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Might the Laws of God actually change on the New Earth?

BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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As I said, sin is of the devil, no doubt, but its a matter of who is bigger in our life.
The point being, when anyone claims they are for example, legally obedient, that can not logically encompass the evil present in the form of the adversary, and therefore exactly no one other than God Himself in the flesh was ever "legally obedient." Lying hypocrites, yes. But legally obedient? Never.

We are all in a perpetual state of sin, never sinless and that is in fact courtesy of the adversary. Which no legalist ever factors into their claims.
The devil or God. I believe our God is bigger to keep us from sin, than the devil is to keep us in sin. Its all about choices.
Sins are not counted against people to begin with, 2 Cor. 5:19

Sins are and will continue to be counted against the devil and his messengers.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The point being, when anyone claims they are for example, legally obedient, that can not logically encompass the evil present in the form of the adversary, and therefore exactly no one other than God Himself in the flesh was ever "legally obedient." Lying hypocrites, yes. But legally obedient? Never.

We are all in a perpetual state of sin, never sinless and that is in fact courtesy of the adversary. Which no legalist ever factors into their claims.

Sins are not counted against people to begin with, 2 Cor. 5:19

Sins are and will continue to be counted against the devil and his messengers.
The Bible teaches something different that there is a people who overcomes Rev 2:7,11,17,26 Rev 3:5, 12, 21, Rev 21:7 Rev 22:14, Rev 14:12 etc and sin is counted against us, unless we confess and turn from sin. Pro 28:13 1 John 1:9

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Mat 7:23 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
1Jn 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Whoever is teaching that we are saved in our sins and sins aren't counted against us without turning to Jesus, repenting and forsaking is not doing anyone any favors, sadly. Why would anyone want to continue in sins Rom 6:1-4, if we have Jesus, considering what our sins did to Him at the Cross.

We will probably just have to agree to disagree
 
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ViaCrucis

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Half siblings.

It's only when you want to put a doctrine before what the bible says (IE Mary's perpetual virginity) that you get something like "oh they're not blood related" or "oh they're 2nd cousins" John the Baptist was Jesus' cousin and he is not referred to by the onlookers as Jesus' "brother" but James is.

a plain reading, after having read the first couple chapters of Matthew, would indicate that they'd be half siblings, having Mary as their mother and Joseph as their Father while Jesus had Mary as His mother and the Holy Spirit as His Father.

If you don't take extrabiblical teachings/doctrines into play, that is the conclusion you come to. Forcing a doctrine into the bible is probably not the best way to go.

Except that you are the one forcing your beliefs onto the Bible. I'm not forcing anything, did you not pay attention to the fact that I said I don't know?

My position is I don't know. Because the Bible doesn't say.

The only person here imposing their beliefs onto the Bible here is you.

Scripture doesn't say they were half-siblings. That's you saying that.

A plain reading says that while Mary was pregnant, she and Joseph weren't intimate. It says nothing about what happened after. You have to add your own assumptions to get anything more than that.

A plain reading says that Jesus had siblings, but does not tell us the precise relationship between Jesus and His siblings. Were they half siblings? Maybe. Were they step-siblings? Maybe. Were they cousins? Maybe.

The Greek word is ambiguous. And we know it is, because it even calls Christians "brothers" even though we are not (necessarily) biologically related, even though this includes both men and women. We are brothers, in Christ, because of our adoption by the Father. When we are called "brothers" it does not mean we are blood-related, it means our union together into the Household of God the Father through His only-begotten Son.

An adelphos, a brother, can be a full sibling, it can be a half-sibling, it can be a step-sibling, it can be figurative (close friends can be called "brothers"), it has a range of meanings. This is obvious from how the word itself is used; and this isn't weird because we do the same thing with the English word "brother". So this isn't even a foreign concept, it's one we are all familiar with.

The question, fundamentally, is who precisely were Jesus' brothers and sisters, were they the children of Mary and Joseph? Maybe. But the text doesn't tell us this.

And we can't just ignore ancient opinions of the Church as though they don't matter at all. Those same ancient opinions are, for example, why we call the Gospel of Matthew the Gospel of Matthew. It's why we have a New Testament at all. So rejecting, as a matter of principle, all extra-biblical information is not piety, it's foolishness. Instead such things should be measured, considered, tested; not assumed but given adequate weight based on merit.

If you want to do away with all extra-biblical information and context then you have to throw your whole Bible away. And that's clearly not something anyone wants to do, so take a more full measured and consistent approach and study, and be humble, and weigh things.

You are free to reach your opinion that that they were half-siblings. You are not free to claim, dogmatically, that they are; because you do not have the authority to add to God's word.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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There is nothing in the NC about mixing fabrics,

Or observing the Sabbath.

