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Might the Laws of God actually change on the New Earth?

BelieveItOarKnot

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I do not know the specific means by which Joseph's genetics was obtained by angels, but it is clear that something extraordinary happened to bring about the conception of Mary.
I'd consider those 2 separate and not necessarily connected statements. Joseph's DNA alteration is nowhere to be found other than imaginations.

We do know a virgin conceived, which rules out Joseph
 
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Jamdoc

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We aren't commanded to love devils Joe. People are not devils. Pretty simple observation.

Guess who is a devil? The devil
but it's a an orthodox doctrine that believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit and cannot be possessed by devils.
In that case, Christians still do sin, even Paul wrote about it in Romans 7, a conflict.

What then? It's not a demonic possession, it's the old natural self waging war against a new creation of the Holy Spirit.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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but it's a an orthodox doctrine that believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit and cannot be possessed by devils.
One does not have to be "possessed" to be tempted internally, which places the tempter where?

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Paul had a devil in his own flesh, temptation. It's not viewed as possession. 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:14
What then? It's not a demonic possession, it's the old natural self
That's the accuser of the brethren's methodology. Blame anyone and anything BUT the devil

Man is the hiding places of devils
 
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Jamdoc

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One does not have to be "possessed" to be tempted internally, which places the tempter where?

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Paul had a devil in his own flesh, temptation. It's not viewed as possession. 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:14

That's the accuser of the brethren's methodology. Blame anyone and anything BUT the devil

Man is the hiding places of devils
There is personal responsibility involved too, angels are tempters but we make the decision.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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There is personal responsibility involved too, angels are tempters but we make the decision.
No one stops devils from sinning via their decisions because they are not the decision makers for those entities
 
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Jamdoc

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No one stops devils from sinning via their decisions because they are not the decision makers for those entities
a devil is outside, not inside, as someone who battles them, I always know it's outside trying to whisper in.

but when I sin? I made that decision. It's soemthing I have to repent of.

In your doctrine you never need to go for grace because "you" didn't do anything, someone else did it against your will.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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a devil is outside, not inside
You'd like to think so, but no, temptation via the forms of evil thoughts does transpire within and defiles us all, in our thoughts/minds and it is demonic, i.e. of the tempter. Even moreso in fact after salvation. That is in fact where the "battles" take place. Internally.
In your doctrine you never need to go for grace because "you" didn't do anything, someone else did it against your will.
That is in fact exactly what happens. Your will never justified the tempter in you, ever. No matter how good you think you are isolated from the fact. I think such believers just fell asleep at the wheel and forgot from whom they were divided from.

For the record we can still be believers, fully justified, even in the midst of this present darkness because "we" are not "them."

I also do not believe repentance makes anyone sinless. You?
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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Repentance does not remove sin(s).
Brilliant deduction. Neither do right or moral decisions or acts remove sin. Dominate? Yes. Cover? Yes. But eliminate? NOPE
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Repentance does not remove sin(s).
This is what the Bible teaches

Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

G1813
ἐξαλείφω
exaleiphō
ex-al-i'-fo
From G1537 and G218; to smear out, that is, obliterate (erase tears, figuratively pardon sin): - blot out, wipe away.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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This is what the Bible teaches

Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

G1813
ἐξαλείφω
exaleiphō
ex-al-i'-fo
From G1537 and G218; to smear out, that is, obliterate (erase tears, figuratively pardon sin): - blot out, wipe away.
IF sin were only of the person, you'd have a point.

But we all know sin is in fact "of the devil," Mark 4;15, 1 John 3:8

So when we try to cover the entirety of ourselves, we're really just being pawned by our adversary, to "forgive the devil" as well.

It just don't work. But we can get fat, dumb and happy in those phony shoes
 
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SabbathBlessings

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IF sin were only of the person, you'd have a point.
Its not my point its Scripture
But we all know sin is in fact "of the devil," Mark 4;15, 1 John 3:8

So when we try to cover the entirety of ourselves, we're really just being pawned by our adversary, to "forgive the devil" as well.

It just don't work. But we can get fat, dumb and happy in those phony shoes
Sin is of the person, under the influence of the devil. Its all a matter of who we are submitting ourselves to and serving. Many serve the devil, some without realizing because they like their sins more than they love Jesus to ask His help in forsaking them. Many refuse to allow God to define sin 1 John3:4 and righteousness Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-2, so they cover their sins and stay in darkness.

