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On not paying God ill-judged "metaphysical compliments"

dms1972

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Ok the thread title is a bit of mouthful. But it refers to a something Professor A. N. Whitehead said, and a passage in CS Lewis's book Miracles.

I think CS Lewis would not necessarily agree with everything Prof. Whitehead wrote, nor with the Process Theology that takes some insights from Whitehead. I was interested in Whitehead and his thought at one point in my intellectual journey, but then I started to read Lewis.

In the following passage Lewis articulates his understanding of the difference between Theism and Pantheism.

"Probably no thinking person would, in so many words deny that God is concrete and individual. But not all thinking people, and certainly not all who believe in "religion" keep this truth steadily before their minds. We must beware, as Prof. Whitehead says, of paying God ill-judged "metaphysical compliments." We say that God is "infinite." In the sense that His knowledge and power extend not to some things but to all, this is true . But if by using the word "infinite" we encourage ourselves to think of Him as a formless "everything" about whom nothing in particular and everything in general is true, then it would be better to drop that word altogether. Let us dare to say that God is a particular Thing. Once He was the only Thing: but He is creative, He made other things to be. He is not those other things. He is not "universal being": if He were there would be no creatures, for a generality can make nothing. He is "absolute being" - or rather the Absolute Being - in the sense that He alone exists in His own right. But there are things which God is not. In that sense He has a determinate character. Thus He is righteous, not a-moral; creative, not inert. The Hebrews writings here observe an admirable balance. Once God says simply I AM, proclaiming the mystery of self-existence. But times without number He says, "I am the Lord" - I, the ultimate Fact, have this determinate character, and not that. And men are exhorted to "know the Lord," to discover and experience this particular character."

"The error which I am here trying to correct is one of the most sincere and respectable errors in the world; I have sympathy enough with it to feel shocked at the language I have been driven to use in stating the opposite view, which I believe to be the true one. To say that God "is a particular Thing" does seem to obliterate the immeasurable difference not only between what He is and what all other things are but between the very mode of His existence and theirs. I must at once restore the balance by insisting the derivative things, from atoms to archangels, hardly attain to existence at all in comparison with their Creator. Their principle of existence is not in themselves. You can distinguish what they are from the fact that they are. The definition of them can be understood and a clear idea of them formed without even knowing whether they are. Existence is an "opaque" addition to the idea of them. But with God it is not so: if we fully understood what God is we should see that there is no question whether He is. It would always have been impossible that He should not exist. He is the opaque centre of all existences, the thing that simply and entirely is, the fountain of facthood. And yet, now that He has created, there is a sense in which we must say that He is particular Thing and even one Thing among others. To say this is not to lessen the immeasurable difference between Him and them. On the contrary, it is to recognise in Him a positive perfection which Pantheism has obscured; the perfection of being creative. He is so brim-full of existence that He can give existence away, can cause things to be, and to be really other than Himself, can make it untrue to say that He is everything."

Quote from the CS Lewis book : Miracles - Chapter: Christianity and "Religion" (italics in original)


I've known some christians to eventually react against elements of the Biblical-Classical Synthesis, only to then embrace the Biblical-Modern Synthesis. I suspect the latter is not so uncommon in Emergent Church circles.

But I think CS Lewis here has managed to masterfully distinguish Theism from Pantheism without going down the Process Theology path.
 
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dms1972

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Process Theism, tends toward either atheism on the one hand or pantheism on the other. I think there were questions in regard to the classical-biblical synthesis that lead to process theism becoming an option, for instance does God have emotions?

In scripture we are told to not grieve the Holy Spirit, which suggests God can experience grief. The Lord when he saw man's wickedness was grieved (Genesis 6) But clearly we need to be careful in how we attribute emotional responses to Deity.

Process theism can be faulted for having too low a view of God, Classical Theism (ie philosophical theism) if its not corrected by Biblical revelation could lead one to conceive of God as a sort of static absolute.
 
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com7fy8

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Here is a quote by dms of C.S. Lewis >
Once God says simply I AM, proclaiming the mystery of self-existence.
I agree that God exists on His own. And I find it to be quite a marvelous wonder, how we have any being, at all, in existence . . . versus there being "nothing". And we have conscious existing beings. And God is so absolutely beautifully wonderful in love and goodness and kindness and mercy and being ***personal*** and sharing and caring in His family way as Persons of love > Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And He can not change from this, because He is almighty in His character so there is no lesser being which can change Him.

So . . . for ones who claim that God is "everything" > no, He is not the evil stuff and the selfish and psychopathic people. And God is not the human sorts of love which can give in to fear and anger and hurting people and being unforgiving. God is almighty and the only really right love in existence; so why would anyone make the claim that He is the inferior stuff we see in this evil world? That would be like to saying that cruelty is part of love.

But, of course, in human selfish loving there can be the nicer feelings, but then the arguing and other abuse, which worldly ones could consider to be included in their ways of loving.

But God is n-o-t "inclusive", like this!!!

Worldly sorts of love can have dominating and dictatorial drives for pleasure > ones can in reality be in love with the feelings of pleasure which they treasure. But Jesus is "gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29)

So . . . in God . . . in His love and His way of loving . . . we have "rest for your souls". And this love has gentle and humble emotions and feelings . . . in Jesus.

But in human corrupt love, yes there are various nasty and negative things emotional and in thinking. And so, we are commanded to get rid of that cruel and abusive stuff and get into how Jesus in us has us loving >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

"Do all things without complaining and disputing," (Philippians 2:14)

God in His love is stable, not giving in to nasty and negative stuff which can get the better of humans in worldly loving. So . . . "therefore" . . . God who "is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16) is not everything in existence. And He is not the only love that there is, but He is the only right love with stability of almighty immunity against fear and anger and unforgiveness and lingering hurts; and only in Jesus do we have real intimacy which is personal . . . while worldly loving really can be only feelings of intimacy with the pleasures that humans desire to feel.

Intimacy with God is personal. However worldly love can be intimacy only with feelings of pleasure, not really caring for ones people use to get their pleasure. And so . . . again . . . there is stuff which is not God, which humans can get intimate with. God is not everything. And the so-called "love" of human intimacy can be corrupted by cruel and horrible emotions and feelings; so their unstable stuff is not God.
 
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stevevw

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I don't think we can ever seperate ourselves from Gods creation and whatever it is that flows from that for which we are part of. You can't seperate it into objective facts and subjective experiences and beliefs. Its just experiences and perceptions we humans have that comes nowhere near fully encapsulating the whole.

Thats why its so easy to conflate certain aspects or ontologies we as humans can percieve as being the whole reality.

One thing I believe is that if God is the God of all we experience and percieve is that though incomprehensible Gods DNA or imprint whatever you want to call it goes all the way down to the micro level and we should not be surprised that we find something beyond the material ontologies which are often claimed as the only fundemental reality.

But being able to come up with knockdown evidence for this will never happen. Thats why I think to fully understand reality requires at least an openness to the spiritual and transcedent.

The bible says some look but do not see this evidence. So its obvious not in the realm of empiricle science.

While I agree at the same time any particular idea falls short even alternative transcedent ontologies as they are only grasping at Gods aspect of reality that is incomprehensibe.

While at the same time I don't dismiss alternative spiritual ideas out of hand because they do show that humans are natural theists in one way or another. Its just a matter of which and on that I think this is where it ventures into faith. Though I think we can destinguish some spiritual aspects that align with rationality while others don't.

Even the basic idea that there can be many fundemental ontologies or true beliefs at the same time. The very nature of God points to one fundemental ontology and truth. Or that some beliefs actually breach their own status in defying commonsense morals or reality.
 
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