eye.

At the seventh and Last Trump

Revelation 11:15 (KJV)
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,
and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 8:6, Revelation 10:7, 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16

There are no "trumphet blasts" recorded being at the Great White Throne Judgement.

keras said:

White robes of righteousness.

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The washing of robes signifies the cleansing of one's life through the
redemptive work of Jesus Christ. Revelation 19:7- Revelation 22:12

"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage
of the Lamb is come, and [his wife hath made herself ready].

"And, behold, I come quickly; and [my reward is with me],
to give every man according as his work shall be."

Believers’ eternal destiny is secure in Jesus (Ephesians 1:13–14). Believers
will receive rewards according to how faithfully they served Christ.
(Luke 19:12–27; 1 Corinthians 3:12–15).

Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2) and our faith in Him (John 3:16).
All our sins are forgiven, and there is “no condemnation for those who are
in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1).

Jesus said, “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him
who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over
from death to life” (John 5:24).

Christ said I will come again, and my reward is with me.
White robes of righteousness are given to the church saints when He Returns.

No White robes are recorded being given at the Great White Throne Judgement.

keras said:

How can our belief on the Millenium vary at all? The Bible sets it our straightforwardly; Jesus Returns, then reigns for the next thousand years. Then comes the end of Gods 7000 year Plan for mankind and then; Eternity. THEN, whoever remains, will be Spiritual beings.

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Surely you have heard of premillennialists, postmillennialists and amillennialists. Genuine believers in the Lord Jesus Christ have different understandings of the millennium.

keras said:

The GT martyrs, Rev 20:4-6, will be raised to mortal life, as Lazarus was.

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They are raised-up mortal, reign with Christ on thrones, and live
[as mortal] for a thousand years, and the second death has no power ?

I do not remember Lazarus [or others before him] living 1000 years.

John [saw] in the vision thrones, with persons sitting on them,
and judgment was given unto them: -but without intreating
who they were that sat on them. -And John also saw ...

And I saw thrones — Such as were promised to the apostles,
Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:29-30; and they — Namely, the saints,
whom John saw at the same time; sat upon them, and judgment
was given to them — 1 Corinthians 6:2.

"until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of
the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;
He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

"But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end,
to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall rule them
with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken
to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Revelation 2:25-27

28And I will give him the morning star. 29He that hath an ear,
let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?"

When do the saints judge the world, [after] The GWT judgement?

keras said:

They will die a natural second death,

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So they [will not live and reign for 1000 years with Christ] like the verse says?

The Great White Throne Judgment is for unbelievers and determines eternal
punishment, while the Bema Seat (Judgment Seat of Christ) is for believers
who's been given The Holy Spirit, and evaluates [their use of] for rewards.

Jesus said, “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him
who sent me has eternal life [and will not be judged] but has crossed over
from death to life” (John 5:24).

Nothing says those at the GWTJ resurrection cannot be immortal already.
It says no more death ever, it is mentioned elsewhere about our
quickened mortal bodies in the 1st resurrection.

[Why are we first fruits] if we are given our rewards with everyone else.

Jesus says our rewards are with Him, When He returns with our house.

keras said:

Careful study of Revelation 20:4, -interlinear and many versions, shows that those martyrs who Jesus will resurrect; do not necessarily reign with Christ for the full thousand years.

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False, the bible says [they live] and reigned with Christ [a thousand years.]

keras said:

Proved by verse 5-6, where their second death during the Millennium is stated.

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False, the bible does not say they died the second death in the millennium.
The bible says the second death would not hert them, the reason is they
are immortal already, and are not even at the second resurrection.

The second death will not hert the church also, not just the tribulation martyrs.
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;
He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

Scripture should not contradict scripture. I have given you over a dozen
scriptures that contradict your translation/view of what happens at the GWTJ.

keras said:

Our rewards, given when He Returns, are positions of authority and blessings in the Millennium Kingdom.

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Your false view of the Millennium is: only those saints alive who survive the Great
tribulation are with Christ, and all other saints for the past 6 thousand years
that died beforehand are S.O.L , and are not even in the Millennium Kingdom.

keras said:

The GWT Judgment is for [everyone who has ever lived]. Revelation 20:12-13

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The GWT Judgment is for those that are dead, and are raised at the second resurrection.
[What it does not say] is everyone that ever lived is in this second resurrection.

keras said:

the Book of Life is opened, after the Millennium

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"and the books were opened: and another
book was opened, which is the book of life: "

What are the "Books" that was opened before the book of life?
There is also a book of remembrance besides above.