But that doesn't stop you from imposing your sectarian man-made traditions as though they were divinely sanctioned dogma on everyone.

So when you take the WHOLE of God's Law seriously, then get back to me about the Sabbath. Until then you're jus being hypocritical. who wants to force your sects peculiar teachings onto God's Church. As far as I'm concerned, your sect's founder's beliefs about the Sabbath are of the same value as my pocket lint. I stand on the word of God, not the words of Ellen White. And God's word says nothing about Christians observing the Sabbath, in fact it says the opposite: Those who insist on one day over another are engaging in rebellious sinful behavior and violating the conscience and liberty of the Faithful. So take your Sabbatarian claptrap and send it right back to hell where it came from.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Or observing the Sabbath.
I am not sure if you missed the Scriptures I posted in my post but it literally say in the NT that Sabbath keeping (observing) remains for the people of God. And we see this in the life of Jesus and the apostles keeping faithfully every Sabbath. Luke 4:16 Mat 12:12 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 Acts 16:13 Acts 17:2 Acts 15:21 etc.


Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning:
a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
But that doesn't stop you from imposing your sectarian man-made traditions as though they were divinely sanctioned dogma on everyone.

So when you take the WHOLE of God's Law seriously, then get back to me about the Sabbath. Until then you're jus being hypocritical.
Already addressed. Do you keep the commandment to not murder thy neighbor in the commandments of God. Do you not mix fabrics from the law of Moses? Where does it say not to do so in the NT? Please show me where not mixing fabrics is in the Ten Commandments. There is a law that not a jot or tittle will pass Mat 5:18-19, God’s own Testimony- His covenant He promises not to alter His words Psa 89:34 as its shown in the ark of God’s covenant in heaven Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19 where His word is settled Psa 119:89 written personally not by a human-being but divinely by the God of the Universe. The law of Moses, written by man on paper as it fades placed outside the ark as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 and was added until the Seed. Gal 3:19. Sin in the NC is still transgressing God’s commandments 1 John 3:4 James 2:11 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15.
who wants to force your sects peculiar teachings onto God's Church.
I am not asking you to believe me, I am suggesting we should believe God. The Ten Commandments is God's own Testimony, written personally by God. Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 not just once, but twice. If we can't believe His own Testimony, not sure the point of Scripture as that's what its about, the testimony of Jesus Christ though His prophets and apostles. How do we believe their testimony but not God’s own Testimony? In God’s church, His saints keep His commandments- His version, not mans. Rev 14:12. Even the apostles taught we ought to obey God over man.
As far as I'm concerned, your sect's founder's beliefs about the Sabbath are of the same value as my pocket lint. I stand on the word of God, not the words of Ellen White. And God's word says nothing about Christians observing the Sabbath, in fact it says the opposite: Those who insist on one day over another are engaging in rebellious sinful behavior and violating the conscience and liberty of the Faithful. So take your Sabbatarian claptrap and send it right back to hell where it came from.

-CryptoLutheran
I see why you pointed to EGW, most people do when they don't have a biblical argument regarding the Sabbath. Ellen White never gave the commandment to keep the Sabbath day holy, God did Exo 20:8-11 written by God, spoken by God on His authority, no different than the commandment to only worship Him or not murder our neighbor, breaking one we break them all James 2:11. She just points us back to what God said, when He asked us to Remember, its probably not something we should forget.

We all have free will to obey God and His commandments or follow the popular traditions of man. Jesus speaks of this exact scenario quoting from the same unit of Ten and warns us where the path leads that follows man. Mat 15:3-19 Mark 7:7-13. Sounds like your mind is settled on this matter, so I wish you well.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.
 
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FreeinChrist

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ADVISOR HAT


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This thread had a clean up of posts that conflict with the site Statement of Faith. Non-Trinitarianism and gnosticism is not allowed.
 
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Jan001

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But the Law did pass away as written in. Acts 28:25-28 and so does the book of Hebrews !!

dan p
The letter of the law (Law of Moses) passed away after Jesus died on the cross. The spirit of the law (Christ's Law) will always be in effect.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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The letter of the law (Law of Moses) passed away after Jesus died on the cross. The spirit of the law (Christ's Law) will always be in effect.
Uh, no. The laws are and remain fully against all evil within mankind, period.

Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

Those who conspire to toss away the entirety or even part of the O.T. don't have a clue of what they talking about

We also know the scriptures, all of them, speak of Jesus. Do we then toss out what speaks of Jesus? Again, firmly, never. Not as believers.

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Jesus WROTE the scriptures through the law and the prophets. Everywhere we read a RED LETTER statement of God it is in fact a statement of the Living Word, Jesus


1 Peter 1:10-11
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

I would readily concede that it's difficult to get there, but tossing or elimination is NEVER a legitimate option. Those who teach such things should not be listened to as they have no idea what they are doing
 
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