Pro 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

1 John 1: 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Its all about choices, whoever we obey is who we serve

Jos 24:15 15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of [a]the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 
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ViaCrucis

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do not know the specific means by which Joseph's genetics was obtained by angels, but it is clear that something extraordinary happened to bring about the conception of Mary. The explanation I have given does not contradict any of the facts in the biblical account yet explains why Joseph's genealogy is given by Matthew. Genealogy implies what we understand to be genetic descent. It should also be noted that there is rather substantial appearance of angels in the context of Mary's conception. One appears to her beforehand and although that conversation is abbreviated and also somewhat obscure in meaning, it would not be unexpected that some explanation by the angel to Mary would be given about her anticipated conception.

The Scripture says, plainly, the the Blessed Virgin Mary Theotokos conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit--not the power or work of angels, and has nothing to do with St. Joseph.

The genealogical accounts in Matthew and Luke aren't about genetics. Jesus was Joseph's legal son, not biological--which is just as valid for genealogy in the ancient world as blood-descent. Jesus does not need to be genetically/biologically related to Joseph for Jesus to be legally part of Joseph's lineage.

Jesus is the literal blood offspring of Mary, she is His true mother. Genetics can't tell us anything about this miracle, since genetically we know that an ordinary male human has an X chromosome from the mother and a Y chromosome from the father--but Jesus only has a biological mother. Which means the question of Jesus' Y chromosome is without answer. Which is fine, Scripture isn't giving us a lesson on genetics and biology--but teaching us that our Lord Jesus Christ was conceived and born of the Virgin Mary, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Since it is a profound act of God, and God can, in His absolute power, do anything that does not violate His own will and Being, anything we add is idle speculation--God had done great things. Behold, in the City of David is born a Child, the Lord Messiah.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Where does Scripture say we can pluck out one of the commandments, part of the words of the covenant that God Himself wrote Exo 31:18 and claim its for someone else (laying it aside Mark 7:7-8 ) than for who He said it was for Mar 2:27 Isa 56:6 The commandments came in a unit of Ten, nowhere does it say only one of the commandments is for Jews- Christ in His own words told us who the Sabbath is made for everyone. I believe it’s best to let God be God to define His own covenant and what it entails Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 Deut 5:22. Jesus said not a jot or tittle can pass, which would obviously includes the one commandment that most has forgotten that He said to Remember that is holy, blessed and sanctified by our Creator..

God did establish a New Covenant- He took His laws- the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 and placed them from being written on stone, to writing in the heart of the NC believer 2 Cor 3:3 Heb 8:10 -why we see Sabbath keeping throughout the entire Bible and in the New Heaven and New Earth.

No where in the entire bible says the Sabbath is the Jewish Sabbath. God claimed it as His- My holy day, the holy day of the Lord, thus saith the Lord Isa58:13 meaning there is no other, just a counterfeit leading people away from obedience to what God said. The Sabbath is a commandment no different than the commandment to only worshiping God and not steal from our neighbor.

God has given us everything, so our response back to Him should be one of love by obedience to His commandments. If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3. God spoke His commandments, God personally wrote them, they are His Testimony Exo 31:18 claimed them as His commandments Exo 20:6 our response should be to do what He ask because we love Him.

When you start avoiding mixed fabrics and putting a mezuzah on your doorpost, then come back to me.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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"Brothers and sisters" would be siblings.

So then Jesus is the child of Joseph and Mary? That's the only way Jesus' siblings could be full siblings. If that's how you want to read "brothers and sisters" as meaning full siblings.

Otherwise here are the alternatives:

They are half siblings (they share one parent, Mary)
They are step siblings (they don't share parents, but are legally related through Joseph's marriage to Mary, thus they are Joseph's children but not born of Mary)
They are relatives.

In Greek, any of these meanings is possible.

If you want to present the argument of a dogmatic meaning--that they must be the biological offspring of Mary and Joseph and thus half-siblings--then the burden of proof rests on you. Merely pointing out that they are siblings isn't sufficient to demonstrate what you are arguing.

My position is that I don't know, and it's not my business. I neither confess nor reject Mary's perpetual virginity. I consider it an ancient pious opinion of the Church, but I myself am entirely agnostic on the subject. What Mary and Joseph did or didn't do after Jesus was born isn't my business, and Scripture doesn't tell me.

The Bible doesn't say. That's the point.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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SabbathBlessings

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When you start avoiding mixed fabrics and putting a mezuzah on your doorpost, then come back to me.

-CryptoLutheran
Many of the law of Moses was meant for the Israelites during the trial of the wilderness. There is nothing in the NC about mixing fabrics, but the Sabbath in the NC is still a commandment of God Luke 23:56 that remains for the people of God Heb4:9NIV

The Ten Commandments are God's commandments Exo 20:6 Deut 4:13 and meant for God's people to keep. His version, not what man changed we were warned about Dan 7:25

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
 
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Jamdoc

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So then Jesus is the child of Joseph and Mary? That's the only way Jesus' siblings could be full siblings. If that's how you want to read "brothers and sisters" as meaning full siblings.

Otherwise here are the alternatives:

They are half siblings (they share one parent, Mary)
They are step siblings (they don't share parents, but are legally related through Joseph's marriage to Mary, thus they are Joseph's children but not born of Mary)
They are relatives.

In Greek, any of these meanings is possible.

If you want to present the argument of a dogmatic meaning--that they must be the biological offspring of Mary and Joseph and thus half-siblings--then the burden of proof rests on you. Merely pointing out that they are siblings isn't sufficient to demonstrate what you are arguing.

My position is that I don't know, and it's not my business. I neither confess nor reject Mary's perpetual virginity. I consider it an ancient pious opinion of the Church, but I myself am entirely agnostic on the subject. What Mary and Joseph did or didn't do after Jesus was born isn't my business, and Scripture doesn't tell me.

The Bible doesn't say. That's the point.

-CryptoLutheran
Half siblings.

It's only when you want to put a doctrine before what the bible says (IE Mary's perpetual virginity) that you get something like "oh they're not blood related" or "oh they're 2nd cousins" John the Baptist was Jesus' cousin and he is not referred to by the onlookers as Jesus' "brother" but James is.

a plain reading, after having read the first couple chapters of Matthew, would indicate that they'd be half siblings, having Mary as their mother and Joseph as their Father while Jesus had Mary as His mother and the Holy Spirit as His Father.

If you don't take extrabiblical teachings/doctrines into play, that is the conclusion you come to. Forcing a doctrine into the bible is probably not the best way to go.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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Its not my point its Scripture
Except for the parts that shows the devil is completely involved in sin IN MAN.

Mark 4:15, 1 John 3:8 and a myriad of examples of devils in people that Jesus dealt with in the Gospels

Believers who haven't figured out yet that we are tempted internally by the tempter have merely lost their way.

Believers who try to justify the entirety of themselves also forget the pesky little fact that no one can justify the tempter operating in our own sorry hides. 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:14.
Sin is of the person, under the influence of the devil.
Well, I guess we can entertain your circular logic, trying to claim it's just the person, but not just the person.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Except for the parts that shows the devil is completely involved in sin IN MAN.

Mark 4:15, 1 John 3:8 and a myriad of examples of devils in people that Jesus dealt with in the Gospels

Believers who haven't figured out yet that we are tempted internally by the tempter have merely lost their way.

Believers who try to justify the entirety of themselves also forget the pesky little fact that no one can justify the tempter operating in our own sorry hides. 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:14.
As I said, sin is of the devil, no doubt, but its a matter of who is bigger in our life. The devil or God. I believe our God is bigger to keep us from sin, than the devil is to keep us in sin. Its all about choices.

If in Christ, He will always give us a way of escape from temptation and sin.

1 Cor 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

James 4:7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

So if we are yielding ourselves to sin, than I would recommend more time in His word and in prayer asking Christ's help in overcoming. Theres lot of Scripture that speaks of this and how to do so. Through Christ we can overcome, just as Christ did Heb 4:15 But sadly as the Scripture states, many like their sins more than their love for Jesus to seek His help in overcoming and forsaking their sins
Well, I guess we can entertain your circular logic, trying to claim it's just the person, but not just the person.
The individual makes a choice on who they choose to yield themselves to. I do not think standing before Christ on Judgement Day saying its all the devils fault is going to work- the devil deceived 1/3 of the holy angels, not all of them just like he will not deceive all of us, but the majority. Mat 7:13-14 Christ gave us another option of who to yield ourselves to Rom 6:16 John 14:6 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22. If we have no choice, no way to control ourselves from temptation and sin and its all the devils fault, than there would be no point of the trial we are in today, just as those before us. Heb 3:7-19 Heb 4:11.

Christ tells us there is a people who overcomes, I believe Him.

Rev 21:7 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside....Rev 22:15
 
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